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> Nonito jumps ship to GBP
Guest_Fitz_*
post Mar 18 2011, 06:53 PM
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QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Mar 19 2011, 10:03 AM) *
"Barrera, Mosley, Hopkins and JMM are all at the ends of their career"

You've kinda answered your own argument about Golden Boy. All those fighters were pretty much stars before they joined GBP.


Yes they were stars, but GBP was relatively new and had been around for a short time. It was a credit to them that they got stars so early. Most other promoters would probably have to build slowly.

QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Mar 19 2011, 10:03 AM) *
As for Hopkins' fights. He has been kept on ice for long periods of time and you know how unhappy he was about it. In fact he has many times proclaimed himself to be a free agent


Hopkins is my favourite, but GBP I don't think was the problem. Hopkins got good fights with Tarver, Wright, Calzaghe and Pavlik and his career was rejuvenated. The problems I think began when Hopkins had his sight set on the Jones rematch. I could be wrong, but I think I may have recalled that GBP wasn't big on that fight, but went through with it anyways for Hopkins and paid the price.
The problem was, Hopkins couldn't sell. He was offered a fight with a guy like Dawson, but the money wasn't there. Hopkins was looking for big money fights, but there wasn't much to choose from. Hence the reason why he had to travel to Canada to find it.

QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Mar 19 2011, 10:03 AM) *
Mosley after destroying Margarito and becoming the hottest WW in the world for a quick minute was left to do what? Nothing but sit back and cool his heels. Shrewd move guys.


Up until then, it was more bad luck for Mosley. He wanted the Mayweather fight, but they can't hold a gun to Mayweather's head and Mayweather didn't want it. Roach didn't want the fight either, he has been on record saying that at the time, Mosley was too good and not enough money, and they opted for the Cotto fight instead.
So at the time, GBP got him the next best fight and that was against Berto, and that was going to be a unification fight. The Haiti disaster happened and Berto had to pull out, then it was by luck that he got the Mayweather fight, because Mayweather was looking for a dance partner and Mosley became available, so Mayweather had to take it.

QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Mar 19 2011, 10:03 AM) *
The only reason JMM became big was his rivarly with Pacquaio. In fact that's also the only reason he got a fight with Floyd, so Floyd could have bragging rights over Manny. It sure as fuck wasn't anything Golden Boy did.


That's like saying that the only reason Pacquiao became big, was because Oscar wanted to fight him and sure as fuck didn't have anything to do with what Arum did. Also, the Mayweather fight wasn't the only fight Marquez had.
Marquez made a good run and p4p claim for himself when he moved up to 135 and wiped the division to become undisputed. I think GBP did quite well with that they got Marquez, and what he accomplished at light weight.
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STEVENSKI
post Mar 18 2011, 07:09 PM
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QUOTE (Fitz @ Mar 19 2011, 10:53 AM) *
Yes they were stars, but GBP was relatively new and had been around for a short time. It was a credit to them that they got stars so early. Most other promoters would probably have to build slowly.


Yeah but most promoters don't start with several hundread million in cash, a recognisable brand name & figurehead & executive level contacts with the premier boxing network do they?

Just saying GBP's success is not down to hard work & graft but more key contacts & financial backing.
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The Ollie Reed F...
post Mar 18 2011, 07:32 PM
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QUOTE (Fitz @ Mar 18 2011, 07:53 PM) *
That's like saying that the only reason Pacquiao became big, was because Oscar wanted to fight him and sure as fuck didn't have anything to do with what Arum did. Also, the Mayweather fight wasn't the only fight Marquez had.
Marquez made a good run and p4p claim for himself when he moved up to 135 and wiped the division to become undisputed. I think GBP did quite well with that they got Marquez, and what he accomplished at light weight.


Yes sure Manny used the Oscar fight as a breakthrough fight but Arum certainly knew how to keep that momentum running and build Manny's star bigger and bigger.

Mosley on the other hand had a sensational performance against Margarito that reignited his career and although he ended up with the Mayweather fight, more by good luck than good management, his career stalled badly.

+1 to Steve's point regarding Golden Boy's growth. It had ZERO to do with their sensational promoting and more to do with Oscar's already in-built cozy relationship with HBO.

