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> WBC Demands Rematch, your thoughts?
Allmenjoi8
post Dec 16 2011, 01:12 AM
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QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 15 2011, 08:41 PM) *
Actually, he wont vacate it...Arum will find a way to keep that belt under the TR banner...this situation is far too simple for Bob to not know how to wiggle his way out of it. C'mon, he knocked more than a few fighters back a notch or two, just to protect his own.

...and no, Dawson vs Hopkins wont sell, hence the lackluster numbers for the first fight. Then to add insult to injury, the wack ass ending did its job. How can someone who only buys 2 PPVs a year (if that), scream and holler about this fight selling? ESPECIALLY if they didn't even buy or watch the first one. Really?


Keep shitting on my 2 PPvs. LOL I had to laugh at that. This fight will sell. I promise you. They will pump it to the point I may consider buying it but I am not regardless.
JCC Jr. is not going to fight Sergio I promise you that, he will fake an injury or run Mayor in a Mexican town. It will not happen.

QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 15 2011, 10:06 PM) *
Hahahaha!!! Whatever Cheesey! Does anybody think Martinez will be as effective, being the fact that Chavez will come in at 180 on fight night? Yay? Nay?


Chavez can come in a 200 pounds, it will not make a difference his skill set is still the same. He can't box for crap, hell you hit harder than Chavez. He does not have the skills to beat Sergio or even the movement. 10 round TKO Sergio

This post has been edited by Allmenjoi8: Dec 16 2011, 01:15 AM
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Plah
post Dec 16 2011, 09:16 AM
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Sergio by decapitation (if the fight somehow happens, which I doubt).

Dawson by UD. Then we get to watch Hopkins bitching about it.
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Cheesey1
post Dec 16 2011, 10:29 AM
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QUOTE (Plah @ Dec 16 2011, 09:16 AM) *
Sergio by decapitation (if the fight somehow happens, which I doubt).

Dawson by UD. Then we get to watch Hopkins bitching about it.

"By decapitation" - ha!
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Cheesey1
post Dec 16 2011, 10:34 AM
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I don't think that what they weigh on fight night will make any difference. He grossly outweighed Zbick and still couldn't knock him out, so even if somehow he outweighs Martinez I don't think that it'll matter.
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Seek
post Dec 16 2011, 11:04 AM
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I bought the Hopkins Dawson ppv. That shit was upsetting man. I think they made the right call to demand a rematch. Hopkins better step up and defend his belt. Dawson was comin for his ass. I won't buy it if it's on ppv unless they come up with an AMAZING undercard.

Sulaiman said Chavez Jr. either has to vacate the title or fight Martinez UNLESS the promoters, Arum and Dibella work out a deal. Bob really wants to make Chavez Jr-Cotto. Could it be possible he offers Dibella the winner of that to face Martinez? That would be wild. Imagine Cotto defending the 160 belt against Martinez lol

This post has been edited by Seek: Dec 16 2011, 11:05 AM
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Cshel86
post Dec 16 2011, 11:31 AM
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QUOTE (checkleft @ Dec 16 2011, 12:14 AM) *
He rehydrates to about 175 himself, it will be interesting to see how chavez will react to his power.

He actually rehydrates to 165 (according to his last fight). I dont believe Sergio is a big MW, I think he primarily moved up because he couldn't get fights that he wanted at 54 (if there was even any competition at the time), nobody wanted to fight him at 54, or the first two reasons + the fact that he could grab the MW title and make more money. The Pavlik fight was great, but Pavlik was done at MW, or the brewskies did a number on him (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

QUOTE (checkleft @ Dec 16 2011, 12:14 AM) *
Arum would sooner fake chavez kidnapping than put him in the ring with Martinez.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Let's not rule this out!

QUOTE (Allmenjoi8 @ Dec 16 2011, 01:12 AM) *
JCC Jr. is not going to fight Sergio I promise you that, he will fake an injury or run Mayor in a Mexican town. It will not happen.
Chavez can come in a 200 pounds, it will not make a difference his skill set is still the same. He can't box for crap, hell you hit harder than Chavez. He does not have the skills to beat Sergio or even the movement. 10 round TKO Sergio

Let's not pretend like Chavez is afraid of Sergio, this is all of Arum's work. I dont believe any fighter is afraid to fight another fighter. If thats the case, why fight? Arum will keep Chavez away from opponents who will likely give him too much trouble, or defeat him. If Chavez came in at 200 pounds, he NOR Martinez would be effective in that fight. Last time I checked, effective pressure/stalking was a skill...so if Sergio doesn't get off first, then we may see a different fight. Martinez has the movement, but he will have a tree to chop down that night.

