IPB  

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

 
4 Pages V  < 1 2 3 4 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Money & The Problem
Dolimite
post Dec 29 2012, 05:17 PM
Post #21


Middleweight


Group: Members
Posts: 2,672
Joined: 16-December 12
From: Fresh Coast
Member No.: 13,803



QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 29 2012, 12:42 PM) *
Sorry, but most of the undercards on PPV lack some type of interest...unless you're a harcore fan (like I am) and find the silver lining in the matchups. As it's been mentioned in this thread, all of those "fantasy" fights that guys ask for on PPV cards, will hardly ever happen.

For starters, those type of fights (Canelo/Trout, Gamboa/Broner, Broner/vs the winner of Judah/Garcia) can all make promoters a decent amount of money on a B.A.D. card or a Showtime card. As for PPV, there wouldn't be enough money to shell out to all of those fighters, especially if they're used to making a certain amount.

Look at the Mayweather/Cotto card...Floyd made a whopping $32, Cotto made $8M, Canelo got about $1.2M, Shane got around $600k, and all of the other fighters got about $200k and under. Hell, Quitana and Lattimore got under $100k. See what I mean? PPV gets 50% off the top, promoters get theres, and then the fighters (the last are interchangeable I believe).

Look at the Maidana/Morales PPV card. If Maidana got about $250k and Maidana got about $500k...and that was the main event, so imagine what the undercard fighters got. Even if the budget it big for a Mayweather card, most likely, Floyd's gonna get the lion's share, and everyone else gets what's left.

All of these guys that you say Broner needs to fight (with a name), aren't even big names outside of the boxing community. Hell, Broner isn't a big name outside of the boxing community. He's a big name to us, but not to the public. So a Lundy fight for Broner, would be good for the card. Broner will more than likely take some type of pay cut if Canelo is on the card is well...since Canelo is probably the 2nd or 3rd biggest name on the card (depending on who Floyd's opponent is).

If Canelo looks bad against (but still wins) against a Trout or K-9, then that wouldn't kill a Mayweather fight for him...we know how the sport goes. If you look too good, then you wont get big fights...if you look average or exposed, then the fight is in your hands. You made a point about Canelo needing to look impressive (in order to fight Floyd)...hence the reason he will be fighting somebody who "appears" to be a threat to the public, but not a threat to someone who knows the sport.

Broner will fall in line, if he's on this PPV card. The only promotion that he'll get, is the promotion that Mayweather allows him to have under HIS spotlight, and of course at the weigh-in. We didn't see 24/7 pumping up Canelo/Mosley, while they were pumping up Floyd/Cotto. Again, Broner will have to fall in line here. If anything, Canelo should be more of a help with the numbers this time around, because he fought a NAME (Mosley) on the last Mayweather card months ago, and he will have more promotion in Mexico while the fight is building.

As Professor mentioned about boxing being on network television, MMA is taking the lead now because people want to see blood, guts, no defense, and knockouts. Boxing is waaaay more crafty and tactical, so chances are, you wont see a knockout in every fight. DLH/Mayweather didn't deliver as it was built to, and I remember those promos being all over network tv.

If boxing is gong to be on network television again, fighters with the gift of gab need to be pushed harder. If all of this gutterbutt trash makes the airwaves (because of drama), then surely boxing can have more air time. That makes me question why fighters aren't being promoted more, like on commercials (like subway, Axe, and all of that other mess). Hell, dress a fighter up good, and have him co-host a show of some sort. People need to get used to faces, before they but into it wholeheartedly.



Cshel86 how do movies get pushed? The names in those movies. If you have a movie that can be a great movie have no stars behind them, then 9 out o 10 times that movie no matter how good will go unnoticed. But a movie can suck all the ass in the world but it will make money because if it has all the stars then people will automatically flock to it. Same with boxing the big names bring in the audience. The May 4th can be a great under card. The winner of Garcia and Judah should fight Broner. Neither Judah and Garcia can ask for more than a million let's face that. Broner can barely ask for that much. If Canelo is not on the May 4th under card than that should free up a lot of money. if May does fight Guerrero (I hope he doesn't) than Guerrero may get maybe 4 million, and that is a maybe. So there are possibilities depend on who the opponent of May will be. Now if he fights JMM then the purse will be higher, so we will see. What might can happen if the lower under cards can be featured on network television that way people can get sucked into the event and be introduced to up and coming talent.

