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> stop with the talk of nonito donaire being P4P, until he proves he's the best in his division
Cshel86
post Oct 16 2012, 10:55 PM
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I may be in the minority here, but here it goes. I got to the Thomas & Mack Center during the final round of Rigondeaux/Marroquin, and I JUST got around to watching it in it's entirety.

I must say that Rigondeaux will have a hard time with Donaire, that's if he doesn't get stopped. Marroquin (who I will be watching more of), was able to catch Rigo with right hands, and rocked him in the 2nd and 9th round with a left hook, which really hurt Rigo.

With that in mind, Rigo needs to be fighting more than 3 times a year. I know that sounds weird, but he does need to build up his resume a bit. While he's doing that, Donaire needs to get off his high horse. Though he's had more fights, there are only a couple of them, that are actually noteworthy.
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mgrover
post Oct 17 2012, 05:23 AM
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QUOTE (BoxingEinstein @ Oct 17 2012, 12:30 AM) *
That last statement maybe the truest thing you said but it doesn't knock off the fact that he beat a top guy in his class, a guy who hasn't lost in 8 years. Donaire is the man at the weight, like it or not. Rigo is just a guy with good skills and a deep amateur experience who happens to start late in his career. In the end of the day we will see who is the guy at 122 and like I been said it's always been Donaire.


mehhh i dont think he'd lose to rigo, i just think he needs to take tougher fights, its as simple as that, i mean he fought a guy that was clearly afraid of his power from start to finish, there was only one way that fight was going to end. maybe after he beats the people at the top he can have mayweather status so to speak and fight whoever he fancies whether there of his caliber or not since realistically there's no one left.
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Franchize
post Oct 17 2012, 09:51 AM
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As soon as I saw this topic, I knew Cshel was ready it like the dog in the old cartoons "Let me at em, let me at em." lmao I used to think Shel was a lil too hard on Donaire. I dont know if it's an elephant in the room but there's definitely a sizeable four legged animal in there. As soon as I heard Roy Jones Jr, who's opinion I respect highly, going out on a limb for this guy, I had to re-evaluate my opinion about this guy. I have to give Cshel all the credit in the world for opening my eyes to this guy's legacy because really... I like Donaire. I think he's talented and I think he has a shot at making Manny Pacquiao the OTHER Filipino fighter. That being said, his last few performances have been technically subpar and sloppy. I think a lot of that has to do with Robert Garcia but still. Tighten up your craft and your resume'. You can't use that excuse of there not being any opponents anymore. Guys are out there now.

This post has been edited by Franchize: Oct 17 2012, 09:56 AM
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Cshel86
post Oct 17 2012, 10:51 AM
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QUOTE (Franchize @ Oct 17 2012, 10:51 AM) *
As soon as I saw this topic, I knew Cshel was ready it like the dog in the old cartoons "Let me at em, let me at em." lmao I used to think Shel was a lil too hard on Donaire. I dont know if it's an elephant in the room but there's definitely a sizeable four legged animal in there. As soon as I heard Roy Jones Jr, who's opinion I respect highly, going out on a limb for this guy, I had to re-evaluate my opinion about this guy. I have to give Cshel all the credit in the world for opening my eyes to this guy's legacy because really... I like Donaire. I think he's talented and I think he has a shot at making Manny Pacquiao the OTHER Filipino fighter. That being said, his last few performances have been technically subpar and sloppy. I think a lot of that has to do with Robert Garcia but still. Tighten up your craft and your resume'. You can't use that excuse of there not being any opponents anymore. Guys are out there now.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Thanks. I think Im hard on Donaire because of the Donaire fans, his sense of entitlement (at times), his shitty contract, and of course HBO, who nearly worships him. As much star power potential as Donaire has, Arum could've done a better job with his image, by keeping him close to Pacquiao on bug cards...like make his fight to co-main event or something.

Instead, Bob took a chance on keeping Nonito on doubleheaders, just to nuthugged by commentators as being the next Filipino star, and sticking him in there with guys that he's supposed to look good against. That's the formula, but Donaire happened to be TOO athletic for these guys, which made them reluctant to put up a fight, and they actually made him look bad in the process.

He may have good moments against these guys, or even finished them, but one thing wont leave the mind of fans because it keeps happening...that wack Navarez (sp) that put fans to sleep, the Nishioka fight where the guy didn't really want to throw, and the Vasquez fight where Nonito was getting popped with jabs and basic shit.

He was supposed to look good in these fights, instead, he left more questions to be answered. It's been a constant reminder how Shane exposed Manny. Though Manny dropped him and embarrassed him in that moment, the results of the fight from an impartial Pacquiao fan (if they exist), showed that Manny can't put the ring off to save his life. It got worse in the JMM fight months later, where he was doing that in-and-out jumping around nonsense.

The same has happened to Donaire over the past year or so, if he can't get in there and knock you out with ease (like he's spoiled himself with doing), then he'll look bad doing it 'til the final bell, or 'til he actually stops you. Other than that, he's just able to look super-athletic, which keeps fan awake. No need to be super-athletic, if you cant create properly create openings and make your opponent look like an ass...something RJJ was great at, regardless of his questionable competition.

NOW, I had to swallow my pride after watching Rigondeaux/Marroquin, and actually admit that I see Donaire beating him, most likely by stoppage. Rigo has a nice shell that he uses to slip/avoid punches, but I guess his problems kick in when he's backing away or in the middle of his punches. Marroquin caught him with two good left hooks that rocked him in the 2nd and the 9th. Donaire has a damn near superior left hook.

