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> Poll bitches: Do you think Guerrero deserves a shot at Floyd?
Does Guerrero deserve a shot at Floyd?
Vote suckas
Guerrero needs to beat a top 5 WW. [ 15 ] ** [88.24%]
Guerrero has done enough and deserves a shot [ 2 ] ** [11.76%]
Total Votes: 17
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Cshel86
post Nov 28 2012, 01:42 PM
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QUOTE (daprofessor @ Nov 28 2012, 01:24 PM) *
he packed the house in san jose and out in ontario. if the fight is in vegas...he has plenty of fans that will make the trip from the bay and socal. i actually think robert has more fans than ortiz who is a transplant while guerrero is a local boy.

I have to see about those ticket sells, because I find that hard to believe. I doubt if anybody outside of the Bay Area really knows who Robert is. I TOTALLY disagree about Guerrero having more fans than Victor Ortiz, sorry, but that dog aint huntin' over here.

You cant possibly think that more people know Robert, than any of Floyd's recent opponents. You can walk out on the street right now and ask people who's the guy that Mayweather two-pieced or sucker punched last September, and I'm sure they 'd know.

It's not that don't feel Robert is all that worthy of a Mayweather fight, but let's face it, Floyd isn't one of those beloved fighters that does HUGE gates, regardless of who he fights...Oscar still holds that record.

Put it this way, if Manny (the world's most beloved fighter) only cracked 700K buys against Clottey (1st fight in the Cowboys stadium, HIGHLY promoted), or Bradley (when Pacquiao truly settled as a household name), then Floyd needs to be extra careful about his opponent selection. Robert may be a nose dive in sales with Floyd...hell, I'm surprised that many people bought the Marquez fight, but that was a "comeback" fight.

You got me turned on to Bradley, but I think this Guerrero transition will be a tough road. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

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daprofessor
post Nov 28 2012, 01:56 PM
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QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Nov 28 2012, 02:42 PM) *
I have to see about those ticket sells, because I find that hard to believe. I doubt if anybody outside of the Bay Area really knows who Robert is. I TOTALLY disagree about Guerrero having more fans than Victor Ortiz, sorry, but that dog aint huntin' over here.

You cant possibly think that more people know Robert, than any of Floyd's recent opponents. You can walk out on the street right now and ask people who's the guy that Mayweather two-pieced or sucker punched last September, and I'm sure they 'd know.

It's not that don't feel Robert is all that worthy of a Mayweather fight, but let's face it, Floyd isn't one of those beloved fighters that does HUGE gates, regardless of who he fights...Oscar still holds that record.

Put it this way, if Manny (the world's most beloved fighter) only cracked 700K buys against Clottey (1st fight in the Cowboys stadium, HIGHLY promoted), or Bradley (when Pacquiao truly settled as a household name), then Floyd needs to be extra careful about his opponent selection. Robert may be a nose dive in sales with Floyd...hell, I'm surprised that many people bought the Marquez fight, but that was a "comeback" fight.

You got me turned on to Bradley, but I think this Guerrero transition will be a tough road. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)


it's not that far off! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) u'll see the light soon. after the aydin and berto fights...i think guerrero is bigger here in cali than ortiz was before he fought floyd. a lot of ppl were turned off to ortiz because he's weird and just said a bunch of dumb shit. guerrero, with his story and good guy image has been lurking for quite sometime...and i think he's now coming into his full potential. he's riding a serious wave and it's just a matter of time. if the fight with floyd materializes soon....look for it to be bigger than floyd/ortiz and definitely way more competitive.
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sduck
post Nov 28 2012, 02:11 PM
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QUOTE (daprofessor @ Nov 28 2012, 01:17 PM) *
i think cotto gave floyd the toughest fight in his career period. trout brings nothing to the table that cotto hasn't seen or dealt with. he hasn't really taken any beatings since the pac fight...i think he should beat trout.

You don't even have to imply its your opinion, since Floyd stated it himself. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Nov 28 2012, 01:20 PM) *
difficulty is probably too strong a word...but southpaws definitely make him uncomfortable and have landed good shots on him. *see demarcus corley, zab judah and ortiz before the headbutt.* guerrero will definitely slide a few shots in on floyd and he will bang that fragile rib cage.