Like Professor said, people are trying to re-event the wheel when they do not have to. The blueprint is already there, it just need to be upgraded.

This post has been edited by Dolimite: Dec 29 2012, 05:18 PM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
daprofessor
post Dec 29 2012, 06:22 PM
Post #22


Cruiserweight


Group: Members
Posts: 5,773
Joined: 20-May 11
From: killa kali
Member No.: 12,336



i think the formula is simple....put on great match ups. it doesn't matter who the fighters are when u put on a great match up. in order for this to happen...u have to have a quality match maker who knows boxing. he has to know the styles and how they mesh. he has to be familiar with all the talent out there...the up-and-coming talent...regional talent...etc. there used to be some great match makers out there...now they seem to be a thing of the past. u also need to have a cast of commentators that are savvy enough not to shit on the talent and can point out the finer things happening in a bout. that doesn't mean they shouldn't point out the bullshit when they see it...it's just something as simple as believing the glass is half full instead of half empty.

the other thing they need to do is stop promoting the shit out of fights they know won't produce what the public wants. we, the fans, know when a good one is coming up. tell me how excited u were to hear that corrales/castillo was going to happen? cotto/margarito or berto/ortiz....or matthysse/soto? these are just a small sample of some of the fights that we knew would be great match ups before they even happened. i can point to a shit load of others...but my point is...those are the fights that should be pumped up by the networks because the chances of them delivering on fireworks is almost guaranteed.

when commentators are ringside and a bout comes on that isn't producing the 'fireworks' don't shit on it. take notice...maybe discuss what needs to happen for this fighter to get to the next level...or pay attention to the finer points of boxing and point them out to the viewing public that might not understand what it is they are witnessing. the truth of the matter is....a skillful boxer just doesn't happen by accident and not all guys that are defensive are scared to hit or mix it up. most guys that are taking punches and mixing it up are doing so because they haven't been taught the finer points of the sport. i cringe at the thought of how a guy like ray robinson or willie pep would be treated by network television commentators today. they, for the most part, have no clue.

do not promote train wrecks. mike tyson was an amazing figure in boxing but over time he became a caricature of himself. he was in essence...a kid with amazing talent that wasn't fully developed psychologically or character wise. but that didn't stop the networks from sticking a mic in his face and allowing journalist to ask questions that were sure to set his predictable nature off. there is a certain savvy i expect from the talking heads to steer the topic of conversation in a direction that will further the sports cause...not destroy it. overall...the ppl involved need to be a bit more responsible and mindful. this whole notion of "speaking ur mind" like the bullshit merchant does...is not good for boxing. for one, it's condescending and insulting to the fighters. plus it turns the viewers off to certain fighters because of their lack of character when the focus should be about boxing.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cshel86
post Dec 29 2012, 06:31 PM
Post #23


"The Meanest Nice Guy"


Group: Moderators
Posts: 12,289
Joined: 11-May 11
From: Wherever Greatness is Bred
Member No.: 12,050



QUOTE (Dolimite @ Dec 29 2012, 05:17 PM) *
Cshel86 how do movies get pushed? The names in those movies. If you have a movie that can be a great movie have no stars behind them, then 9 out o 10 times that movie no matter how good will go unnoticed. But a movie can suck all the ass in the world but it will make money because if it has all the stars then people will automatically flock to it. Same with boxing the big names bring in the audience. The May 4th can be a great under card. The winner of Garcia and Judah should fight Broner. Neither Judah and Garcia can ask for more than a million let's face that. Broner can barely ask for that much. If Canelo is not on the May 4th under card than that should free up a lot of money. if May does fight Guerrero (I hope he doesn't) than Guerrero may get maybe 4 million, and that is a maybe. So there are possibilities depend on who the opponent of May will be. Now if he fights JMM then the purse will be higher, so we will see. What might can happen if the lower under cards can be featured on network television that way people can get sucked into the event and be introduced to up and coming talent.

Like Professor said, people are trying to re-event the wheel when they do not have to. The blueprint is already there, it just need to be upgraded.

You can have an allstar cast, and still have a bad script...it happens. What Im trying to help you understand is, this all-star cast of fighters that you're trying to throw on one card, can make more money if they fight on their card on HBO or Showtime. Besides, for what they're used to being paid, they wont except that much of a paycut, just to be on a PPV card.