Rigo doesn't waste punches, but one thing's for sure, he WILL punch your ass. Lol. That may play into Donaire's type of fight. Either that, or Rigo can make Donaire get careless by forcing him to throw, and catching him in the process. Rigo looks the more vulnerable of the two, especially against a young Marroquin who took his chances, regardless of the possible return fire. He may have taken his chances too late in that fight, but he took them. That fight is all about who catches who first.

With this in mind, I'll give Donaire the victory, if a Rigo fight is signed, but as MG mentioned, Donaire just needs tougher fights. I wont crown him the top of anything, or the undisputed ( (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) ) of anything, until then. I dont see how folks can crown him P4P of anything, when he cant stay in any division for more than 9-12 months. He cant blame it on lack of competition or guys not wanting to fight him...his promoter is the blame for that. Dude wants to control everything, which ultimately makes his fighters suffer.

If anything, I was put on game, to some of Donaire's lack of P4P qualities, which has more to do with his resume, and less to do with his skill. You can have all the skill in the world, but if you cant open your opponent up to your fight, or effectively bring it to them, then you're in question. You opened my eyes to hometown trainers though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
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daprofessor
post Oct 17 2012, 12:24 PM
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QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Oct 16 2012, 10:55 PM) *
I may be in the minority here, but here it goes. I got to the Thomas & Mack Center during the final round of Rigondeaux/Marroquin, and I JUST got around to watching it in it's entirety.

I must say that Rigondeaux will have a hard time with Donaire, that's if he doesn't get stopped. Marroquin (who I will be watching more of), was able to catch Rigo with right hands, and rocked him in the 2nd and 9th round with a left hook, which really hurt Rigo.

With that in mind, Rigo needs to be fighting more than 3 times a year. I know that sounds weird, but he does need to build up his resume a bit. While he's doing that, Donaire needs to get off his high horse. Though he's had more fights, there are only a couple of them, that are actually noteworthy.


i never got to see that fight. do u have a link?
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daprofessor
post Oct 17 2012, 12:25 PM
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QUOTE (mgrover @ Oct 17 2012, 05:23 AM) *
mehhh i dont think he'd lose to rigo, i just think he needs to take tougher fights, its as simple as that, i mean he fought a guy that was clearly afraid of his power from start to finish, there was only one way that fight was going to end. maybe after he beats the people at the top he can have mayweather status so to speak and fight whoever he fancies whether there of his caliber or not since realistically there's no one left.


that about sums it up.
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Cshel86
post Oct 17 2012, 12:33 PM
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QUOTE (daprofessor @ Oct 17 2012, 01:24 PM) *
i never got to see that fight. do u have a link?

This is all I could find, since it wasn't on youtube. It's actually pretty good.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xtmwht_20...marroquin_sport
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daprofessor
post Oct 17 2012, 12:52 PM
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to donaire's credit....i agree with max when he said that nonito set the bar high for himself when he ko'd darchinyan and montiel. those are two high caliber fighters that had never been ko'd previously. but after watching his fights with concepcion, vasquez and narvaez...he disappointed. the concepcion fight was a lot closer than the scores indicated and nonito just flat out ran most of the fight. like cshel said...he couldn't get out of the way of wv2's jabs...i forgot about mathebula who out landed him...and narvaez really did nothing...and neither did nonito. they crowned him too soon. we know he looks great against guys who come right at him...but with guys that can jab...put effective pressure....or have any parts of defense...he looks very normal.

with all that being said...i didn't see the maroquinn fight. i won't comment on it until i see it.
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leonthegee
post Oct 17 2012, 01:16 PM
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If Rigo is as good as everybody thinks he is than he can wait another year. Build up his fanbase. Fight a couple more national televised fights. Make it so Nonito cant duck him. Dont be a Margarito and call out somebody than get TKOd by Daniel Santos. It would be better for Rigo in the long run. Boxing is a business first and the only way both fighters can make the money they both want to make is if Rigo makes a name for himself first. It attracts more sponsers. HBO has invested a ton in Nonito and they dont want put him in harms way for just anybody.
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daprofessor
post Oct 17 2012, 02:01 PM
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QUOTE (leonthegee @ Oct 17 2012, 01:16 PM) *
If Rigo is as good as everybody thinks he is than he can wait another year. Build up his fanbase. Fight a couple more national televised fights. Make it so Nonito cant duck him. Dont be a Margarito and call out somebody than get TKOd by Daniel Santos. It would be better for Rigo in the long run. Boxing is a business first and the only way both fighters can make the money they both want to make is if Rigo makes a name for himself first. It attracts more sponsers. HBO has invested a ton in Nonito and they dont want put him in harms way for just anybody.


i partially agree with this.

i think this is the sort of fight that produces a star. the only way that fight gets huge is if there's some kind of tournament. or if they both fight on the same card once or twice...similar to what has been done in the past. sure, it'll raise awareness...but look what happened the last time arum tried to do that with gamboa and juanma. we had the same opportunity with khan/bradley...at least in that situation...i get why bradley balked at the khan fight. here we have an opportunity to clear any doubt. donaire has 2 titles....rigondeaux has 1, mares has the other. who was the last fighter to hold all 4 titles at once? these guys have an opportunity at greatness here. the paydays are inevitable. sitting around waiting for a super fight to grow...it'll never happen. they need to make it happen. i know mares wants it. he's fighting moreno next and has expressed a huge interest in fighting donaire and rigondeaux. rigondeaux also wants it...he's the one who extended his contract with the devil to get the fight. the only one that doesn't want it is donaire.
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