For most fighters it's real easy to jump to conclusions on them (like after watching one fight or two), but when it comes to Floyd, it takes a lot of research to jump to conclusions on him, dude is way too complex of a fighter. People find it evident, but I don't think there's enough evidence to completely say he struggles against southpaws. He's practically dominated every single one he's fought, actually knocking out some of them, while only falling short to knocking out the others (A funny "fun fact" is that the second opponent of Floyd's career, though only evident of 4 rounds, was also a southpaw, who being a total bum, did better than all the rest). Some of the southpaws did land some good shots, Corley landing the most effective shot anyone ever has, arguably between Shane Mosley. Corley is also not even the best southpaw Floyd has fought, not even close. There's too many variables involved to conclude on this "myth" of Floyd vs southpaws. Of course Guerrero is going to get at least one good shot in, just like most of Floyd's other opponents.
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Nov 28 2012, 01:22 PM) *
it wasn't just zab. it was the spadafora sparring...his pops making the same admission and stating that floyd should avoid southpaws at all costs...corley...and even ortiz.

Floyd Sr. really thinks so? Roger thinks it's bullshit, and I don't know what Jeff thinks.
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Nov 28 2012, 01:24 PM) *
he packed the house in san jose and out in ontario. if the fight is in vegas...he has plenty of fans that will make the trip from the bay and socal. i actually think robert has more fans than ortiz who is a transplant while guerrero is a local boy.

Guerrero definitely has charisma. He should be able to sell better than Ortiz. I also think there was more hype about Berto/Guerrero than Berto/Ortiz.
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sduck
post Nov 28 2012, 02:20 PM
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QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Nov 28 2012, 01:42 PM) *
I have to see about those ticket sells, because I find that hard to believe. I doubt if anybody outside of the Bay Area really knows who Robert is. I TOTALLY disagree about Guerrero having more fans than Victor Ortiz, sorry, but that dog aint huntin' over here.

You cant possibly think that more people know Robert, than any of Floyd's recent opponents. You can walk out on the street right now and ask people who's the guy that Mayweather two-pieced or sucker punched last September, and I'm sure they 'd know.

It's not that don't feel Robert is all that worthy of a Mayweather fight, but let's face it, Floyd isn't one of those beloved fighters that does HUGE gates, regardless of who he fights...Oscar still holds that record.

Put it this way, if Manny (the world's most beloved fighter) only cracked 700K buys against Clottey (1st fight in the Cowboys stadium, HIGHLY promoted), or Bradley (when Pacquiao truly settled as a household name), then Floyd needs to be extra careful about his opponent selection. Robert may be a nose dive in sales with Floyd...hell, I'm surprised that many people bought the Marquez fight, but that was a "comeback" fight.

You got me turned on to Bradley, but I think this Guerrero transition will be a tough road. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Well of course not now lol, you got to compare Guerrero to when Ortiz wasn't in the spotlight from being Floyd's opponent. To me it seems like Guerrero has more fans. Mayweather was able to make more PPV buys and revenue with Ortiz than he was with Hatton and Marquez. The Marquez fight did so poorly that not even the stadium was completely sold. Ortiz's persona was virtually boring, while Guerrero is a type of guy that talks shit, isn't a prick, with a "lets get it on, I wanna fight anyone" attitude. He also has a style of fighting that pleases most people. The dude is made to sell revenue.

This post has been edited by sduck: Nov 28 2012, 02:22 PM
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Cshel86
post Nov 28 2012, 02:47 PM
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QUOTE (sduck @ Nov 28 2012, 02:20 PM) *
Well of course not now lol, you got to compare Guerrero to when Ortiz wasn't in the spotlight from being Floyd's opponent. To me it seems like Guerrero has more fans. Mayweather was able to make more PPV buys and revenue with Ortiz than he was with Hatton and Marquez. The Marquez fight did so poorly that not even the stadium was completely sold. Ortiz's persona was virtually boring, while Guerrero is a type of guy that talks shit, isn't a prick, with a "lets get it on, I wanna fight anyone" attitude. He also has a style of fighting that pleases most people. The dude is made to sell revenue.

