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> "If it wasn't for me the game would be dead" - Muhammad Ali, A few questions on the G.O.A.T.
wolterb
post Feb 3 2013, 07:03 PM
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I should've said "completely accurate"...can't say nothin bad about the man - he just liked to switch it up lol
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Cheesey1
post Feb 3 2013, 11:32 PM
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QUOTE (daprofessor @ Feb 3 2013, 03:43 AM) *
i don't believe his in the ring exploits alone are what make him the greatest...it's a combination of all he has done in and out of the ring. no athlete on his level has ever gave it all up for what he believed in and won!!! he will forever be the greatest imo.

That's cool. When I was a boy I remember having arguments with friends that Ali could beat some superheroes (they had a comic about Ali vs. Superman), but he could never test the Hulk though.
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Cheesey1
post Feb 3 2013, 11:34 PM
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QUOTE (duwdu @ Feb 3 2013, 05:22 AM) *
+1.

Plus, he was such a good role model of an upright family man, with no marriage vices that I know about. I don't remember whether his conversion to Islam had an influence on him in that respect, or if he was naturally so.

Ali neither learnt nor knew/know how to read, yet he was very sharp of intellect with regards to politics, religion, and popular science; he bested his interviewers greater than 90% of the time in my estimation, and voiced the most catchy and memorable poems and prose ever by any sportsman, dead or alive.

"I float like a butterfly,
Sting like a bee."

"....telling all the people out there
Who're betting on Sonny
That I'm gonna lose their money."

"It's gonna be
A thriller,
And a chiller,
When I meet the Gorilla,
In Manila."

"I predict that tonight [vs Liston, 1] somebody will die at ringside from shock!"

Overall, Ali made it such a thrilling era.

Were it not for his brushes with the then law and establishment, there would never have been any controversy or disagreement over Ali's uniqueness or greatness. But then, there would not have been the complete package, "Ali."

P34c3

Supposedly the complications from Parkinson's are really affecting him now. His brother just said that he might only have months, or possibly even days left. Hopefully not.
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BrutUalBK
post Feb 4 2013, 12:03 PM
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QUOTE (Gambit808 @ Feb 2 2013, 09:38 PM) *
Good Post.

In terms of all around skill, who would you say ranks better?



1. Mayweather
2. Leonard
3. Robinson
4. Hopkins
5. Whitaker
6. Pep

There weren't very many but these guys on my list were better at combining defense and offense together, Ali for all his declared greatness had many flaws in his game; his defense though effective was hardly on the level of those mentioned above and his footwork (though fast) was flawed when he had to counter backwards wasn't always correct(sometimes his feet came together making him off-balance), there were other things like no shoulder roll, he didn't ever cage when trapped against the ropes and he kept his left hand very low and pulled straight back when left hooks came at him (the reason why Frazier knocked him down in their 1st bout).

I love Ali though, he was a true warrior, he fought everybody and never dodged, ducked or made any excuses not to fight anyone, he took it as great as he gave it and he never got into the kind of skirmishes with the law that these modern day fighters seem to get into so in that sense he was a model citizen as well.
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Gambit808
post Feb 4 2013, 01:39 PM
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QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Feb 4 2013, 12:03 PM) *
1. Mayweather
2. Leonard
3. Robinson
4. Hopkins
5. Whitaker
6. Pep

There weren't very many but these guys on my list were better at combining defense and offense together, Ali for all his declared greatness had many flaws in his game; his defense though effective was hardly on the level of those mentioned above and his footwork (though fast) was flawed when he had to counter backwards wasn't always correct(sometimes his feet came together making him off-balance), there were other things like no shoulder roll, he didn't ever cage when trapped against the ropes and he kept his left hand very low and pulled straight back when left hooks came at him (the reason why Frazier knocked him down in their 1st bout).

I love Ali though, he was a true warrior, he fought everybody and never dodged, ducked or made any excuses not to fight anyone, he took it as great as he gave it and he never got into the kind of skirmishes with the law that these modern day fighters seem to get into so in that sense he was a model citizen as well.

Good List that is hard to argue.

