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> Chad Dawson and Victor Ortiz
bosco
post Sep 10 2012, 05:40 PM
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After watching the Andre Ward vs Chad Dawson fight it got me to thinking. Vic Ortiz took an enormous amount of criticism when he quit in his fight with Maidana. Saturday night we saw Chad Dawson told the referee he quit in the Andre Ward fight but I haven't heard an ounce of criticism towards Dawson. Is it fair that Ortiz received tons of criticism and Dawson none. Is that fair and why?
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Gambit808
post Sep 10 2012, 05:51 PM
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Good point here, but the thing about Ortiz is that it always happens when it's ahead even fight, after he knocks his opponent down then allows them to get back up, fight back to the point he quits. Chad was just getting his ass whipped the whole fight and had no choice but to.
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neophyte7
post Sep 10 2012, 05:52 PM
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Ortiz gets criticized because he was head butting and starting to get desperate prior to the head butt that split Floyd's mouth. He was getting straight annihilted with right hands.. His move was a desperation move reminiscent of some Zab Judah shit... add the fact that idiots feel Floyd has no power and he should have gotten up despite being hit with two of Mayweather's best shots-- the left hook and straight right hand... Ortiz could have tried to shake it off, but one thing for sure had he been allowed to continue it would have been a viscious stoppage...I did not see the bout where Dawson quit but in my view the bulk of Ortiz being criticized is people being in denial as to how hard he was hit... it was 4 rounds had it been 9 and the same events maybe he would not have been critcized. Dawson stood in for 9 rounds whereas Ortiz seemed to get shaky after Floyd landed a 12 punch combo i think in round 3 or round 4 prior to his act of desperation. He essentially quit trying to compete legitimately when he resorted to fouling....
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Cheesey1
post Sep 10 2012, 06:04 PM
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Ortiz is a bit wacky, but I was never one of those that questioned his not wanting to continue after the broken jaw and I also got over the Maidana debacle a long time ago. These guys put themselves through a lot and for the most part their critics couldn't handle a quarter of what they have to deal with.

That being said, I think that Gambit's post gets to the heart of the issue.
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BigFightFan
post Sep 10 2012, 07:41 PM
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Chad just couldn't perform at the weight and once he got cut that was it for his confidence. Although I was disappointed in his performance he is a notch above Ortiz in the heart category. I still believe in Dawson, he is only missing that killer instinct that would take him over the top
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daprofessor
post Sep 10 2012, 07:54 PM
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QUOTE (bosco @ Sep 10 2012, 06:40 PM) *
After watching the Andre Ward vs Chad Dawson fight it got me to thinking. Vic Ortiz took an enormous amount of criticism when he quit in his fight with Maidana. Saturday night we saw Chad Dawson told the referee he quit in the Andre Ward fight but I haven't heard an ounce of criticism towards Dawson. Is it fair that Ortiz received tons of criticism and Dawson none. Is that fair and why?


all fighters take risks when they step through the ropes. that alone is enough for me to respect them thoroughly. imo...the ppl criticizing victor or chad have no idea what it's like to be in their shoes...so their criticism doesn't hold water.

ortiz was getting bombed on....his corner gave him horrible advice and the same thing happened over and over again. i understand why he quit. he has to live with it...i'm sure the burden is a lot worse than anything anyone on a message board can say.

as for chad...it was pretty much the same thing. he tried...he failed...he lives to fight another day. even in his failure...he's still a warrior. he put himself at a disadvantage by coming down in weight...and going to wards backyard for this fight. he made no excuses. he took his beating like a man. he knew he had no answers. he opted to stop the action and go back to the drawing board. the man has a life outside of boxing. there's no need to take unnecessary punishment.
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Cshel86
post Sep 10 2012, 07:55 PM
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Good topic. Ortiz receives so much criticism because he plays into this vicious, "I'm a bit on the crazy side" persona, then he wants people to feel sorry for him due to his ass-chapping backstory that he constantly harps on.

With that in mind, people actually give him twice the support in fights, then he mentally folds and pisses everybody off...dude straight turns into the Little Engine That Could...but he comes up short.

They both have mental lapses in fights, but the difference here is, nobody really knows Chad like that, and Victor has been built up to be this BIG star...and has come up short. The weight was an issue with Chad, so he shouldn't receive any more flack than Morales did for quitting in the 3rd Pac fight...which was little to none.
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mrchitown
post Sep 10 2012, 10:45 PM
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QUOTE (daprofessor @ Sep 10 2012, 07:54 PM) *
all fighters take risks when they step through the ropes. that alone is enough for me to respect them thoroughly. imo...the ppl criticizing victor or chad have no idea what it's like to be in their shoes...so their criticism doesn't hold water.

ortiz was getting bombed on....his corner gave him horrible advice and the same thing happened over and over again. i understand why he quit. he has to live with it...i'm sure the burden is a lot worse than anything anyone on a message board can say.

as for chad...it was pretty much the same thing. he tried...he failed...he lives to fight another day. even in his failure...he's still a warrior. he put himself at a disadvantage by coming down in weight...and going to wards backyard for this fight. he made no excuses. he took his beating like a man. he knew he had no answers. he opted to stop the action and go back to the drawing board. the man has a life outside of boxing. there's no need to take unnecessary punishment.


That is so true. Sports like many forms of entertainment need fans. But the thing that most fans don't do is actively participate in that form of entertainment, in this case boxing. I question many who accuse Ortiz or Dawson for "quitting". When some of them are out of shape, internet trolls who hide behind a cpu, or failed H.S. athletes LOL.

Boxing is the most cruel sport that one can choose to partake in, it's sad when you get people who are insurance agents question the "heart" of these men. I've not done that and I will never do that because I am one of the few who know what a fighter goes thru to get to that point. Granted I haven't fought professionally but as an amateur and as a trainer, I see ht e level of determination these fighters go thru to get in the ring and it's sad when you got people who haven't went thru a training camp, dealt with the media, or had a world class fighter swinging at you to question your desire to win

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mrchitown
post Sep 10 2012, 10:46 PM
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The only similarities that I see between the 2 fighters being discussed in this thread is that they are notorious for mental lapses in the ring
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checkleft
post Sep 10 2012, 11:19 PM
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I honestly think ortiz could be over his. He got his jaw hurt round 4 I think? And he was still up big landing good shots and actually boxing, using the jab and scoring. But then he for hit again and it turned into a double fracture and I believe it was over a blood vessel or something like that. You can't control that type of stuff, but as for the stuff he could control he was doing a good job.

Chad.. can be two chads, bad (literally) or bad (shaft bad). Pascal completely mind fucked him and cut him in their fight and chad looked a lot like he did in the ward fight, lost, out of gas, lost of confidence, and ready to give up. Again in the ward fight he looked the same but ward really capitalized and finished.
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