Sorry, but Guerrero and revenue should never be in the same sentence again...until further notice, of course. I guess people are forgetting how an up and coming Ortiz sold all of those tickets at the Staples center against an unknown Maidana. How do we all know Maidana so well nowadays? Yep, you got it...because of the Ortiz fight.

Ortiz was being built up as the next Oscar De La Hoya...when was Robert ever a factor around that time? Ortiz is remembered more for his quit job against Maidana, than people will ever know Guerrero for. Hell, Marquez is actually the bigger star of them all, and he and Floyd weasled their way to 1M+ buys. I said that to say that people need to start harping on the whole, "Guerrero's Mexican American", and so on.

Again, Marquez is the bigger star between Ortiz and Guerrero, and he and Floyd sold right at 1.1M buys. That says a lot. Mind you, this was BEFORE the whole Floyd vs Pac situation got out of hand. That actually started closer to the Pac/Cotto fight, and went into full overdrive after Pac stopped Cotto.

Ortiz was still being built up by GBP (despite the Maidana loss), and had was almost on his way to being dumped off. Then came the Berto fight, which he won in an impressive fashion, he was the FIRST to defeat Berto, and became champion. He looked to be a formidable opponent for anybody in the WW division.

When Floyd chose Ortiz, it seemed like a HUGE challenge for a guy coming off of a long layoff. So again, Floyd got us with the whole "comeback fight" mess, and on top of that, let's be real, Mayweather/Ortiz sold more than Mayweather/Marquez because at that point, the whole world was sucked into the "Mayweather is going to fight Pacquiao next" nonsense.

That's the ONLY reason Mayweather/Ortiz sold more than Mayweather/Pacquiao...the ONLY reason. Pacquiao/Mayweather was hardly as big of an issue, when Floyd fought JMM, than it was when he fought Ortiz. So, with that in mind, Guerrero has some heavy lifting to do, because seriously, nobody knows who this dude is. I believe Broner/DeMarco just had over 1M views...not sure about ticket sales, but TV dates usually win over the casual fans.

Robert not being able to stop a blind Berto, is NOT impressive. If it was Pac/Diaz-type beating, then he'd impress casual fans, but all of that smothering is a turnoff. Im a hardcore fan, and even I almost wanted to change the channel. Lol

And yes, Guerrero is a prick, and he knows it. Nobody's gonna be an asshole like he was during Berto's portion of the interview, then decide to jump in again and thank his Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Lol. Sorry, but Guerrero has some heavy lifting to do. The only way I see this happening, is if Floyd decides to fight twice this year, and its been a WHILE since he did that.
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sduck
post Nov 28 2012, 04:04 PM
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QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Nov 28 2012, 02:47 PM) *
Sorry, but Guerrero and revenue should never be in the same sentence again...until further notice, of course. I guess people are forgetting how an up and coming Ortiz sold all of those tickets at the Staples center against an unknown Maidana. How do we all know Maidana so well nowadays? Yep, you got it...because of the Ortiz fight.

That would be a decent example but Ortiz was shunned upon by the result of the Maidana fight. His image in boxing was forever tarnished, regardless of the redemption from his victory over Berto.

QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Nov 28 2012, 02:47 PM) *
Ortiz was being built up as the next Oscar De La Hoya...when was Robert ever a factor around that time? Ortiz is remembered more for his quit job against Maidana, than people will ever know Guerrero for. Hell, Marquez is actually the bigger star of them all, and he and Floyd weasled their way to 1M+ buys. I said that to say that people need to start harping on the whole, "Guerrero's Mexican American", and so on.

Well he's a factor now, so... Nah, no way, you just hatin lol. I'm sure more people try to forget that than remember it lol

QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Nov 28 2012, 02:47 PM) *
Again, Marquez is the bigger star between Ortiz and Guerrero, and he and Floyd sold right at 1.1M buys. That says a lot. Mind you, this was BEFORE the whole Floyd vs Pac situation got out of hand. That actually started closer to the Pac/Cotto fight, and went into full overdrive after Pac stopped Cotto.

