[blackbelt2003]

Woah, I'm surprised (but then not really) at the blatant exclusion of pre-90's fighters on the ATG list. No wonder everyone thinks Mayweather is so great if their boxing knowledge only dates back to when Holyfield was heavyweight champion of the world.


Anyways:

ATG:

1/ Willie Pep, I think it's a given and should be consensus. The guy was incredible....he's on youtube for the younger kids.

2/ Ray Robinson @ welter. The footage is limited, but there is still a little on there. There's a fight vs Bobby Dykes and even his earlier middleweight days show off his defensive prowess. Sometimes he got involved in a fight and toughed it out, but when he wanted to be slick...MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN, he was slick.

3/ Nicolino Locche. Thank you Beardo. Bringing up his name has restored my faith in BT!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) An absolute defensive genius, would without a doubt be Argentina's best overall fighter if not for Monzon.

4/ Wilfredo Benitez. For him to have hung with what may have been the toughest competition of any era (from Kid Pambele to Leonard to Hearns to Duran...wow!) he had to have superlative defence...and he did. Check him out in his jr welter days against Cervantes. Incredible.

5/ Roy Jones Jr. I ummed and ahh'ed about whether to put in RJ or May, as I genuinely think both men had absolutely incredible defence. In the end, though, I plumped for Roy as he had a more consistent career than Floyd who has jumped up and down weights, 'retired' and gone inactive during his prime, whilst Roy was taking on all comers right up to his sudden downfall in his mid-30's. It's close, though.


Also considered: Arnold Cream (anyone tell me who he was without googling it...clue: he was heavyweight champion of the world), Joe Brown, Ali (obviously), Miguel Canto,



CURRENT:

1/ FLoyd. Undoubtedly.
2/ Hopkins
3/ Donaire
4/ John
5/ Wladimir




Black

[riddick]

I'm not sure that Donaire belongs in the current top 5 list.

Smarty, i'm not sure that Judah deserves (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) especially after 23 july fight, in many fights he takes much shots, Cotto beat him very hard and landed many punches.

[blackbelt2003]

Another solid ATG list.

I'm not sure that Donaire belongs in the current top 5 list.

He hardly ever gets caught though, at least in the footage I've seen of him?




Black

[gravytrain]

good call on Robinson, Black. i think his defense is underrated since he got caught with some good shots in fights but when you throw that many punches round after round it'll happen eventually. in his old fights you can see him avoid a lot of shots and limit his opponent's offense just with footwork and the jab. i think he'd a really smooth defense too, it's just hard to notice it with some of the footage available. there's footage of him that goes back further than Dykes but it isn't that good of quality. in one fight he didn't even have his guard up but took away his opponents offense with footwork and head movement.

[and the NEW]

I'm still not sold on Robinson as one of the best defensive fighters ever.

No doubt he had terrific footwork, a rangy jab (though sloppy a lot of the times) and good head movement. But he liked to really drive up through his legs and hence planted his feet a lot infront of his opponents, which allowed him time to be hit.

I think Charley Burley was a better defensive fighter than Ray.

Don't get me wrong, Ray had the best offense the world has probably ever seen, but I couldn't call him one of the best defensive fighters I have seen.