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> JMM vs Mayweather 2, How well would Marquez fair now against him?
sduck
post Dec 30 2012, 01:04 PM
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No offense to KOpower, but I just want to say you guys handled that ignorance well. Came off looking like educated boxing fans and not flomos, good job.
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sduck
post Dec 30 2012, 01:29 PM
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QUOTE (mgrover @ Dec 29 2012, 08:05 PM) *
Please stop your making Pac fans like me look bad.

There are three people to blame for this I think, Mayweather, Pac and Arum.

Mayweather - daprofessor already said it, I don't understand why Mayweather was so intent on smearing Pac with the whole PED bullshit but it obviously didn't work whether it be trash talk or not.

Arum - He's the biggest reason for this fight not happening, he didn't want to cash in Pac just yet, not against Mayweather and Al Haymon, now he can't cash in Pac, that chips worthless so hes lost out.

Pac - Just before Marquez 4 he had the chance to leave Top Rank, but it seems a trick with 50 cent and some shit convinced him that a Mayweather fight was being made? WTF is this motherfucking this stupid, this is whats pissed me off his entire career, this guy is too nice, stupid or whatever for his own good, because boxing business isn't hard work, I don't understand why people say Mayweather is a business man, he isn't shit, Al Haymons behind all that. It's simple, everyone in boxing is out for there's and the sooner you understand that the sooner you can make money when your in a good position, ie a decent fan base and some decent wins and titles. So I don't understand why Pac was so gullible to believe that Arum didn't have his own agenda. I know he likes to be a nice guy and all that shit, but really? Can a governor of a state of his country be that fucking stupid. He seems like a puppet whose a shadow of power to be used. Thats it.

I have to disagree on that. Mayweather has done pretty well for himself as an athlete whole for history's sake. It's not like he's Al Haymon's only fighter. Mayweather doesn't talk much about his income outside of boxing, but I have heard him mention in interviews about other investments, like his real estate team. Real Estate is the greatest lifelong investment anyone can make.
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BrutUalBK
post Dec 30 2012, 08:04 PM
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QUOTE (Gambit808 @ Dec 28 2012, 05:49 PM) *
Look I don't wanna be a buzz kill here, but there is nothing that warrants Marquez (besides money) to be in a rematch with Floyd. Besides Pacquiao whom he fought 4 times he hasent fought a credible opponent he didn't already know since Katsidis 2010. Unlike Pacquiao, when Floyd fought Marquez and Knocked him down, Marquez didn't get back up and start to figure out Mayweather. it was Pretty Much Down hill from the opening bell. Besides Power, Timing & Beard, everything else about Marquez of old as oppose to the new is faded. Mayweather & Marquez are both counter punchers and if there fight showed anything it's that Floyd is better Offensively, Defensively and timing as opposed to Marquez all with a 2 year layoff. Check the stats!

First fight against Pacquiao he gets knocked down 3 times figures him out... Draw

2nd fight he gets knocked down 1 time figures him out even had Pacquiao hurt a few times... SD Pacquiao

3rd fight... Well he already had him figured in the 1st 2 fights, this time he avoids getting knocked down... MD Pacquiao

4th fight... Well he should have his pace down now over a 8 year span all it takes is power and timing... KO Marquez

Point is, a KO of a normally Offensive fighter who hadnt really changed pace in all 4 fights and arguably was solved in 3 of em, shouldn't be seen as the ultimate reason Marquez can do anything dramatic if he rematched Floyd. Thats like saying Auturo Gatti deserved a rematch. He was clearly beaten.

No one here disputes that JMM was clearly beaten by Floyd at all but this is boxing and in this business you have to strike while it's hot and right now there is no other fighter on the current scene hotter than JMM after his stunning KO of Pacquiao.