I see what you're saying...but it's also in theory... Pac was already making headlines on a potential fight with Mayweather before he fought Cotto, because of his sensational performances against DLH and Hatton. Those two fights were actually mainly why people got so hype of the Mayweather-Pacquiao showdown. Cotto was one of Pac's best selling fights, while Marquez was one of Floyd's worst, speaking in post-DLH terms. And Floyd was already still established as the PPV king at that time.

QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Nov 28 2012, 02:47 PM) *
Ortiz was still being built up by GBP (despite the Maidana loss), and had was almost on his way to being dumped off. Then came the Berto fight, which he won in an impressive fashion, he was the FIRST to defeat Berto, and became champion. He looked to be a formidable opponent for anybody in the WW division.

Ortiz's image was also still tarnished because of the Maidana fight. Though still being a considerable opponent, most people still doubted him vs Floyd.

QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Nov 28 2012, 02:47 PM) *
When Floyd chose Ortiz, it seemed like a HUGE challenge for a guy coming off of a long layoff. So again, Floyd got us with the whole "comeback fight" mess, and on top of that, let's be real, Mayweather/Ortiz sold more than Mayweather/Marquez because at that point, the whole world was sucked into the "Mayweather is going to fight Pacquiao next" nonsense.

Youth, champion, and Floyd's layoff had the only things going for the fight. Ortiz's persona sucked. No way, that reason has to be completely false. The Mayweather-Pacquiao fight lost a lot of luster by then. Mayweather's image was also very tarnished from the result of the fight failing to happen. The Ortiz/Mayweather fight even generating close to that much revenue is a mystery short of marketing.

QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Nov 28 2012, 02:47 PM) *
That's the ONLY reason Mayweather/Ortiz sold more than Mayweather/Pacquiao...the ONLY reason. Pacquiao/Mayweather was hardly as big of an issue, when Floyd fought JMM, than it was when he fought Ortiz. So, with that in mind, Guerrero has some heavy lifting to do, because seriously, nobody knows who this dude is. I believe Broner/DeMarco just had over 1M views...not sure about ticket sales, but TV dates usually win over the casual fans.

Uhh, anybody that follows boxing knows who Guerrero is at this point. If you're mainly implying the casual fans, especially the extreme ones, nobody knew Ortiz either.

QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Nov 28 2012, 02:47 PM) *
Robert not being able to stop a blind Berto, is NOT impressive. If it was Pac/Diaz-type beating, then he'd impress casual fans, but all of that smothering is a turnoff. Im a hardcore fan, and even I almost wanted to change the channel. Lol

Technically, anyone beating Berto (a b-level fighter) isn't impressive. I've read a lot of different opinions, so I have no idea.

QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Nov 28 2012, 02:47 PM) *
And yes, Guerrero is a prick, and he knows it. Nobody's gonna be an asshole like he was during Berto's portion of the interview, then decide to jump in again and thank his Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Lol. Sorry, but Guerrero has some heavy lifting to do. The only way I see this happening, is if Floyd decides to fight twice this year, and its been a WHILE since he did that.
For people that are not really into confidence or trash-talk, then yeah he probably is a prick. But he's not the kind of prick like Floyd. You can also consider that many people would actually enjoy confident trash-talk against a well disliked/hated person like Floyd.

Oh god, that took so long to finish, I think I need more coffee or somethin, wow.
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Cshel86
post Nov 28 2012, 06:38 PM
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You made some decent points, but seriously, people dont even know who Robert Guerrero is...even AFTER the Berto fight. People once again realized who Ortiz was after beating Berto, which is past tense for people knowing him before hand.

It doesn't matter if his image was tarnished after the Maidana loss...point is, he actually had an image to be tarnished to begin with. Guerrero and "image" don't even belong in the same sentence...dude truly IS a ghost. That's not hating, that's just the truth.

The weird thing is, people across the net are probably looking at pictures of Berto's eyes swollen shut, and it's sad because Berto may actually be THAT much more known for looking like a Star Wars creature, than Guerrero would be for beating him. When I seriously say that the fight lacked entertainment value...it did.

