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> Strength Training, How it can translate to Boxing
mgrover
post May 2 2014, 06:15 PM
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This is a break down of my experience with powerlifting.

I'd boxed for the majority of my teens, had a few amateur fights but not far down the line I dislocated my shoulder, and the last time I laced up a pair of gloves for an actual fight I came in weighing in around 58kg/127lb(Featherweight). That's about right, dimensions wise am a small guy by nature, arms not too long, and with the roadwork and training 3 times a week the weight never even had a chance to make its way back to my body.

After I quit I spent a year dicking about, not exercising seriously at all and I bulked up to 62kg/136lb. That puts me at lightweight, or just over lightweight. That was walking around weight. So after a few months of doing nothing, my weight was stable at 62kg, I started to powerlift. The next 18 months, I gained 10kg/22lb of muscle, mostly in my legs since I squatted and deadlifted a lot. I now weigh in around 71kg, and am cutting as much fat as I can but am having trouble as there isn't much to cut.

I had no fat on me, no ripples, I was lean but boxing wise anytime I sparred I suffered mainly because my stamina was shot. I wasn't tight and stiff like I was told I would be if I lifted, but maybe thats just because I was always relaxed in the ring. The point being is its not uncommon for a man to gain that much weight, at any age. My friend was a 19year old 50kg/110lb manchild(or atleast thats how he looked). After 18 months of powerlifting on a starting program (it was called Starting Strength) he now weights 68kg/149lb.

Now will either of us experience a power increase? I don't think so, for one were both only 20 years of age, so still a lot of growing, but from the lifting no not at all. But what we did successfully do with only decent nights sleep and around 3000 calories, was jump weight classes and fill out a body.

The big three lifts will build mass and strength but not increase the important area for boxing, explosive strength. That must be targeted by Olympic Lifts, since you can't actually complete any of them without an explosive movement. Boxers currently do sprints for explosive strength, I've seen from episodes that Marquez was doing explosive dead lifts (yeah if there done light they can build explosive power), ahead of the Pac fight.

Imagine a boxer carrying out some of these explosive lifts and implementing them into there routine, I think a mix of powerlifting and olympic lifts can easily benefit a fighter physically, first building up a foundation of strength and then improving upon that strength. Am starting do olympic lifts like the clean, and the snatch. I'll probably post an update on how I feel after a couple of weeks cycle.

But its very doable for a fighter to increase there power.
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klonopinz
post May 2 2014, 07:45 PM
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doing power lifts can fuck up your weight and add just enough muscle mass for you to get fatigued in fights from the use of extra oxygen and just enough for it to be hard for you to make weight, maybe forcing you up a weight class where now you dont have as many advantages. i personally believe strength is not that important in boxing, and i believe power doesnt come from muscles, it comes from your core, your legs, and your technique, and you commitment to hurt somebody. marquez knocked pac out not because he did deadlifs, but because he timed pac perfectly after a feint and hit him right on the button with a perfectly executed right hand that pacquiao got hit blind by. you alays get dropped by punches you dont see coming, the ones you see coming just wobble you buyt you dont go down. accuracy and timing is sometimes mistaken for power.
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mgrover
post May 5 2014, 04:29 AM
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Ill disagree, the only way to gain muscle, fat or whatever mass is to be on a caloric surplus, while most boxers are on a deficit or tapering down its very hard for them to gain any weight. So they could always train that before training camp and then proceed to cut. Power does come from your core, legs, which are both a set of muscles (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

You can argue the Marquez example as much as you want, but he caught Pac before in previous fights and hurt him, what was the difference this time around. Accuracy aids power if anything.
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Cshel86
post May 5 2014, 07:28 PM
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I'm not sure MG...I was about 133 in 2005, and I was lifting HEAVY weight, bench pressing about 225 lbs, but I was also sparring with my dad and a couple of his friends, at least twice a week. I don't if that helps, but that extra weight and muscle didnt help me at all.