Sergio only comes in at 165 (according to his last bout that Im sure you didn't watch) on fight night, vs Chavez's 180...so this wont be as easy as it seems. Again, Im sure that you didn't watch the Chavez/Zbik fight either, this guy couldn't do anything with Chavez because of the weight and his lack of punching power. Let's ALL please stop making it seem as if Sergio is this world-beater who can knock everybody out. He may won his last few fights by KO/TKO, but c'mon.

People put waaaay too much mustard on the Paul Williams KO. Please! Paul Williams is notoriously known for being lazy with keeping his left hand up. Hell, he was getting caught with the same punch in the first fight (which Im sure you didn't watch either). Who cant knock Paul Williams out at this point of his career? Point is, Sergio isn't a big MW (rehydrating 5 lbs over the official weight is evidence) and Chavez should be a damn super middleweight, but he looks good at knocking around smaller middleweights OR middleweights with no power, that should be Jr.

MWs. Martinez has pop in his punches, but I cant really fly off the handle and say that he just destroys Chavez. Of course you would fly off the handle and say such things, but its evident that you haven't even watched these fights, and if you did, then you didn't even know what to look for. Sounds like you enjoy repeating what everyone else says.
QUOTE (Allmenjoi8 @ Dec 16 2011, 01:12 AM) *
Keep shitting on my 2 PPvs. LOL I had to laugh at that. This fight will sell. I promise you. They will pump it to the point I may consider buying it but I am not regardless.

This fight WILL NOT sell! At this point, Im convinced that you have the slightest clue how PPVs work. Chad Dawson was LUCKY to headline a PPV, he definitely isn't a PPV draw. Hopkins has sold some PPVs in his career, I wont go as far as saying that he slaps a million buys the face everytime he headlines a PPV, but he's sold a decent amount, given his "hate him or love him" personality and fighting style. Just do yourself a favor and not even speak about whether a PPV will sell or not, had you posted this months ago, you'd been in the quicksand already.

QUOTE (Cheesey1 @ Dec 16 2011, 10:34 AM) *
I don't think that what they weigh on fight night will make any difference. He grossly outweighed Zbick and still couldn't knock him out, so even if somehow he outweighs Martinez I don't think that it'll matter.

He hardly went for head shots in the Zbik fight...he was doing mostly body work. Chavez knew he could beat this dude, and his dad was getting all of that praise that night (as he should've), so Jr. was doing it Sr. style with body shots. He honestly could've had Zbik outta there a early.
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Cshel86
post Dec 16 2011, 11:50 AM
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QUOTE (Seek @ Dec 16 2011, 11:04 AM) *
I bought the Hopkins Dawson ppv. That shit was upsetting man. I think they made the right call to demand a rematch. Hopkins better step up and defend his belt. Dawson was comin for his ass. I won't buy it if it's on ppv unless they come up with an AMAZING undercard.

Sulaiman said Chavez Jr. either has to vacate the title or fight Martinez UNLESS the promoters, Arum and Dibella work out a deal. Bob really wants to make Chavez Jr-Cotto. Could it be possible he offers Dibella the winner of that to face Martinez? That would be wild. Imagine Cotto defending the 160 belt against Martinez lol

Dawson/Hopkins had great undercards, but as you said, the main event was upsetting. If you bought the first one, then Im sure you'll buy the rematch. I had my doubts before I bought the first one, but it actually turned out to be decent...aside from the crappy ending.

There just may be a possibility that this title could be vacated...since you brought up the promoters working out a deal. THIS will be the hardest part, because DiBella publicly talks shit about Arum and let's the world know that he hates his guts. There may have been a few DiBella/Top Ranks fights this year that I may not have known about, but when we speak of throwing their cash cows in there...thats where the petty bickering begins with these two. Gotta love DiBella for putting Arum on blast though (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I dont see Cotto fighting Chavez...can you say, massacre? Waaaay too much of a height and weight difference. Even a Cotto Martinez fight may be a bit too much for Cotto. Between the two...a Martinez fight would be more likely, but Cotto would have to deal with that movement, power, and reach advantage of Martinez. I could even see Martinez coming down to 54 for this one, but no one wants to see Cotto bloated and slower at MW. That Chavez fight should be waaaay out of the question.