Berto walked away with more than an ass kicking after the Ortiz fight...he left with more respect and an enhanced fan base. It's not like Ortiz went in there and fleeced him over the course of 12 rounds. Hell, Ortiz was about 2-3 punches away from being stopped in that fight. So that proved that Berto wasn't just a trash hype job.

Robert, even without being knocked down, did a poor man's job of what Ortiz did. I'm still not understanding how a guy who was obviously bigger and faster, not able to put away a guy who couldn't see anything. I'm still stuck there. Berto was still able to duck & slip shots, and land some of his own. So that raised more questions about Guerrero, than it actually answered.

Oh yeah, I don't see how Floyd was considered the PPV after the Oscar fight, when he went on to sale on about 900k buys against Hatton. Dont get me wrong, those are good numbers, but a PPV King status should exceed 1M buys, ESPECIALLY after you just sold 2.4M with Oscar. So him cracking 1M buys against JMM, was wit Marquez's help...who is more popular than Ortiz and Guerrero.

Trust me, most of those buys in the Ortiz fight had a lot to do with people hoping that the Pacquiao fight was next. Floyd DID say, "And yes Pacquiao, you're next" during the press conference. NOW, to us who know what's going on, that's a big crock of shit on Floyd's part, but to the casual fans (who actually buy more of these PPVs than us hardcore fans), that was a sure as shit reason to buy it and see how he performed after a 14-month layoff against a strong Mexican American who had JUST beat an undefeated Berto and became champ.

I'll go back to my point of casual fans being the bulk of these PPV cards. Really, us as hardcore fans, what in the hell do we need to be bothered with all of the pressers, commercials, open workouts, etc. while a fight is being built up? We already know what's going on, that shit is done for PUBLICITY, to increase the buy rate.

As soon as a PPV is announced, I already know who most (or all) of the fighters are on the card, and I have general idea of how the fight will go. Casual fans don't know this, hence why we have to see one highlight reel after another, along with other promotional material. With that in mind, if people don't know who Robert Guerrero is, or they happen to be uninterested in the fight, then the remainder of the casual buyers will buy it because they either want to see Floyd just because, see him lose, or they wanna see if he's still able to pull it off.

Sadly, Guerrero has done the worst possible thing, he hasn't made an identity for himself, and he's trying too hard to find a fight that will get him noticed. All fighters should do the latter, but he was supposed to go out there and put Berto on a stretcher last Saturday. He needs to do what Martinez did...take on all comers, fleece 'em, and call out the big names while doing so. Robert can't just piss way up and down in weight classes, and hope for something big to happen. Floyd already called out a smaller MARKETABLE fighter to jump up 2 weight classes and fight him...and his name wasn't Robert Guerrero.
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daprofessor
post Nov 28 2012, 06:46 PM
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QUOTE (sduck @ Nov 28 2012, 03:11 PM) *
You don't even have to imply its your opinion, since Floyd stated it himself. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

For most fighters it's real easy to jump to conclusions on them (like after watching one fight or two), but when it comes to Floyd, it takes a lot of research to jump to conclusions on him, dude is way too complex of a fighter. People find it evident, but I don't think there's enough evidence to completely say he struggles against southpaws. He's practically dominated every single one he's fought, actually knocking out some of them, while only falling short to knocking out the others (A funny "fun fact" is that the second opponent of Floyd's career, though only evident of 4 rounds, was also a southpaw, who being a total bum, did better than all the rest). Some of the southpaws did land some good shots, Corley landing the most effective shot anyone ever has, arguably between Shane Mosley. Corley is also not even the best southpaw Floyd has fought, not even close. There's too many variables involved to conclude on this "myth" of Floyd vs southpaws. Of course Guerrero is going to get at least one good shot in, just like most of Floyd's other opponents.

Floyd Sr. really thinks so? Roger thinks it's bullshit, and I don't know what Jeff thinks.

