IPB  

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

 
2 Pages V   1 2 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Showtime is "Showing up"...HBO fakes it 'til they make it., Comparison...
Cshel86
post Jun 25 2012, 07:32 PM
Post #1


"The Meanest Nice Guy"


Group: Moderators
Posts: 13,193
Joined: 11-May 11
From: Wherever Greatness is Bred
Member No.: 12,050



I have been bringing this up over the past few weeks in regards to HBO. Their whole "the megafight is ours" attitude is leading to their demise.

1. Public display of nuthuggery (that word makes me laugh every time I hear it)
2. Putting waaay too much stock into network fighter that they "believe" will raise their ratings
3. Bad matchmaking
4. Lackluster performances in overhyped fights
5. 24/7 series is hit and miss

What I've seen from Showtime as of late, is great fights. Not sure if Im the only one who notices this, but it seems like fighters on that network, dont have this big fuckin' cloud of fighting to "measure up" against the expectations of the megafight.

On HBO, you have guy fighting in this "delusionally competitive" manner, and hoping to shine since this IS the "mgeafight" network. Guys are either overmatched and end up not living up to the hype, or they fight so cautiously (with bigger fights in mind) that they put on lackluster performances.

HBO is hanging on to the whole idea of this fight happening on their network, and they're slowly killing the network. Mind you, I watch EVERY fight that airs, regardless of the station, but watching Showtime gives me this feeling of relief, sort of like the weekend...no more answering phones, working with idiot coworkers & customers, no more listening to the same shit...you actually have a breather from the nonsense.

One more thing, has anybody noticed lesser known guys becoming upset artists and bigger names on Showtime? Think about it...

1. Back in 2010, Salido was fed to Gamboa to make him look good, but he fought Lopez on Showtime and became the man overnight.
2. Josesito Lopez (sp) was fed to Jessie Vargas to help Jessie become a star (and almost kicked his ass) and was totally forgotten about, but got an Ortiz bout in Showtime and scored an upset.
3. Ward was overlooked on HBO, and got dates on Showtime...now look at him.
4. Quillin was overlooked on HBO, but got a date on a decent card on Showtime. He was supposed to be in the FMJ/Cotto card, but nobody wanted to see it.

Thoughts? Anything to add?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
daprofessor
post Jun 26 2012, 01:17 AM
Post #2


Cruiserweight


Group: Members
Posts: 5,823
Joined: 20-May 11
From: killa kali
Member No.: 12,336



ward and his ppl actually decided to fly under the radar. they wanted to move at their own pace so that he could develop properly. that was thee best move they ever made!!!! hbo should not be in the business of developing fighters. that is a process that takes time. their concerns about putting on big fights and creating stars do NOT produce results. showtime has a "let the chips fall where they may" approach and it works. they, for the most part, do not have any vested interest in any one fighter....therefore, we get great match ups and the winners keep going. unlike hbo where guys like pirog disappear off the map for beating the house fighter....and guys like sergio martinez get second rate treatment while a manufactured guy like chavez gets preferential treatment. hbo is constantly doing shit wrong....listening to all the wrong ppl. how the fuck did thomas hauser get a job at hbo!?!?!? seriously??? what's next....dan rafael??? clueless bastids deserve the failure they have coming.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cshel86
post Jun 26 2012, 10:08 AM
Post #3


"The Meanest Nice Guy"


Group: Moderators
Posts: 13,193
Joined: 11-May 11
From: Wherever Greatness is Bred
Member No.: 12,050



QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jun 26 2012, 02:17 AM) *
ward and his ppl actually decided to fly under the radar. they wanted to move at their own pace so that he could develop properly. that was thee best move they ever made!!!! hbo should not be in the business of developing fighters. that is a process that takes time. their concerns about putting on big fights and creating stars do NOT produce results. showtime has a "let the chips fall where they may" approach and it works. they, for the most part, do not have any vested interest in any one fighter....therefore, we get great match ups and the winners keep going. unlike hbo where guys like pirog disappear off the map for beating the house fighter....and guys like sergio martinez get second rate treatment while a manufactured guy like chavez gets preferential treatment. hbo is constantly doing shit wrong....listening to all the wrong ppl. how the fuck did thomas hauser get a job at hbo!?!?!? seriously??? what's next....dan rafael??? clueless bastids deserve the failure they have coming.

