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> Is B.J. Penn a Top 10 ATG?
The CEO
post Aug 29 2010, 12:03 AM
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I dooon't knooowww....

You got...in no particular order...


Royce Gracie

Matt Hughes

Fedor

Shogun

Wanderlei Silva

Sakuraba

Anderson Silva

GSP

Randy Couture


then Kimo and Penn maybe?

LOL
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Warlord
post Aug 29 2010, 03:14 AM
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QUOTE (The CEO @ Aug 29 2010, 12:03 AM) *
I dooon't knooowww....

You got...in no particular order...


Royce Gracie

Matt Hughes

Fedor

Shogun

Wanderlei Silva

Sakuraba

Anderson Silva

GSP

Randy Couture


then Kimo and Penn maybe?

LOL

From a skill standpoint, yes, he most certainly is.

From an achievement standpoint, at this point, I would say no. Penn is a perennial under-achiever. I actually think he needs to go up to welterweight. BJ needs an insurmountable challenge to get himself up for fights these days, and that isn't really ever gonna be the case at lightweight.

P.S. Royce is an all-time great, but I don't quite know how long we can continue to justify putting him in the upper-echelon. The sport passed him by pretty quickly. This is coming from a massive Gracie fan as well. I might even put Rickson on that list before Royce.

Rickson showed a much more well-rounded game, even if he didn't do it on as big a stage.
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The CEO
post Aug 29 2010, 11:05 AM
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QUOTE (Warlord @ Aug 29 2010, 04:14 AM) *
From a skill standpoint, yes, he most certainly is.

From an achievement standpoint, at this point, I would say no. Penn is a perennial under-achiever. I actually think he needs to go up to welterweight. BJ needs an insurmountable challenge to get himself up for fights these days, and that isn't really ever gonna be the case at lightweight.

P.S. Royce is an all-time great, but I don't quite know how long we can continue to justify putting him in the upper-echelon. The sport passed him by pretty quickly. This is coming from a massive Gracie fan as well. I might even put Rickson on that list before Royce.

Rickson showed a much more well-rounded game, even if he didn't do it on as big a stage.


That's a fair assessment...at his best, his skills are undeniable...

but all things considered, I can't put him in The Top 10 now...MIGHT have had him at #10 before he met Frankie Edgar though...lol

I think last night was very crucial to his Legacy...winning that rematch convincingly would have said a lot...he should have known that and been up for it.


I also agree about Royce.....I'd say putting him on a pedestal for at least another 8 years would be sufficient...giving him the Jack Johnson treatment on a shorter time line per se....
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thehype
post Aug 29 2010, 12:42 PM
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I concur with pretty much everything that's already been said.

He completely laid an egg against Edgar. He kind of looked like that old fighter hoping to win by landing that one punch. His game plan didn't change at all. Methinks he needs to reassess his training camp and maybe think about working with some different folks. He's a very stubborn guy though, so I don't see him doing that.
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Mean Mister Must...
post Aug 29 2010, 07:05 PM
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QUOTE (thehype @ Aug 29 2010, 01:42 PM) *
I concur with pretty much everything that's already been said.

He completely laid an egg against Edgar. He kind of looked like that old fighter hoping to win by landing that one punch. His game plan didn't change at all. Methinks he needs to reassess his training camp and maybe think about working with some different folks. He's a very stubborn guy though, so I don't see him doing that.


Yes he is. An example would be his claim that GSP was greased up during their rematch, and that is why he was so soundly beaten.

Perhaps at this stage of his career, after two consecutive losses, he will reevaluate his training regimen. Then again, maybe Edgar was just a bad style for him.
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Run and Gun Game...
post Nov 30 2010, 09:21 PM
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top 10, i say yes I put him above


Matt Hughes

Shogun

Wanderlei Silva

and

Sakuraba

This post has been edited by Run and Gun Game Calls: Nov 30 2010, 09:23 PM
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kidbazooka1
post Dec 1 2010, 01:01 AM
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Unfortunatly I have to agree with War on this one. LOL

Rickson although not aswell known as Royce to the average fan was much more well rounded and had superior BJJ(even Royce admitted this)definitly belongs in the top 10 and i would have to put BJ above Hughes aswell.
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Warlord
post Dec 1 2010, 02:59 AM
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QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ Nov 30 2010, 10:21 PM) *
top 10, i say yes I put him above


Matt Hughes

Shogun

Wanderlei Silva

and

Sakuraba

No way he goes above Shogun, Silva, or Sakuraba. Sakuraba and Silva are top 5, Shogun is not far behind. They all have better comp records than B.J.
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Warlord
post Dec 1 2010, 03:00 AM
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QUOTE (kidbazooka1 @ Dec 1 2010, 02:01 AM) *
Unfortunatly I have to agree with War on this one. LOL

Why is that unfortunate? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

QUOTE
Rickson although not aswell known as Royce to the average fan was much more well rounded and had superior BJJ(even Royce admitted this)definitly belongs in the top 10 and i would have to put BJ above Hughes aswell.

Rickson is the best of the Gracies. By far.
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Run and Gun Game...
post Dec 1 2010, 08:31 AM
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QUOTE (Warlord @ Dec 1 2010, 06:59 AM) *
No way he goes above Shogun, Silva, or Sakuraba. Sakuraba and Silva are top 5, Shogun is not far behind. They all have better comp records than B.J.


Sakuraba like royce won when alot of guys were still brawling instead of fighting true mma. While sakuraba was a good fighter with alot of good wins, put in in a ring prime v/s prime against BJ and I think BJ penn wins, but that would be an incredable fight.

Wanderlei silva though in my opinion isnt close to BJ Penn all time. Silva lost almost every time he stepped up. He did decision dan henderson, and owned Jackson when Jackson was coming up. And beat up a much smaller sakuraba. but other than that he lost to belfort by tko, tito ortiz, mark hunt and ricardo arona???? really? Lost to chuck liddel, jackson, and rich franklin. Way over rated. Most of his wins were against underqualified fighters in pride.

BJ penn beat well rounded fighters like, florian, sherk, hughes (in hughes prime), Sanchez, stevenson, renzo and rodrogo gracie, gomi (in his prime), serra, uno, and din thomas.

The good old days in mma were not so good. You had a few well rounded fighters who dominated the game over guys who had no clue how to defend themselves. The guys on BJ penns resume are far superior to anything Walderlei accomplished.


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