I never suggested that JMM could beat Floyd or do any better in the rematch for that matter regardless of those who think weight was an issue and despite Marquez's better strength and conditioning regimen and his so called "adjustment to the weight" but again, this is boxing and JMM did beat the man who some of these blinded Pacquiao fans are saying that he (Floyd) was afraid to face and when you couple the rousing KO victory in with that notion you can see how the Promoters could spin this into some type of superbout (though those of us who really know the sport knows Floyd just gives us an encore performance).

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mgrover
post Dec 30 2012, 08:58 PM
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QUOTE (sduck @ Dec 30 2012, 06:29 PM) *
I have to disagree on that. Mayweather has done pretty well for himself as an athlete whole for history's sake. It's not like he's Al Haymon's only fighter. Mayweather doesn't talk much about his income outside of boxing, but I have heard him mention in interviews about other investments, like his real estate team. Real Estate is the greatest lifelong investment anyone can make.


fair enough I didn't know that. but the point still stands, everyone in boxing is out for there's. Mayweather understands this to say the least, so I don't understand why Pac doesn't seem to?
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Dolimite
post Dec 30 2012, 11:42 PM
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QUOTE (mgrover @ Dec 30 2012, 06:58 PM) *
fair enough I didn't know that. but the point still stands, everyone in boxing is out for there's. Mayweather understands this to say the least, so I don't understand why Pac doesn't seem to?


Because 8 million dollars goes a very long way in his country. Some people are not business savvy. Jack Johnson got ripped off, Joe Louis did as well, Mike Tyson was raped out of hundreds of millions. Some boxers are smarter businessmen. Mayweather seems to be the type to ask questions, I think Manny like so many others trust the wrong people. I don't think it is because he is a nice guy or humble, I just think he doesn't know any better. The guy never had an education, he is from the gutter he is doing very well for himself. I just hope he doesn't have to fight to make ends meat.
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Gambit808
post Dec 31 2012, 01:28 AM
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[quote name='BrutUalBK' date='Dec 30 2012, 8:04 PM' post='571408']
this is boxing and JMM did beat the man who some of these blinded Pacquiao fans are saying that he (Floyd) was afraid to face and when you couple the rousing KO victory in with that notion you can see how the Promoters could spin this into some type of superbout (though those of us who really know the sport knows Floyd just gives us an encore performance).
[\quote]
I understand your point, I just don't understand the point lol

Probably because I am a fan of boxing. It sounds like (to me) it would add on to Boxing's many flaws suggesting "no matter how one-sided or shut-out a fighter is beaten, if u beat another guy u already fought more times than 1, then u can be back in the picture of a rematch with the guy who dominated u"

It's just that my understanding of a rematch should be warranted if (the loser) Fighter A, gave hell to (the winner) Fighter B enough to convince that he has a shot at turning the tables the next time out, not what Fighter A does to Fighter C, Follow?
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checkleft
post Dec 31 2012, 01:31 AM
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QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 29 2012, 07:28 PM) *
your are losing credibility by the second....just leave it alone man. it's clear that u are not educated enough on this topic when u start to interject stephen smith into your argument. again....feel free to learn more about boxing. your opinion does matter here, just not on this particular subject because u really don't know what you're talking about.


+1

Anybody who cites smith or skip.... Matter of fact anybody from ESPN with the exception of atlas needs to educate themselves more on the sweet science. As roger would say, "they don't know shit about boxing".
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BoxingFan86
post Dec 31 2012, 04:58 AM
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QUOTE (KOpower @ Dec 29 2012, 03:28 PM) *
What the hell are you talking about?

Look, Manny offered Floyd more money and he aid he would take ANY test he would want. Manny has never ducked anyone. Say what you want but the guy has fought them all. Floyd continued to deny the fight. I never thought Floyd was scared until I saw Manny come out in public and tell Floyd he would agree to all of his stipulations. Floyd's response? Quiet. That's it. That was when I had enough. Enough is enough. Floyd loves to brag about the money he makes, yet he refuses to fight the guy that would give him the biggest payday of his entire career after that same guy was giving in to almost EVERY single stipulation that Floyd put in place.

