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> Is he better now or then?? Is his legs gone?? (Floyd Mayweather), Did he lose a step or two?? You be the Judge
neophyte7
post Feb 19 2013, 12:03 PM
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In boxing you don't need foot speed. You need good balance and the ability to use your legs when necessary. His ability to box and move is still the best in the game. People say his legs were gone in the Ortiz fight??? please Floyd looked tremendous in that fight - hand and foot. I recall him unloading what seemed to be a 10 punch combo on Victor I believe in round three. Ortiz resorted to fouling for a reason.. He could not maul Floyd and was getting drilled with bomb right hands. I think Floyd can still move a great deal in a fight, yet there has been no reason to. Fighters still are not able to land enough quality punches. Cotto bloodied his nose, but really how many clean power shots did he land? Floyd did not have a world beating connect percentage on Cotto yet he clearly landed many more flush hard and damaging shots. Floyd simply does not get hit enough in damaging fashion to be beaten at this point. Even when guys look like they are landing shots, they often are rolled and slipped... No need to waste energy moving at 36 conserve the wheels. But yes, his legs were definitely good in the mosely fight- those legs and his saavy awareness allowed him to remain on his feet from some monster shane mosley shots. We saw what those same shots eventually did to Margarito- problem was Shane was not able to land any meaningful punches thereafter against the best defensive fighter ever-

This post has been edited by neophyte7: Feb 19 2013, 12:04 PM
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bnoles4life
post Feb 19 2013, 12:26 PM
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QUOTE (MaxPayne @ Feb 19 2013, 06:11 AM) *
I don't buy this.

He was using his wheels in the Cotto fight, specifically rounds 9 through 12.

When we say that a fighter's "legs are gone", we're suggesting that they can't move and keep a certain pace far into a fight. That's not the case with Floyd right now.

Now, is he as fleet of foot as he was 10 years ago ? Fuck no.

But his current foot speed is still better than 95% of the fighters anywhere near his weight class.


Pretty much spit the same thing out a few posts ago.
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bnoles4life
post Feb 19 2013, 12:27 PM
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QUOTE (neophyte7 @ Feb 19 2013, 12:03 PM) *
In boxing you don't need foot speed. You need good balance and the ability to use your legs when necessary. His ability to box and move is still the best in the game. People say his legs were gone in the Ortiz fight??? please Floyd looked tremendous in that fight - hand and foot. I recall him unloading what seemed to be a 10 punch combo on Victor I believe in round three. Ortiz resorted to fouling for a reason.. He could not maul Floyd and was getting drilled with bomb right hands. I think Floyd can still move a great deal in a fight, yet there has been no reason to. Fighters still are not able to land enough quality punches. Cotto bloodied his nose, but really how many clean power shots did he land? Floyd did not have a world beating connect percentage on Cotto yet he clearly landed many more flush hard and damaging shots. Floyd simply does not get hit enough in damaging fashion to be beaten at this point. Even when guys look like they are landing shots, they often are rolled and slipped... No need to waste energy moving at 36 conserve the wheels. But yes, his legs were definitely good in the mosely fight- those legs and his saavy awareness allowed him to remain on his feet from some monster shane mosley shots. We saw what those same shots eventually did to Margarito- problem was Shane was not able to land any meaningful punches thereafter against the best defensive fighter ever-


Co-sign the majority of this.
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bnoles4life
post Feb 19 2013, 12:31 PM
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QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Feb 15 2013, 11:07 PM) *
I agree, he put on a boxing clinic and IMO he will never look that great again.


There's no shame in that, b/c if you think about it, that's a taaaaaaaall order. He was flawless in that fight, care to guess how hard it is to duplicate perfection? Plus, he's established and there aren't many "stalk and destroy" fighters out there, willing to just get picked apart in hopes of landing A single shot on him. I think he's already proved that game plan to not be worth the paper it's printed on. LOL.
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BrutUalBK
post Feb 19 2013, 05:54 PM
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QUOTE (bnoles4life @ Feb 19 2013, 12:31 PM) *
There's no shame in that, b/c if you think about it, that's a taaaaaaaall order. He was flawless in that fight, care to guess how hard it is to duplicate perfection? Plus, he's established and there aren't many "stalk and destroy" fighters out there, willing to just get picked apart in hopes of landing A single shot on him. I think he's already proved that game plan to not be worth the paper it's printed on. LOL.