Fitz you're a smart guy and I'm really surprised you think Golden Boy is the nuts as a promotional company. To me, compared to some of the slick moves that Arum and King make they are complete rookies, and have been made to look so on countless ocassions.

And in fact almost 10 years in as a promotional company they at times look like they're going backwards. I am surprised you think they are doing such a good job.
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mexi-cutioner
post Mar 18 2011, 07:48 PM
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QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Mar 18 2011, 03:03 PM) *
"Barrera, Mosley, Hopkins and JMM are all at the ends of their career"

You've kinda answered your own argument about Golden Boy. All those fighters were pretty much stars before they joined GBP.

As for Hopkins' fights. He has been kept on ice for long periods of time and you know how unhappy he was about it. In fact he has many times proclaimed himself to be a free agent

Mosley after destroying Margarito and becoming the hottest WW in the world for a quick minute was left to do what? Nothing but sit back and cool his heels. Shrewd move guys.

The only reason JMM became big was his rivarly with Pacquaio. In fact that's also the only reason he got a fight with Floyd, so Floyd could have bragging rights over Manny. It sure as fuck wasn't anything Golden Boy did.

Try re-reading my posts. I haven't said that Arum was doing a goood job with Donaire, and certainly I think Donaire was right to look at his options, I'm just not sure that jumping to GBP is the best move. I'll stand by that. So far those clowns have done nothing to convince me they know how to handle a guys career in the long term.


If the biggest predicament you have against GBP building up prospects, just look at how Saul Alvarez is currently being built up. In fact, let's compare Alvarez to Donaire. In the 5 fights since Alvarez has been with GBP he headlined the undercard of Mayweather-Mosley as well as Mora-Mosley, both cards had a good number of sales and attendance. In his other 3 fights vs Cuello, N'Dou and Matthew Hatton, he headlined televised HBO Latino cards and most recently, HBO World Championship Boxing where he won his first world title being one of the youngest to do so, against an opponent he was suposed to beat with a reputable name (hatton). Overrated or not, the dude has developed an IMMENSE following In fact, my buddies who are casual fans that only know the skin and bones of the sport know more about Alvarez than Donaire, simply from having more exposure to Alvarez than DOnaire.

Donaire on the other hand, has fought 4 fights on Top Rank PPV's against overmatched opponents. I'm not sure what the buy rate for those PPV's are but I can assume they are fairly low. MUCH lower than the Mayweather-Mosley and Mora-Mosley PPV's. In Donaire's fight vs Sidorenko, he was promised by Arum a spot as the headliner on the Top Rank PPV after JCC Jr backed out last minute, and instead he once again sat in the backburner as an undercard fighter. Meanwhile, Alvarez fought on the same night vs Lovemore N'dou as the main event on HBO Latino. While both fights had about the same level of meaningfulness (more for Donaire actually, since it set him up for the Montiel bout), I can guarantee you that more people tuned in to Alvarez' win than Donaire's.

True, GBP has had trouble building up its prospects from the ground up, but you make it sound like boxing superstars are built up fairly easily. Considering the era of boxing we live in, i'd say it's now much harder. Alot of it is bad luck. It's clear GBP lost faith in Ortiz after the Maidana loss, but upto that point they were doing very well marketing him. No one expected Danny Jacobs to lose to Pirog, a dude with 15 fights who's fought B and C level europeans his whole career. Another case would Be James Kirkland, it's simply unfortunate he had to go to jail otherwise he was gaining A LOT of momentum as a rising star.

If you can convincingly tell me one or two things Golden Boy will do that could be worse than how Arum was handling Donaire, then I'll quit this debate. It's clear that Arum lacked confidence in Donaire's abilities, hence the reason he continuously fed him taxi drivers for so long on low quality PPVs. Donaire was also extremely inactive up until 2010. By the time he was convinced after teh Sidorenko and Montiel win, it was too late.

This post has been edited by mexi-cutioner: Mar 18 2011, 07:54 PM
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The Ollie Reed F...
post Mar 19 2011, 12:55 AM
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QUOTE (mexi-cutioner @ Mar 18 2011, 08:48 PM) *
If the biggest predicament you have against GBP building up prospects, just look at how Saul Alvarez is currently being built up. In fact, let's compare Alvarez to Donaire. In the 5 fights since Alvarez has been with GBP he headlined the undercard of Mayweather-Mosley as well as Mora-Mosley, both cards had a good number of sales and attendance. In his other 3 fights vs Cuello, N'Dou and Matthew Hatton, he headlined televised HBO Latino cards and most recently, HBO World Championship Boxing where he won his first world title being one of the youngest to do so, against an opponent he was suposed to beat with a reputable name (hatton). Overrated or not, the dude has developed an IMMENSE following In fact, my buddies who are casual fans that only know the skin and bones of the sport know more about Alvarez than Donaire, simply from having more exposure to Alvarez than DOnaire.

