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> did PED'S do pac in???, i don't think so...
BigDDatHomey
post Dec 12 2012, 05:01 PM
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PEDs or.not...it was a well timed shot. Watch the replay and watch JMM pause for a split second, keep his distance when Pac came in with a little movement backwards, then he launched the counter. It was beautiful and he used Mannys aggression against him.

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BigDDatHomey
post Dec 12 2012, 05:03 PM
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Speaking of whether he is finished or not..remember what Teddy always says...you'll never forget being put to sleep and youre never the same.
He didn't just get knocked.down...he got put to sleep...he got Deebo'd. Knocked totally da f#+%- out.

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daprofessor
post Dec 12 2012, 05:16 PM
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QUOTE (BigDDatHomey @ Dec 12 2012, 05:03 PM) *
Speaking of whether he is finished or not..remember what Teddy always says...you'll never forget being put to sleep and youre never the same.
He didn't just get knocked.down...he got put to sleep...he got Deebo'd. Knocked totally da f#+%- out.


i don't agree with that.

i think when a fighter takes a sustained beating and then gets ko'd...it's more detrimental to his psyche....and definitely much more difficult to come back from.

pac, like duran....and paul williams....and a few others that were put to sleep by single shots, will chalk this up as 'the one i didn't see coming' and it may even force him to focus on defense some.

only time will tell.
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daprofessor
post Dec 12 2012, 05:18 PM
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QUOTE (VJones @ Dec 12 2012, 03:13 PM) *
Precisely. I think the mythology built around Manny is making everyone a little batty and perhaps overly suspicious (okay and sure, Heredia's past transgressions don't help, but people, this is boxing...by nature, this sport has attracted some of the shadiest of characters! Find me someone clean (of character) in boxing and ill sell you a story! Even HBO's commentators have had run ins with the legal system. Boxing's just a business that attracts dirt. Simple as that. But a person should be innocent until PROVEN gulity. And if one's past (mistakes) is the litmus to who a person currently is, then many of us are in trouble!)

Manny Pacquioa is a fighter who has suffered knockouts before (granted its been a while), has been getting beat down by "bigger" men for the past few years (ruptured ear drum, battered face, broken ribs,etc. -- compliments of Cotto, Marg, and Clottey), has been staggered badly in previous fights by Juanma (and delightfully, by that sam damn punch), and to boot, he went back to that same overly aggressive style, forgetting that agression is a two-edged sword especially when facing a master adjustor/counter-puncher like JMM. It was only a matter of time, people. This is JMM's season. He is a scientist in the ring. You can literally see him thinking and setting things up. The HBO cheerleaders and those who bought into the myth of Pac's invincibility saw Marquez as vulnerable after that flash knock down in the 5th, when he seemed to hurt his leg or knee....but I swear I could hear the 'click' of Marquez figuring Manny out. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) That overly-aggressive energy is perfectly suited for a counter-puncher, who's definitive aim is to use your energy against you. So Manny helped himself to that lullaby.

Oh Freddie Roach, why can't you teach defense and technique?? Smh.

Here's the other thing, let's not let this new (and yes, important) look at PEDs in the sport of boxing cause us to call "steroids" and insinuate illegalities every time a boxer looks "bigger" or "better". (JMM actually was only a pound heavier than a year ago at weigh-in, so while he looked more shredded and focused in certain areas, he wasn't actually bigger per say.)

Fact: there are plenty perfectly legal designer supplements (legal drugs, some of which were once illegal but are now governed by FDA) that give similar and sometimes equal boosts to anabolic steroids without currently known negative effects.

I'm a former athlete (track, basketball, martial arts). At the height of my competitive years, supplements like creatine, chromium, and other vitamins and minerals were staples in my fitness program. And while I definitely had to do the work and be genetically pre-disposed to good muscular structure, I can't deny the boost that sports medicine has given to athletes.