I agree there's no shame but in terms of how he fought that fight it should be recognized that he'll never have a signature performance like that. Floyd barely got hit at all in that bout, plus he made Corrales miss something like 8 jabs (who misses with a jab??) and that rarely happens in boxing.

Though i believe he has lost a step (due to age) I still believe his skills are well-rounded enough to deal with anyone in the sport in his weight classes so though he's lost some measure of mobility (however small) he is still as effective as ever offensively but tends to get hit (though not always cleanly) more often than he did at 130.
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sduck
post Feb 22 2013, 07:23 AM
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Nope, nope, nope, and...NOPE!

The only clear decline I see and still ever saw is punching power. His reflexes look sharper in some fights than other fights... It's called human consistency. You also have to look at the way people fight. Styles make fights guys, stop forgetting this. People make too big of a deal out of some performances. Like Corrales for example was tailor made for the way Floyd chose to fight. Not taking anything from Floyd, giving him credit for pulling the performance off as good as he did, but that fight itself doesn't just determine how else he'd do against other fighters.

Why do people still mention the Castillo fight as if there wasn't TWO fights?
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BrutUalBK
post Feb 22 2013, 06:44 PM
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QUOTE (sduck @ Feb 22 2013, 07:23 AM) *
Nope, nope, nope, and...NOPE!

The only clear decline I see and still ever saw is 1. punching power. His reflexes look sharper in some fights than other fights... It's called human consistency. You also have to look at the way people fight. Styles make fights guys, stop forgetting this. People make too big of a deal out of some performances. Like Corrales for example was tailor made for the way Floyd chose to fight. Not taking anything from Floyd, giving him credit for pulling the performance off as good as he did, but that fight itself doesn't just determine how else he'd do against other fighters.

2. Why do people still mention the Castillo fight as if there wasn't TWO fights?



1. I don't think Floyd has lost punching power (see the Ortiz KO for reference), I do believe that he has never been a big puncher but one who's punches come very quickly and the speed of which they come are stunning/surprising to the opponent. I always believed that it was possible for Floyd to KO many of his opponents but he never really sets down on his shots and that is why his punching power isn't perceived to be as good<<<the Ortiz punch KO dispells that myth.

2. Most of us only mention that fight because it is one in which many felt he lost and if not, at least it was probably his most closely contested fight, as much a fan I'am of his I have to admit that I felt he lost that fight but wasn't dominated/beaten. In the rematch he made it obvious that he won.
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Dolimite
post Feb 22 2013, 07:25 PM
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QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Feb 22 2013, 03:44 PM) *
1. I don't think Floyd has lost punching power (see the Ortiz KO for reference), I do believe that he has never been a big puncher but one who's punches come very quickly and the speed of which they come are stunning/surprising to the opponent. I always believed that it was possible for Floyd to KO many of his opponents but he never really sets down on his shots and that is why his punching power isn't perceived to be as good<<<the Ortiz punch KO dispells that myth.

2. Most of us only mention that fight because it is one in which many felt he lost and if not, at least it was probably his most closely contested fight, as much a fan I'am of his I have to admit that I felt he lost that fight but wasn't dominated/beaten. In the rematch he made it obvious that he won.


Dude I still have trouble judging that first fight. I actually looked at it as a draw. I do not think Castillo fought a clean fight and in the end it cost him. The second fight was no contest win for Mayweather. But that is the hardest fight I ever had to judge. Your honesty is appreciated. Some Floyd fans think that he was perfect in that first fight. I thought it was a draw, plus I do give him a slight pass because of his shoulder injury.
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sduck
post Feb 22 2013, 09:46 PM
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QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Feb 22 2013, 06:44 PM) *
1. I don't think Floyd has lost punching power (see the Ortiz KO for reference), I do believe that he has never been a big puncher but one who's punches come very quickly and the speed of which they come are stunning/surprising to the opponent. I always believed that it was possible for Floyd to KO many of his opponents but he never really sets down on his shots and that is why his punching power isn't perceived to be as good<<<the Ortiz punch KO dispells that myth.