When you speak on his foot work though, wouldn't you say that a more primed Ali would slip those left hook from Joe, had Ali not be 2 fights into a 3 year layoff? I mean of coarse I wasent even alive during this era so I use some of my spare time studying some of the greats, and I remember how Cus put it when watching Ali Spar. He was talking with Angelo and he said something along the line of, "Ali use to use one step to get out of the way of shots, where as in the Ali they were watching, would use two steps"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scnk9-xHRMA

Ali like Roy Jones used his athleticism to conquer in his prime and after the layoff, I believe, not only effected that, but also his timing of coarse.
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daprofessor
post Feb 4 2013, 03:16 PM
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QUOTE (Cheesey1 @ Feb 4 2013, 12:32 AM) *
That's cool. When I was a boy I remember having arguments with friends that Ali could beat some superheroes (they had a comic about Ali vs. Superman), but he could never test the Hulk though.


no way in the world ali loses to superman or the hulk. he'd beat them mentally before they ever even step foot in the ring.
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BrutUalBK
post Feb 4 2013, 04:07 PM
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QUOTE (Gambit808 @ Feb 4 2013, 01:39 PM) *
Good List that is hard to argue.

When you speak on his foot work though, wouldn't you say that a more primed Ali would slip those left hook from Joe, had Ali not be 2 fights into a 3 year layoff? I mean of coarse I wasent even alive during this era so I use some of my spare time studying some of the greats, and I remember how Cus put it when watching Ali Spar. He was talking with Angelo and he said something along the line of, "Ali use to use one step to get out of the way of shots, where as in the Ali they were watching, would use two steps"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scnk9-xHRMA

Ali like Roy Jones used his athleticism to conquer in his prime and after the layoff, I believe, not only effected that, but also his timing of coarse.



I agree with Cus, that lockout from boxing kinda took a step or two from the Ali of his youth but it did help him to gain more intellect not only in life but in the ring as well but to answer your question regarding Ali's ability to slip the left hook then I'd have to say this that it was all in the basic fundamentals (of which Ali had his flaws). Roy Jones was fundamentally flawed in many more ways than even Ali was but prime or no prime a boxer who mastered the basics of defense/slipping punches should know how to avoid those left hooks by not going straight back regardless of whether or not he or she has the ability to slip them (blocking them would've been just as effective).

Use Floyd's ability that even when he doesn't get out of the way of shots he usually blocks them or even rolls with them to take away their effectiveness, why Ali never was able to do that with Frazier's left hook? Simple, because he lacked that basic fundamental that he should've known how to either block, duck or roll with the shot (if it connected).

As far as Roy's more obvious lack of fundamentals on his defense then let's just say that regarding his timing that he simply lost a step to Father Time, the basic fundamentals he never mastered on defense at all. Roy willingly went to the ropes, always brought both feet together, rarely roll the shoulders or even with shots when they connected, but his speed/timing when he was younger was a sight to behold, brilliant ability to unleash a barrage of combination punching rarely seen.

Roy's offensive abilities were hardly ever questioned, it was his defensive inability that was his downfall, just compare him to Hopkins' abilities defensive-wise and you'll see what I mean.
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mgrover
post Feb 4 2013, 04:45 PM
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slip the left hook? I thought it was roll the hook. slip the jab etc etc

This post has been edited by mgrover: Feb 4 2013, 04:45 PM
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daprofessor
post Feb 4 2013, 07:50 PM
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QUOTE (mgrover @ Feb 4 2013, 05:45 PM) *
slip the left hook? I thought it was roll the hook. slip the jab etc etc


typically...a taller man doesn't want to roll under the hook of a shorter man unless he wants to get ko'd. ali liked to pull back from big hooks. that was also dangerous but because of his great feet and cat like reflexes it worked for him. a solid block could have done the trick.
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BrutUalBK
post Feb 4 2013, 09:51 PM
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QUOTE (mgrover @ Feb 4 2013, 03:45 PM) *
slip the left hook? I thought it was roll the hook. slip the jab etc etc



You're absolutely correct, it is slip the jab or parry the jab and/or even catch the jab and it is always either roll with the hook, block it or avoid it altogether. Semantics though, I know what he was trying to say and it's just as the DaProfessor stated. A tall guy shouldn't try to duck under the hook, especially if it is coming from a shorter man (he may just duck right into the punch).

For all of his (Ali's) lack of solid fundamentals he did beat some of the best out there and was never KO'd.
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