Donaire on the other hand, has fought 4 fights on Top Rank PPV's against overmatched opponents. I'm not sure what the buy rate for those PPV's are but I can assume they are fairly low. MUCH lower than the Mayweather-Mosley and Mora-Mosley PPV's. In Donaire's fight vs Sidorenko, he was promised by Arum a spot as the headliner on the Top Rank PPV after JCC Jr backed out last minute, and instead he once again sat in the backburner as an undercard fighter. Meanwhile, Alvarez fought on the same night vs Lovemore N'dou as the main event on HBO Latino. While both fights had about the same level of meaningfulness (more for Donaire actually, since it set him up for the Montiel bout), I can guarantee you that more people tuned in to Alvarez' win than Donaire's.

True, GBP has had trouble building up its prospects from the ground up, but you make it sound like boxing superstars are built up fairly easily. Considering the era of boxing we live in, i'd say it's now much harder. Alot of it is bad luck. It's clear GBP lost faith in Ortiz after the Maidana loss, but upto that point they were doing very well marketing him. No one expected Danny Jacobs to lose to Pirog, a dude with 15 fights who's fought B and C level europeans his whole career. Another case would Be James Kirkland, it's simply unfortunate he had to go to jail otherwise he was gaining A LOT of momentum as a rising star.

If you can convincingly tell me one or two things Golden Boy will do that could be worse than how Arum was handling Donaire, then I'll quit this debate. It's clear that Arum lacked confidence in Donaire's abilities, hence the reason he continuously fed him taxi drivers for so long on low quality PPVs. Donaire was also extremely inactive up until 2010. By the time he was convinced after teh Sidorenko and Montiel win, it was too late.


Actually Mexi I've said in other threads that I think GBP may be moving Alvarez along too soon. By giving him a title they've given him very little wiggle room to fight some more gatekeeper types and build up his skills.

Now he has to face fully blown contenders.

I suspect the reason they are trying to move him on so quickly is:

A) Ortiz failed badly.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) Most of their established stars are on the downside of their careers and their main money man Floyd shows no signs of wanting to get back in the ring.

GBP need a cash cow quick and I bet in their desperation to find one they screw Alvarez's career.

Sorry but as you can tell I'm no fan of the Swiss banker and his cronies. I do realise that all promoters are looking out for Number One but this crowd show a woeful fucken lack of imagination compared to some of the other dogs around.

As for building him up, Saul was absolutely a superstar in Mexico before crossing over to America. Is he that well known in the States? I'm sure amongst the Latino community he is, but amongst the casual fight fans community? C'mon.

AGAIN read my comments. I'm not saying I necassarily disagree with Donaire jumping ship, I'm just not sure he's jumped to the right place.

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kidbazooka1
post Mar 19 2011, 01:35 AM
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QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Mar 19 2011, 01:55 AM) *
AGAIN read my comments. I'm not saying I necassarily disagree with Donaire jumping ship, I'm just not sure he's jumped to the right place.


Where else was he gonna go. King is done his best days are over, Shaw and Dibella are good but they don't have the power of an Arum or GBP.
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The Ollie Reed F...
post Mar 19 2011, 02:31 AM
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QUOTE (kidbazooka1 @ Mar 19 2011, 01:35 AM) *
Where else was he gonna go. King is done his best days are over, Shaw and Dibella are good but they don't have the power of an Arum or GBP.


Well this is where it comes down to a difference of opinion. I would prefer Shaw or Dibella to GBP. And I still think King has got it when the mood takes him.
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The Ollie Reed F...
post Mar 19 2011, 04:56 AM
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QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Mar 19 2011, 05:48 AM) *
mexi-cutioner's up a round on my card.