2. Most of us only mention that fight because it is one in which many felt he lost and if not, at least it was probably his most closely contested fight, as much a fan I'am of his I have to admit that I felt he lost that fight but wasn't dominated/beaten. In the rematch he made it obvious that he won.

I've watched all of Floyd's fights, all 43 of them. He has consistency issues over all, and is the most versatile fighter I've ever seen. It's easy to nitpick fights and judge from those, but for someone like Floyd you can't do that very accurately. The only true decline I've saw was his punching power, which is also another thing that seems to be inconsistent. He was known to be a power puncher in his earlier fights, which gambles between fights which I said was his consistency. It didn't completely diminish until his return in 2009 with the Marquez fight and on. And uh, Ortiz obviously lost his head and gave up the fight. Dude barely tried to get up and just smiled as he was counted out.
(For further reference on consistency, it's like how he battered Gatti or Corley, looking much stronger compared to many other fights... Or how he looked feather-fisted against Baldomir compared to his fights with Judah and De La Hoya... These are only some examples, but part of it over all is probably him choosing to hit harder in some fights compared to others, or being force too based on the style and whatnot. But he also states things like him going for the knockout in his fights with Marquez and Mosley, but then it looked clear to me his punching power just couldn't hold up to how he wanted like in previous bouts.)

The issue I see with people always mentioning that fight, is how they ignore the significance of the second fight. And when they do acknowledge the second fight, it's just put simple, "oh well he proved all doubt". Both fighters fought just about exactly the same way in both fights, it wasn't flat out "experience" improvement (like on defense) as I see many people keep saying, Floyd was just sharper and more on point with his game, and made Castillo look more ordinary compared to the first fight. The only real experience accounted for there was knowing Castillo more as a fighter from the first bout.

This post has been edited by sduck: Feb 22 2013, 09:51 PM
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Dolimite
post Feb 23 2013, 12:21 AM
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QUOTE (sduck @ Feb 22 2013, 06:46 PM) *
I've watched all of Floyd's fights, all 43 of them. He has consistency issues over all, and is the most versatile fighter I've ever seen. It's easy to nitpick fights and judge from those, but for someone like Floyd you can't do that very accurately. The only true decline I've saw was his punching power, which is also another thing that seems to be inconsistent. He was known to be a power puncher in his earlier fights, which gambles between fights which I said was his consistency. It didn't completely diminish until his return in 2009 with the Marquez fight and on. And uh, Ortiz obviously lost his head and gave up the fight. Dude barely tried to get up and just smiled as he was counted out.
(For further reference on consistency, it's like how he battered Gatti or Corley, looking much stronger compared to many other fights... Or how he looked feather-fisted against Baldomir compared to his fights with Judah and De La Hoya... These are only some examples, but part of it over all is probably him choosing to hit harder in some fights compared to others, or being force too based on the style and whatnot. But he also states things like him going for the knockout in his fights with Marquez and Mosley, but then it looked clear to me his punching power just couldn't hold up to how he wanted like in previous bouts.)

The issue I see with people always mentioning that fight, is how they ignore the significance of the second fight. And when they do acknowledge the second fight, it's just put simple, "oh well he proved all doubt". Both fighters fought just about exactly the same way in both fights, it wasn't flat out "experience" improvement (like on defense) as I see many people keep saying, Floyd was just sharper and more on point with his game, and made Castillo look more ordinary compared to the first fight. The only real experience accounted for there was knowing Castillo more as a fighter from the first bout.


I know Floyd complained of his hands being brittle and breaking. I know that is why he doesn't always go for the knockout. Unlike Broner, Floyd's hands are not made of stone, but his knockout percentage is still high. Good points.
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