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> Chavez Jr. Might Have A New Trainer Upon Return
daprofessor
post Dec 25 2012, 12:37 AM
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QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 24 2012, 09:44 PM) *
...but c'mon now...Freddie Roach is the best trainer in the world, and the best in all boxing history. Give the guy a break. Sheesh...


freddie was actually improving chavez. the problem was chavez had some success and bounced. there's waaaay too many chiefs in his camp. waaay too many yes men too. the combination of freddie and ariza was working. he should have stuck with it.
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Cshel86
post Dec 25 2012, 12:42 AM
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QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 25 2012, 12:37 AM) *
freddie was actually improving chavez. the problem was chavez had some success and bounced. there's waaaay too many chiefs in his camp. waaay too many yes men too. the combination of freddie and ariza was working. he should have stuck with it.

Lol, I was being sarcastic about Roach being the best in the world. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)
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daprofessor
post Dec 25 2012, 12:55 AM
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QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 25 2012, 12:42 AM) *
Lol, I was being sarcastic about Roach being the best in the world. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)



i got that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
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mgrover
post Dec 25 2012, 07:59 AM
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QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 25 2012, 01:52 AM) *
C'mon MG...aint nothin' wrong with the good ol' herbs! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

Anyhow, I think Nacho would help him a bit more than Garcia. Garcia's fighters were pretty much established before they got to him, I think Mikey has been with him pretty much from jump.

I just see Nacho helping Julio let his hands go (effectively) against faster fighters. With all this in mind, I hope Julio's eye injury wasn't too serious. Injuries like that, take years off of your career.


I wanted Martinez to blind that piece of shit, but I think that more hate towards Arum and the bullshit he's been playing with Chavez. I'll probably feel the same when Canelo fights and somebody destroys him.
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wolterb
post Dec 25 2012, 08:45 AM
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QUOTE (mgrover @ Dec 25 2012, 07:59 AM) *
I wanted Martinez to blind that piece of shit, but I think that more hate towards Arum and the bullshit he's been playing with Chavez. I'll probably feel the same when Canelo fights and somebody destroys him.


i doubt you'll ever see canelo take the beatings chavez has already taken. there r some parallels between them but its pretty obvious canelo does not rely wholly on size advantage as chavez does.

in other words, if canelo was to get whooped, at least it would be someone within range of his actual weight. fuckin Zbik marked chavez jr up, they looked like they were 3 divisions apart!
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wolterb
post Dec 25 2012, 09:14 AM
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QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 25 2012, 12:37 AM) *
freddie was actually improving chavez. the problem was chavez had some success and bounced. there's waaaay too many chiefs in his camp. waaay too many yes men too. the combination of freddie and ariza was working. he should have stuck with it.


What improvements did you see, just curious? I think had Chavez jr been receptive to roach he would have improved but as I said before, it never appeared to me that chavez jr won fights using skills or strategy.

It always seems to me that chavez jr attempts to execute a game plan initially, fails and then turns into the greenhorn that looks like they just watched Julio Cesar Chavez's highlights. the only reason he can get away with fighting like that is because of the weight game. Chavez jr isn't gonna listen to anyone when he knows his opponents weight is substantially less than his...its a different ball game like that. Ariza is more important than any trainer with that strategy imo
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mgrover
post Dec 25 2012, 10:51 AM
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QUOTE (wolterb @ Dec 25 2012, 01:45 PM) *
i doubt you'll ever see canelo take the beatings chavez has already taken. there r some parallels between them but its pretty obvious canelo does not rely wholly on size advantage as chavez does.

in other words, if canelo was to get whooped, at least it would be someone within range of his actual weight. fuckin Zbik marked chavez jr up, they looked like they were 3 divisions apart!


I know tbh but still am hopeful haha
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Cshel86
post Dec 25 2012, 07:10 PM
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QUOTE (mgrover @ Dec 25 2012, 07:59 AM) *
I wanted Martinez to blind that piece of shit, but I think that more hate towards Arum and the bullshit he's been playing with Chavez. I'll probably feel the same when Canelo fights and somebody destroys him.

I actually started liking Julio during/after the Andy Lee fight...before that, couldn't STAND him. More than likely, it was for the same sentiments...his promoter and team.
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daprofessor
post Dec 26 2012, 05:28 PM
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QUOTE (wolterb @ Dec 25 2012, 10:14 AM) *
What improvements did you see, just curious? I think had Chavez jr been receptive to roach he would have improved but as I said before, it never appeared to me that chavez jr won fights using skills or strategy.

It always seems to me that chavez jr attempts to execute a game plan initially, fails and then turns into the greenhorn that looks like they just watched Julio Cesar Chavez's highlights. the only reason he can get away with fighting like that is because of the weight game. Chavez jr isn't gonna listen to anyone when he knows his opponents weight is substantially less than his...its a different ball game like that. Ariza is more important than any trainer with that strategy imo



the manfredo fight illustrated their work together best. he was jabbing and using foot and head movement. his defense had improved and was showing in that fight. he threw all of that out the window for the fight against lee and martinez. he wasn't going to outbox either of them...but some of those elements would have helped him in both fights. ariza definitely took his conditioning to the next level and he seemed much stronger and his endurance was much better under him. i believe the footwork drills were helping him tremendously.
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Cshel86
post Dec 27 2012, 01:11 PM
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QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 26 2012, 05:28 PM) *
the manfredo fight illustrated their work together best. he was jabbing and using foot and head movement. his defense had improved and was showing in that fight. he threw all of that out the window for the fight against lee and martinez. he wasn't going to outbox either of them...but some of those elements would have helped him in both fights. ariza definitely took his conditioning to the next level and he seemed much stronger and his endurance was much better under him. i believe the footwork drills were helping him tremendously.

I agree! One of his best performances (skill wise) was the Manfredo fight. Though I didnt like Manfredo's lack of confidence during his pre-fight interview, he did give it his best when the was on.

Julio totally pissed it all away in the Rubio fight (due to that DUI and almost not making weight). As for the Lee fight, he looked a bit more ripped, but still has trouble making weight. He didn't care to really box either, but maybe its because he knew that he could hammer Lee whenever he wanted to.

I like what Ariza was doing with him (as far as training, not PED allegations), but it doesn't mean much if his legs were shot to shit because of dehydration.
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