This is how promoters make their money....they use their golden geese (up and coming fighters) and build them up to be their own stars. Now way we'll see Broner fight the winner of Garia/Judah...it just wont happen that way. The most we'll get is, a hyped up main event, a semi-decent co-feature, and two undercards with exceptional fighters against sub-par opposition.

The hyped up main event and semi-decent co-feature is tradition...
1. Mayweather/Ortiz and Canelo/Gomez
2.Mayweather/Cotto and Canelo/Mosley
3. Pacquiao/Marquez 4 and Gamboa/Fernaras
4. Pacquiao/Marquez 3 and Bradley/Casamayor
5. Chavez/Martinez and R. Martinez/Beltran
6. JMM/Diaz II and Guerrero/Casamayor
7. Pac/Bradley and Jones/Bailey
8. Dawson/Hopkin I and Linares/DeMarco

The list goes on. What is considered "great" fights for us, are sure to be overlooked by the casual fan. They'd be waaay over their head (with the budget) if they try to stack the card like that (Mayweather/TBA, Canelo/Trout, Broner/Gamboa, etc). The thing is, the return value on that investment, wouldn't be nearly as much as it would be, if they were to put the undercard fighters in there with somewhat "credible" opponents.

The average casual fan (who actually makes up for the bigger amount of buyers) will totally miss out on the significance behind these "fantasy" fights that guys wish to have on the cards. All they are really waiting for is the main event, so Broner/Gamboa or Broner vs the winner of Garcia/Judah would get overlooked, especially if its the 2nd fight on the card. Canelo is the bigger draw, he WILL be the cofeature bout, regardless of his opponent.

If Mayweather fights Guerrero, he just shoot him $2M or $2.5M, which would be Robert's biggest payday to date, and Floyd can keep the rest of the money. There wont be any room for money being freed up if Canelo isn't on the card, that's where Floyd will just pick up the rest. Hell, his own fighters on his last card, got paid chump change.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
mgrover
post Dec 29 2012, 07:43 PM
Post #24


Super Middleweight


Group: Moderators
Posts: 3,066
Joined: 23-May 11
Member No.: 12,366



realistically take mayweather out of the equation who wants a stupid amount of 30 million? and put that in a decent card with decent fighters and theres enough money to go around everyone. am not saying Mayweather doesnt deserve that much money am just saying hes the sponge.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Dolimite
post Dec 29 2012, 09:37 PM
Post #25


Middleweight


Group: Members
Posts: 2,672
Joined: 16-December 12
From: Fresh Coast
Member No.: 13,803



QUOTE (mgrover @ Dec 29 2012, 05:43 PM) *
realistically take mayweather out of the equation who wants a stupid amount of 30 million? and put that in a decent card with decent fighters and theres enough money to go around everyone. am not saying Mayweather doesnt deserve that much money am just saying hes the sponge.



Oscar did the same thing, it is nothing new and stop hating. Boxing is a business you see Arum being generous with his money with his fighters?



Chels86 I understand what you are saying bro, I do, but names draw people in. I think the casual fan could be educated if network tv did a spot for each fighter on the under card, take TNT or ESPN they can have features on the fighters. I guess we will see who is on the card in the next few weeks to come then the real bitching and complaining can start.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
mgrover
post Dec 30 2012, 10:32 AM
Post #26


Super Middleweight


Group: Moderators
Posts: 3,066
Joined: 23-May 11
Member No.: 12,366



QUOTE (Dolimite @ Dec 30 2012, 02:37 AM) *
Oscar did the same thing, it is nothing new and stop hating. Boxing is a business you see Arum being generous with his money with his fighters?


no shit Sherlock, I obviously thought boxing was a charity...

But people are trying to fit all these fighters and make sure they all get paid, but there's only so much money that can be generated. Who's demanding a stupid amount of money meaning that cards like that can't happen. It's not hate, its just pure logic. Since Mayweather wouldn't be on the card it probably won't generate as much money as he would need, so everyone can get a slice of the pie can they not.

Mayweather himself could probably have his own event and sell out with not so amazing undercards, am actually curious what his next PPV will sell like.