Cotto;
H: 5'7
R: 67"
Weight at MW...160 on the head at the weigh-in...a bloated and slow 165 on fight night.

Martinez:
H: 5'10
R: 75"
Weight at MW...160 on the head at the weigh-in...a healthy rehydrated 165 on fight night.

Chavez Jr:
H: 6'0
R: 75"
Weight at MW...160 on the head at the weigh-in...an enormous 180 on fight night.

So yes, I could see a Cotto/Martinez fight at 154, but not a Cotto vs Martinez or Chavez Jr. at MW.
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Seek
post Dec 16 2011, 12:46 PM
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People are still hating on Chavez Jr. This kid comes to fight and he has showed a lot of discipline and improvement in his last few fights. I was surprised to see him fight tall and box on the outside vs Manfredo. Normally he never takes a step backwards and works you on the inside. Great body puncher like his pops. He's doesn't have ko power but he's got good power and killer instinct. I hope Chavez Jr. does step up and fight Martinez because that fight can go either way. Martinez has impressed me lately with his most recent wins more so than his freak ko of williams and demolition of Pavlik. Those wins are highly overrated imo. It's very silly to think Martinez would blow Chavez Jr. out the water. Chavez Jr. has power and speed you must respect, size height and weight advantage, a great chin and a great heart like his dad. That's dangerous
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Cshel86
post Dec 16 2011, 01:02 PM
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QUOTE (Seek @ Dec 16 2011, 12:46 PM) *
People are still hating on Chavez Jr. This kid comes to fight and he has showed a lot of discipline and improvement in his last few fights. I was surprised to see him fight tall and box on the outside vs Manfredo. Normally he never takes a step backwards and works you on the inside. Great body puncher like his pops. He's doesn't have ko power but he's got good power and killer instinct. I hope Chavez Jr. does step up and fight Martinez because that fight can go either way. Martinez has impressed me lately with his most recent wins more so than his freak ko of williams and demolition of Pavlik. Those wins are highly overrated imo. It's very silly to think Martinez would blow Chavez Jr. out the water. Chavez Jr. has power and speed you must respect, size height and weight advantage, a great chin and a great heart like his dad. That's dangerous

Thank you! Im not a big Chavez fan by any measure, but damn. Martinez performs great and is a monster in his own right. Seriously, his performances have been pretty good, but his opponent's experience has been somewhat limited. Paul Williams is just a sucker for a left hand anyhow. I wont go off and start talking down on Sergio's victories, but he's been in there with "mandatories" who have decent records, but their level of opposition is not in the level of Sergio.

Chavez Jr. still has work to do, but folks are making it seem like he is just gonna go in there and lay down for Sergio , or come in head first and swinging for the fences. Fuck it, Im almost in this wild state of mind that I want to bet on Chavez, just because. I mean, Sergio moves more than any of Chavez's recent opponents have, and he has pretty good pop in his punches, but to say that he will decapitiate Chavez, is putting waaaay to much mustard on it.
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Seek
post Dec 16 2011, 02:21 PM
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QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 16 2011, 02:02 PM) *
Thank you! Im not a big Chavez fan by any measure, but damn. Martinez performs great and is a monster in his own right. Seriously, his performances have been pretty good, but his opponent's experience has been somewhat limited. Paul Williams is just a sucker for a left hand anyhow. I wont go off and start talking down on Sergio's victories, but he's been in there with "mandatories" who have decent records, but their level of opposition is not in the level of Sergio.

Chavez Jr. still has work to do, but folks are making it seem like he is just gonna go in there and lay down for Sergio , or come in head first and swinging for the fences. Fuck it, Im almost in this wild state of mind that I want to bet on Chavez, just because. I mean, Sergio moves more than any of Chavez's recent opponents have, and he has pretty good pop in his punches, but to say that he will decapitiate Chavez, is putting waaaay to much mustard on it.


I wouldn't blame you if you bet on Chavez Jr. It's that close of a fight. Toss up for me.
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