I remember a Ward fight that they covered a few years ago (I believe he was a MW at the time), and they showed little interest in him. That was the best move for him to go to Showtime and do things at their pace.

Their approach is non conducive, and they're paying for it. I like how you described Showtime and their "let the chips fall where they may" approach, there's no better way of wording it.

If you remember, Martinez ALWAYS received that underhanded treatment, as evidenced by his fights with Margarito and Cintron in the past. He didn't get his credit until he knocked out Williams, which he was somewhat robbed in the first fight...or that scorecard was just that damn bad. You're right, those fighters that they've vested interest in, have fallen short at times.

Donaire hasn't had a knockout since the Montiel fight, which HBO drooled all over and crowned him King. Chavez is improving, but the drug test inconsistencies have posed a black eye. Sergio cant get a decent fight to boost his career. The shit that's falling apart behind the scenes is beginning to unveil a bit.

I have to go back to the thread about Greenburg getting the axe, since I didn't participate in that thread. It was some good info in there.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Franchize
post Jun 26 2012, 11:15 AM
Post #4


Junior Middleweight


Group: Members
Posts: 2,149
Joined: 28-December 11
Member No.: 13,419



If Showtime's cameras were as good as HBO, and they had Michael Buffer, they could freeze HBO out completely lol Is it me or does HBO fights just come out clearer and crisper on TV? Soemthing about the lighting. Epix is the absolute worst in that regards. Also, so wat you will, but a megafight isn't a megafight to me without Michael Buffer.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
daprofessor
post Jun 26 2012, 11:59 AM
Post #5


Cruiserweight


Group: Members
Posts: 5,823
Joined: 20-May 11
From: killa kali
Member No.: 12,336



QUOTE (Franchize @ Jun 26 2012, 11:15 AM) *
If Showtime's cameras were as good as HBO, and they had Michael Buffer, they could freeze HBO out completely lol Is it me or does HBO fights just come out clearer and crisper on TV? Soemthing about the lighting. Epix is the absolute worst in that regards. Also, so wat you will, but a megafight isn't a megafight to me without Michael Buffer.


it is the lighting. i recall one of the telecast where lamps or merchant said something about having twice the lighting...

i don't need it to be perfect. showtimes is just fine for me.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Gambit808
post Jun 26 2012, 12:16 PM
Post #6


Junior Welterweight


Group: Members
Posts: 1,145
Joined: 19-October 11
From: Brooklyn, New York
Member No.: 13,329



Fuck it showtime has been killin it with the fights they've been producing as of late, also having there moments in the past, but to me hbo is where the moneys at & they still have better quality of entertainment if you ask me. 24/7 rather "hit or miss" is still better than fight camp 360, hbo commentator though very bias with there views on some fights give you more to talk about (good or bad) Michael buffer vs jimmy Lennon jr. (come on son) & let's just face it these shows showcase the fight the fighters make the fights, so no matter how you look at it when it comes to fights, there are gonna be days where showtime's got it as well as days where hbo got it. U can find just as many bad fights on showime than on hbo. The only difference is there are more memorable fights on hbo than showtime. But this is a "what have you done for me lately" kind of buisness so I can see where cshel point holds merit.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jack 1000
post Jun 26 2012, 03:27 PM
Post #7


The Consultant


Group: Root Admin
Posts: 9,676
Joined: 2-December 02
Member No.: 14



Good points!

I like HBO better for movies, but I like Showtime better for boxing. I agree with what has been said. Since Dibella left, HBO seems to have been told to "Pom Pom" a star, and they feed that star, C+ competition trying to fatten him up for a $50-$60 PPV. HBO aliens themselves with say Golden Boy or Top Rank, or Mayweather Promotions, and all of their fights feed off of their cheer-leading powerhouses. That's often why when a house fighter loses, HBO will throw him under the bug, unless they can work with the few promoters that they work with to match the star against the same promoter's stable to build him up again. I think that for several years, someone is telling Jim Lamply to cheerlead for the promoter's "favorite" son, because he never used to be like that 15-20 years ago.

If Lou Dibella were still matchmaking the fights, there would be less nut-hugging at HBO, because Lou would look for the best potential for action fights against the strongest competition. HBO seems to reserve all of that for the $60 PPV.