Arum it one tight motherfucker and the sooner he dies the better, but at least some of the under cards are pretty damn decent. Hell I don't even know why people complained at Pac v Marquez 4.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
wolterb
post Dec 30 2012, 03:56 PM
Post #27


Featherweight


Group: Members
Posts: 524
Joined: 12-July 11
From: mi
Member No.: 12,770



QUOTE (Dolimite @ Dec 29 2012, 09:37 PM) *
Oscar did the same thing, it is nothing new and stop hating. Boxing is a business you see Arum being generous with his money with his fighters?



Chels86 I understand what you are saying bro, I do, but names draw people in. I think the casual fan could be educated if network tv did a spot for each fighter on the under card, take TNT or ESPN they can have features on the fighters. I guess we will see who is on the card in the next few weeks to come then the real bitching and complaining can start.


circular reasoning is a fallacy. and the model of payment oscar, arum and floyd all have benefited from does not make it a good one (well, except for them lol).

i know what you are saying it just doesn't seem right to tear down ol' grover - his comment didn't seem like hate to me anyway

This post has been edited by wolterb: Dec 30 2012, 04:00 PM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Dolimite
post Dec 30 2012, 04:51 PM
Post #28


Middleweight


Group: Members
Posts: 2,672
Joined: 16-December 12
From: Fresh Coast
Member No.: 13,803



QUOTE (wolterb @ Dec 30 2012, 01:56 PM) *
circular reasoning is a fallacy. and the model of payment oscar, arum and floyd all have benefited from does not make it a good one (well, except for them lol).

i know what you are saying it just doesn't seem right to tear down ol' grover - his comment didn't seem like hate to me anyway


He seems to call out Mayweather's greed as a reason why we can't have a good undercard, my point was Oscar and other big name fighters have done the same thing, why single out one person? It is a business and no one is going to get punched in the face for the love of the sport at a professional level, they fight for prize money... Why does Mayweather get called greedy and self absorbed? Other boxers would love to get to his level. No one bitched when Oscar was getting 30 million dollar purses, but Mayweather demands the lion share and all of a sudden people care about fairness in the sport. Now if Canelo was asking for 30 million dollar purses and other names that have not earned the right to then yes he would have a argument, but we are talking about the top cat in boxing.

Im not tearing down anyone, but you can't change the rules of the game in the middle of play. You can't just acknowledge one person's fault when someone before him set the standard. The bigger name gets the bigger draw. The reason why LeBron gets Lebron money is because he is Lebron, you can't give Chris Humphries LaBron money because he isn't the man. Same thing with Floyd you can't give Floyd J'Leon Love money and vica versa. The man has earned a right to demand as much as he wants. He paid his dues so it is only right that he gets to cash in.

This post has been edited by Dolimite: Dec 30 2012, 04:52 PM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
checkleft
post Dec 30 2012, 05:31 PM
Post #29


Super Middleweight


Group: Members
Posts: 3,230
Joined: 18-August 11
From: Golden State of Mind
Member No.: 13,079



QUOTE (Dolimite @ Dec 29 2012, 10:37 PM) *
Oscar did the same thing, it is nothing new and stop hating. Boxing is a business you see Arum being generous with his money with his fighters?



Chels86 I understand what you are saying bro, I do, but names draw people in. I think the casual fan could be educated if network tv did a spot for each fighter on the under card, take TNT or ESPN they can have features on the fighters. I guess we will see who is on the card in the next few weeks to come then the real bitching and complaining can start.

Yes they will (might) draw in more people. But what chels has been trying to say over and over and over again is that it more than likely will not happen because the fighters make more money on their own events even if its not ppv because they don't have to share the budget. That's not very hard to understand. No matter how good the event sells most of the people on the undercard get paid what they get paid, no revenue, unless your one of the big dogs (main eventers, co star, or promoters).

It's a nice idea tho.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
mgrover
post Dec 30 2012, 05:40 PM
Post #30


Super Middleweight


Group: Moderators
Posts: 3,066
Joined: 23-May 11
Member No.: 12,366



QUOTE (Dolimite @ Dec 30 2012, 09:51 PM) *
He seems to call out Mayweather's greed as a reason why we can't have a good undercard


well its because the thread is about Mayweather, that's literally the only reason I haven't mentioned Arum, we all know what a blood sucker he is.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

4 Pages V  < 1 2 3 4 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 24th April 2014 - 07:56 AM