I had to cut some extreme muscle, which took a lot me cutting carbs and such...cant say that it feels good...felt weak. I couldn't walk around feeling like I couldn't punch, because of some weight, beers, and not giving a fuck. Lol

Sounds like you only took a year off...I took waaaay more time off than that. lol
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happygocampy
post May 7 2014, 01:08 AM
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I certainly don't have all the answers you seek but this post fascinated me.

Typically when you goto a regular gym today you'll notice just about everyone working out is taking short cuts, they all pretty much have bad form, many of them not realizing it and the ones that do don't care, they just want to look good. When you do weight training true proper form is difficult, your body, or you, constantly want to find the path of least resistance. In that case without proper form you lose flexibility which is the big age old bane of why you hear weight training is bad for boxing, people often describing as the tightness and stiffness that will happen.

My dad had this buddy who was an ex Marine, 6'6 weighed somewhere around 250+ and the guy was ripped, he did a light version of body building type weight training, something you definitely wouldn't do for Boxing at all, but he was always talking about how he was more flexible than any guy with muscles you would ever meet because he had proper form, and he wasn't joking, he'd stretch his arms out and his fore arm would bend just slightly backward beyond his upper arms in a way you would only expect to see some young kid do and it was because he focused on full form lifting. He was a huge fan of Vince Gironda and did a lot of the awkward lifting techniques he taught (mostly considered quackery today but probly has more merit than the modern methods). The guy could fight too, my dad always tells this story of how they were on a construction job and some none union goons showed up to run them off the job, My dad, this Marine buddy and 1 other guy were working one of the floors at the time and were confronted by 8 goons, my dad and the other guy were back to back fending off 2 guys, while the Marine knocked the other 6 out cold and the other 2 ran off after they realized what was happening. My dad thought they were in for a beating and couldn't believe what he saw, lol. Not sure how much if any exaggeration there is to that story but is funny to hear him tell it.

Anyway, I've always wondered if there was room in Boxing for the low rep high weight strength results type training with proper form. The only fighter i can remember off the top of my head implementing something like that was Chris Byrd and he certainly didn't lose any flexibility or speed, nor did i notice it impact his Stamina. He wasn't exactly knocking more guys out either though so, lol, i dunno. Interesting to ponder though nonetheless.
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mgrover
post May 9 2014, 09:01 AM
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I think with top heavy exercises sure, flexibility will become an issue, when a single muscle area is isolated.

But exercises like the deadlift and squat use as many muscles as possible while maintaining flexibility, and the olympic lifts produce a lot of power, but thats generated from the explosion since these exercises can't be carried out without a quick explosive movement, something am sure boxers would benefit from.
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checkleft
post May 9 2014, 11:51 AM
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Powerlifting will def mess with stamina. But you're right about dead lifting squatting and Olympic press. Great exercise for boxers, along with power clings. Ortiz, who I hate mentioning, did a lot of lifting and he kept a lot of his speed strength and stamina as well.

and an example of boxers gone wrong do to power lifting could be khan berto.. But to me power clings helped me the most.
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mgrover
post May 10 2014, 07:07 AM
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I agree powerlifting wouldn't help the case, but squatting and deadlifting 2/3rds powerlifting exercises. While a boxer doesn't need to bench press, ever, I've noticed as your chest expands it becomes harder to hold a guard. But still very flexible after squatting and deadlifting
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daprofessor
post May 18 2014, 11:47 PM
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a solid punch comes from proper form. speed, accuracy and timing are all very important. it all starts with the feet. you have to tie your body together as that punch is delivered. you do that by sitting on the punch. what that means is having a slight bend in your knees and waist. your feet should be firmly planted. if they aren't...there's a disconnect. the core of your body along with trunk rotation and the accuracy of the punch all come into play. how much you weigh...how tall or short you are...it's all meaningless. the better you can tie these things together...the better your punch will be.

as for marquez not really landing those kind of shots on pacquiao before....it's simple. in the previous 3 fights...marquez was boxing, using foot movement and never really planted his feet or used aggression because he was always looking to make pac miss. in the final bout he was much more aggressive and stood his ground using timing. we all saw what happened.
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