Manny was actually very respectful of Floyd. He didn't even want to call the guy out. Matter of fact Floyd nut-hugger Stephen A. Smith even conceded that Floyd was scared.

It has nothing to do with hate, racism, or envy. Floyd is just scared to fight Manny. It is a shame because he is so talented, but I think Floyd is so concerned with the idea of a loss that he takes on guys he knows he will handle.
***sarcasm detected***
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Franchize
post Dec 31 2012, 09:06 AM
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QUOTE (checkleft @ Dec 31 2012, 02:31 AM) *
+1

Anybody who cites smith or skip.... Matter of fact anybody from ESPN with the exception of atlas needs to educate themselves more on the sweet science. As roger would say, "they don't know shit about boxing".


+2 I'll take it a step further. I knew once I saw "Manny offered Floyd..." he didn't know WTF he was talkign about lol Manny can't offer anything. He doesn't even own his own balls.
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KOpower
post Dec 31 2012, 09:26 AM
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QUOTE (Dolimite @ Dec 29 2012, 05:09 PM) *
What does Manny have that would make Floyd afraid of him? Cotto poised a great risk to May than Manny would. If you say speed and footwork would scare Manny, just look what a 40 year old SLOW Marquez did with that foot speed and hand speed, he neutralized it with intelligence and counter punching. Like Roger Mayweather said "speed don't mean shit if you don't know how to use it." So what does Manny have that has Floyd scared? I am just curious. Remember Roy Jones even stated that May hits harder than Manny, but he doesn't know shit about boxing either according to some.


If I had to guess I would say that it is Manny's unique combination of speed and power. Cotto didn't pose a greater threat. Cotto is a traditional, orthodox fighter. Manny has really fast hands and he throws punches from all sorts of unique angles. Cotto...not so much. I think Floyd believes that Manny, more than anyone else out there, has the ability to get to that chin of his. I think that scares the sh*t out of Floyd. We saw Zab Judah drop Floyd and Judah is a poor man's Pacquaio. We have seen Mayweather get ROCKED by Chop-Chop. We saw him get rocked by Mosley. None of those guys have the hand-speed that Manny does. I think Floyd's chin is really suspect. I think if Manny finds it, he can do real damage. THAT would be the biggest question to me.


Look, if the 2 guys box then Mayweahter whips him. Period. Everyone knows that. The only question is whether Manny can get to Floyd early and hurt him. If that happens, then Manny either becomes the Antonio Tarver to Floyd's Roy Jones (KO) or he stuns Mayweather to the point where he gets even more defensive allowing Manny to rack up points and rounds in the process.


Manny STILL provides the best challenge to Floyd by a country mile. I hope it happens. I want to see Floyd in there with a fighter that can get to that chin of his. I still think Floyd wins...don't get me wrong...but Manny is really the only challenge that is out there for Floyd. Robert Guerrero has no chance and neither does Andre Berto. A rematch with Cotto gives us more of the same. Canelo is mildly interesting but I see that fight going the same way as the Cotto one. The only other fighter I really want to see Floyd in with is Broner.


But like I said, I truly feel that Floyd is worried that Manny would beat him. We will see over the next 18 months. I have seen enough from Manny to believe that he truly wants the fight. What more would Mayweather fans want? He has said he would give him a larger share of the money. He has said he would agree to ALL the tests. He went on national TV and essentially called Floyd out. Floyd remained quiet.


I am not a Manny fan. I am not a Mayweather fan. I am a guy that wanted Mayweather to fight Manny early so I could bet HEAVILY on Mayweather. I was planning on betting (and then winning) $5k on Mayweather and then letting that $5k pay for my trip to vegas/ticket for the fight. That was back when Pac was an absurd favorite. Since then I have been convinced that Mayweather is the one that stands in the way of the fight being made, NOT Manny.
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