Showtime has the smaller budget, but for boxing, they manage to do more with it. Tyson and King's fighters used to be pom-pomed back when Ferdie Pacheco and Bobby Czyz were at the network, almost as badly as Lamply's crusades for the HBO house fighters now. When Tyson lost, it opened up an avenue of new opportunities with Jay Larkin more willing to buy 1-2 fights rather than the long-term contract that HBO uses.

Despite the nuthugging commentary, HBO shines in having such a long-standing tradition of family oriented people at the network, whom the viewers know and can relate to better than Showtime. People have a strong embedded 30 year tradition of the guys calling fights at HBO. And Lamply may be a damn cheerleader, but when thrilling fights occur and his emotional impact is justified, like for Gatti Wars, or Morales-Barrera's fight series, or the Boxing After Dark Shows, there's no way that Showtime can match that type of intensity and drama.

Jack
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
daprofessor
post Jun 26 2012, 07:00 PM
Post #8


Cruiserweight


Group: Members
Posts: 5,823
Joined: 20-May 11
From: killa kali
Member No.: 12,336



QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ Jun 26 2012, 03:27 PM) *
Good points!

I like HBO better for movies, but I like Showtime better for boxing. I agree with what has been said. Since Dibella left, HBO seems to have been told to "Pom Pom" a star, and they feed that star, C+ competition trying to fatten him up for a $50-$60 PPV. HBO aliens themselves with say Golden Boy or Top Rank, or Mayweather Promotions, and all of their fights feed off of their cheer-leading powerhouses. That's often why when a house fighter loses, HBO will throw him under the bug, unless they can work with the few promoters that they work with to match the star against the same promoter's stable to build him up again. I think that for several years, someone is telling Jim Lamply to cheerlead for the promoter's "favorite" son, because he never used to be like that 15-20 years ago.

If Lou Dibella were still matchmaking the fights, there would be less nut-hugging at HBO, because Lou would look for the best potential for action fights against the strongest competition. HBO seems to reserve all of that for the $60 PPV.

Showtime has the smaller budget, but for boxing, they manage to do more with it. Tyson and King's fighters used to be pom-pomed back when Ferdie Pacheco and Bobby Czyz were at the network, almost as badly as Lamply's crusades for the HBO house fighters now. When Tyson lost, it opened up an avenue of new opportunities with Jay Larkin more willing to buy 1-2 fights rather than the long-term contract that HBO uses.

Despite the nuthugging commentary, HBO shines in having such a long-standing tradition of family oriented people at the network, whom the viewers know and can relate to better than Showtime. People have a strong embedded 30 year tradition of the guys calling fights at HBO. And Lamply may be a damn cheerleader, but when thrilling fights occur and his emotional impact is justified, like for Gatti Wars, or Morales-Barrera's fight series, or the Boxing After Dark Shows, there's no way that Showtime can match that type of intensity and drama.

Jack


ferdie pacheco and bobby czyz > larry merchant and jim lampley

u can have the ass clowns at hbo. the only good thing about hbo is that they have the best fighters....but the matches themselves leave a lot to be desired.

i've had my fill of jim lampley and larry merchant. they are pathetic. if hbo really wanted to make a change for the better they would seek out bobby czyz and hire him immediately!!! he kills everyone at hbo behind the mic.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cshel86
post Jun 26 2012, 09:39 PM
Post #9


"The Meanest Nice Guy"


Group: Moderators
Posts: 13,193
Joined: 11-May 11
From: Wherever Greatness is Bred
Member No.: 12,050



Damn, I need to go back and research DiBella's role with HBO back in the day. I had no idea that he played such a big part in the network. I heard about this matchmaking a couple of times, but now Im hearing it more often, so I'll check into it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
trickster
post Jun 27 2012, 04:58 PM
Post #10


Amateur


Group: Members
Posts: 13
Joined: 17-February 12
Member No.: 13,547



QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jun 26 2012, 08:00 PM) *
ferdie pacheco and bobby czyz > larry merchant and jim lampley



While it can be argued that in the last 2-3 yrs sho has done a betyter job of getting good competitive fights, the above statement is not and was never true. Czyz could be OK but ferdie half the time wold be saying the wrong fighters name.

HBO always had better production. And back in the day of Czyz and pacheco it was sho that was locked into long term non competitive fights with Don King.

Lets not rewrite history.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V   1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 31st July 2014 - 09:14 AM