WHAT!!! By pointing out how dreadful GBP is as a promotional company? YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS! This is some damn fix, I demand a recount. You suck as a judge Smarty. Obviously corrupt (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
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Guest_Fitz_*
post Mar 19 2011, 12:16 PM
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QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Mar 19 2011, 11:32 AM) *
Mosley on the other hand had a sensational performance against Margarito that reignited his career and although he ended up with the Mayweather fight, more by good luck than good management, his career stalled badly.


How is it GBP fault that his career stalled? There was absolutely NO chance of a Pacquiao fight. Roach himself said at the time that Mosley was too good and not enough money, and they opted for Cotto. Mayweather didn't fight him at that point, and the 3rd best option was that GBP got Mosley a fight with Berto. How is it GBP fault that the Haiti tragedy happened and Berto had to pull out? Soon after that, he ended up getting the fight with Mayweather, but the fight was still a few months away from when the fight got signed. How do you think this was Golden Boys fault that Mosley was sidelined? To me that was bad luck and nothing more.

QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Mar 19 2011, 11:32 AM) *
Fitz you're a smart guy and I'm really surprised you think Golden Boy is the nuts as a promotional company. To me, compared to some of the slick moves that Arum and King make they are complete rookies, and have been made to look so on countless ocassions.

And in fact almost 10 years in as a promotional company they at times look like they're going backwards. I am surprised you think they are doing such a good job.


I have never said that GBP is the best of them at all. I said earlier that I have no idea where GBP will take Donaire, but I know that Arum was never going to give what Donaire wanted and that was to fight for an undisputed at bantam. He was talking about a Gamboa fight for fucks sake, and in 3 years, the only big fight he ever got was against Montiel. Even Shaw was able to do better than that with a Darchinyan fight. Arum did absolutely nothing for Donaire.
I don't think GBP is the best, but I hate Arum, and he is a cock sucker. All I am saying is that at least with GBP there is hope. There was none of that with Arum, as he already mentioned what his intentions were.
Like Mexi said, the only reason people have been leaving GBP is because Arum won't do business with GBP and the fighters that are leaving are looking for a pay day against Pacquiao. The only way they are going to accomplish this is by leaving Golden Boy.

This post has been edited by Fitz: Mar 19 2011, 12:16 PM
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mexi-cutioner
post Mar 19 2011, 07:39 PM
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QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Mar 18 2011, 09:55 PM) *
Actually Mexi I've said in other threads that I think GBP may be moving Alvarez along too soon. By giving him a title they've given him very little wiggle room to fight some more gatekeeper types and build up his skills.

Now he has to face fully blown contenders.

I suspect the reason they are trying to move him on so quickly is:

A) Ortiz failed badly.

B) Most of their established stars are on the downside of their careers and their main money man Floyd shows no signs of wanting to get back in the ring.

GBP need a cash cow quick and I bet in their desperation to find one they screw Alvarez's career.

Sorry but as you can tell I'm no fan of the Swiss banker and his cronies. I do realise that all promoters are looking out for Number One but this crowd show a woeful fucken lack of imagination compared to some of the other dogs around.

As for building him up, Saul was absolutely a superstar in Mexico before crossing over to America. Is he that well known in the States? I'm sure amongst the Latino community he is, but amongst the casual fight fans community? C'mon.

AGAIN read my comments. I'm not saying I necassarily disagree with Donaire jumping ship, I'm just not sure he's jumped to the right place.


I see what you're saying, but even though GBP didn't really earn the respect and love they receive from HBO, they still receive an abundance of respect and teh most airtime nonetheless, and they also have more overall power than Dibella and Shaw. Aside from Don King, there weren't many other options in terms of promoters out there. Don King is as scummy and corrupt as Arum, and Dibella imo has the least amount of power out of all of them. Donaire was originally with Shaw and at this point I feel Shaw does a better job of building up prospects than GBP as evident with Dawson and Tim Bradley, but you know what all his superstars share in common? The inability to gain exposure and a viable fan base. For as good as Darchinyan, Bradley, and Chad Dawson are, they are relatively unknown outside of hardcore fans and Shaw doesn't seem capable of promoting them well enough to even sell out seats in their own backyard. Dirrell was lucky however as he was apart of the Super Middleweight tourney...but for as bad as u think GBP are, they still seem like a better fit for Nonito than the others

This post has been edited by mexi-cutioner: Mar 19 2011, 07:40 PM
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