Bottom line: nothing at all nefarious about a veteran boxer dedicated for 25+ years, with an already high knocket record (similiar and equal to Pac's btw), building his strength with new science and undoubtly designer supplements, and knocking out an overly aggressive opponent. If JMM had knocked out anyone else in the boxing universe except Manny Pacquiao, nobody would utter a breath of suspicion.


great post...and exactly my thought as i watched marquez recuperate from the knockdown.
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checkleft
post Dec 12 2012, 05:37 PM
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I didn't really think it was that bad of a knockdown, sort of caught off balance and by surprise.
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daprofessor
post Dec 12 2012, 08:15 PM
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QUOTE (checkleft @ Dec 12 2012, 05:37 PM) *
I didn't really think it was that bad of a knockdown, sort of caught off balance and by surprise.


which knock down? pac or jmm?
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Plah
post Dec 12 2012, 10:00 PM
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QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 12 2012, 09:15 PM) *
which knock down? pac or jmm?

I think he was talking about the KD Pac gave in round 5
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checkleft
post Dec 13 2012, 02:23 AM
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QUOTE (Plah @ Dec 12 2012, 11:00 PM) *
I think he was talking about the KD Pac gave in round 5


Yes sir
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daprofessor
post Dec 13 2012, 03:59 AM
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QUOTE (checkleft @ Dec 13 2012, 02:23 AM) *
Yes sir


pac busted marquez up a little with that knock down.
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MaxPayne
post Dec 13 2012, 05:56 AM
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Time for a basic Biology discussion.

A man stops growing in his mid-20's. He reaches peak physical strength in his late 20's. He maintains that strength into his early 30's. From age 35 onward, your testosterone levels fall off and you precipitously lose the athletic ability that you had in your peak years of 27 through 31 or so.

There's a reason why in most sports, people start to fall off from their early 30's onward.

During Marquez's peak years, he was fighting at 126 lbs. This weight class represents the height of his fully grown athletic abilities.

The idea that through weight straining and maintaining a diet, a man can transform his body works in the case of a growing man, who has a frame that is not fully filled and has room to grow, so to speak. This is why athletes can put on 10 - 15 pounds of muscle and gain a lot of strength. A younger body is also able to work out for extended periods of time, as your ability to heal from the weight-training is still great.

As you get older, you lose the ability to recover. Your metabolism slows down. The time taken to heal from injuries gets longer and longer.

There is simply no way that after a certain age, in the sport of boxing, that a man can gain the power needed to hurt naturally larger men.

Marquez fought Pacquiao 3 times before this most recent fights. In all of those fights, he hit Pacquiao with clean, precise and powerful right hand shots. Pacquiao was badly wobbled on several occasions.

However, he never went down and was never hurt to the point of being finished by a barrage of unanswered punches.

This is a critical point.

A 39 year old man suddenly gains the power to knock a man down brutally 2 times at a higher weight class than the one which he fought when he was at his athletic peak. Interesting.

A 39 year old man suddenly has a physique that he never had when his natural testosterone levels were at their highest (body musculature is directly related to the testosterone levels in a man's blood).

A 39 year old man suddenly has the ability to embark on an ambitious Cross Fit style training program that is centered around heavy weight training.

A 39 year old man who has never been known as a devastating one punch knockout power type of fighter suddenly does just that to a man who he has never hurt to that point before, and one who has taken the best shots of larger and stronger men than Marquez.

A 39 year old man who has tried fighting at this weight before only to look sluggish and lacking definite power suddenly gains explosive power.

Floyd Mayweather, in his post 130 lbs. boxing career, has seen a considerable drop in his power, which is natural. You reach a certain power level at your peak and then gradually lose that power over time. He has beaten much larger men because of pure skills and technique. Not through power.

Angel Heredia can say whatever he wants. In this day and age, testing standards are entire generations behind what is available for abuse. Nowadays, people don't even use "steroids". After all, why would you, when you can easily acquire so many steroid pre-cursors that start the process on a much more natural level (stimulating the body to produce more testosterone instead of artificial testosterone introduction).

Of course they're "confident that we would beat any test". It's because the tests are prehistoric.

The only reason I don't feel a sense of outright injustice is that Pacquiao himself has abused performance enhancing drugs, a claim that I may not be able to definitely prove, but which I am willing to absolutely bet my house on.

But once again, the idea that a man who at the twilight of his career can somehow gain the ability to make a dude who he has never truly hurt before do an incredible mattress commercial impersonation, is laughable at best.
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