Guerrero definitely has charisma. He should be able to sell better than Ortiz. I also think there was more hype about Berto/Guerrero than Berto/Ortiz.


i agree...but when u take into consideration the amount of orthodox fighters who gave him no problems...compared to the very few southpaw fighters who gave him some problems...it's the closest thing u can call a pattern. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) i wouldn't call it a myth. i think guerrero will get in a lot more than just one good shot. look for this fight to be announced right around the same time as the pac/jmm4 fight.

yes...floyd sr has stated that in the past. roger is going to go along with whatever floyd wants. floyd sr is the best boxing mind of the 3 brothers.

i agree on guerrero's charisma.
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daprofessor
post Nov 28 2012, 06:54 PM
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QUOTE (sduck @ Nov 28 2012, 03:20 PM) *
Well of course not now lol, you got to compare Guerrero to when Ortiz wasn't in the spotlight from being Floyd's opponent. To me it seems like Guerrero has more fans. Mayweather was able to make more PPV buys and revenue with Ortiz than he was with Hatton and Marquez. The Marquez fight did so poorly that not even the stadium was completely sold. Ortiz's persona was virtually boring, while Guerrero is a type of guy that talks shit, isn't a prick, with a "lets get it on, I wanna fight anyone" attitude. He also has a style of fighting that pleases most people. The dude is made to sell revenue.


totally agree with this...
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daprofessor
post Nov 28 2012, 07:01 PM
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QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Nov 28 2012, 03:47 PM) *
Sorry, but Guerrero and revenue should never be in the same sentence again...until further notice, of course. I guess people are forgetting how an up and coming Ortiz sold all of those tickets at the Staples center against an unknown Maidana. How do we all know Maidana so well nowadays? Yep, you got it...because of the Ortiz fight.

Ortiz was being built up as the next Oscar De La Hoya...when was Robert ever a factor around that time? Ortiz is remembered more for his quit job against Maidana, than people will ever know Guerrero for. Hell, Marquez is actually the bigger star of them all, and he and Floyd weasled their way to 1M+ buys. I said that to say that people need to start harping on the whole, "Guerrero's Mexican American", and so on.

Again, Marquez is the bigger star between Ortiz and Guerrero, and he and Floyd sold right at 1.1M buys. That says a lot. Mind you, this was BEFORE the whole Floyd vs Pac situation got out of hand. That actually started closer to the Pac/Cotto fight, and went into full overdrive after Pac stopped Cotto.

Ortiz was still being built up by GBP (despite the Maidana loss), and had was almost on his way to being dumped off. Then came the Berto fight, which he won in an impressive fashion, he was the FIRST to defeat Berto, and became champion. He looked to be a formidable opponent for anybody in the WW division.

When Floyd chose Ortiz, it seemed like a HUGE challenge for a guy coming off of a long layoff. So again, Floyd got us with the whole "comeback fight" mess, and on top of that, let's be real, Mayweather/Ortiz sold more than Mayweather/Marquez because at that point, the whole world was sucked into the "Mayweather is going to fight Pacquiao next" nonsense.

That's the ONLY reason Mayweather/Ortiz sold more than Mayweather/Pacquiao...the ONLY reason. Pacquiao/Mayweather was hardly as big of an issue, when Floyd fought JMM, than it was when he fought Ortiz. So, with that in mind, Guerrero has some heavy lifting to do, because seriously, nobody knows who this dude is. I believe Broner/DeMarco just had over 1M views...not sure about ticket sales, but TV dates usually win over the casual fans.

Robert not being able to stop a blind Berto, is NOT impressive. If it was Pac/Diaz-type beating, then he'd impress casual fans, but all of that smothering is a turnoff. Im a hardcore fan, and even I almost wanted to change the channel. Lol

And yes, Guerrero is a prick, and he knows it. Nobody's gonna be an asshole like he was during Berto's portion of the interview, then decide to jump in again and thank his Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Lol. Sorry, but Guerrero has some heavy lifting to do. The only way I see this happening, is if Floyd decides to fight twice this year, and its been a WHILE since he did that.


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) i get ur hate for guerrero...but i have to stop u on this one...ortiz/maidana only became the headliner because the original main event fell out. ortiz losing that fight lost him a bunch of fans as well because everyone heard his..."i don't deserve to get beat like this..." statement and it was disgraceful in the fans eyes.
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