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> WHY DOESN'T AMERICA CELEBRATE HOPKINS?, Before the doping Armstrong was heraleded!!
sduck
post Mar 11 2013, 08:31 PM
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QUOTE (Dolimite @ Mar 11 2013, 05:48 PM) *
They like loud ignorant black athletes! See Charles Barkley and Steven A Smith. They hated Tyson while he was boxing and hated Ali while he was boxing. On recently have they changed their tune. Many people felt Mike Tyson should had been committed and they wanted to kill Ali. It wasn't until Mike calm down and stared in the Hangover before the world showed him love and society finally saw how amazing a person Ali was way after his career was over.

This makes no kind of sense...

QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Mar 11 2013, 06:56 PM) *
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Rocky Marciano

So when was he ever bigger than your top black fighters?

QUOTE (mrchitown @ Mar 11 2013, 07:32 PM) *
I guess I didn't get the memo that Ali and Tyson were loved when they were fighting. Them 2 were ridiculed, belittled and everything in between when they were fighting. They came out and championed Tyson, then when he seemed indestructible they turned on him and called him an animal. he's just now getting the love from "America" that he should've been getting all along

If Ali was so loved then why did the mainstream applaud and cheer against him when he fought and lost to Frazier in their 1st fight. Ali is another fighter who wasn't loved til years later

Joe Louis? Look what they did to him, remember they told him in order for him to get a shot he had to not do what Jack Johnson did and he was to act and be a certain way in the public. If that's love then I don't want it. How the f*ck you figure they loved Joe Louis when the papers always referred to him with those racist nicknames? They put him together and they busted him out. Look how he died, dude didn't have nothing. F*ck that, you got a funny definition of love.

lol, of course they get criticized, they do it to themselves. Thuggish behavior is not acceptable in the professional world no matter how you look at it, its not just in the white man's world, its in anyone's. All these fighters were still acknowledged and at the top of the game in popularity. Race is not an excuse for Hopkins not being known.

This post has been edited by sduck: Mar 11 2013, 08:32 PM
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Dolimite
post Mar 11 2013, 08:51 PM
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QUOTE (sduck @ Mar 11 2013, 06:31 PM) *
This makes no kind of sense...


So when was he ever bigger than your top black fighters?


lol, of course they get criticized, they do it to themselves. Thuggish behavior is not acceptable in the professional world no matter how you look at it, its not just in the white man's world, its in anyone's. All these fighters were still acknowledged and at the top of the game in popularity. Race is not an excuse for Hopkins not being known.

Explain to me why this doesn't make sense?

They love: Charles Barkley, Michael Jordan (he didn't stand for shit), RGIII (because he doesn't think race is a problem and he is happy on the plantation), Shane Mosley ( He is the good negro), Tiger Woods (he is canibi some bullshit, has no identity to black culture so they love that).

They hate the Williams sister because they do not apologize for who they are or where they come from. They hate and do mean hate Floyd because he is a Loud mouth can back up his skills and when he speaks about race problems he is dead on. I do not agree with everything Floyd says but I can tell you has spoken the truth. I do not know your nationality but you can not tell a black person what is racist and what is not. I lived this life for two decades and a half and I can tell you the shit is real. By the way, they hated LeBrone because he did not fall into their trap. When he left Cleveland you thought he escaped from the plantation (which he did) and they will never forgive him for that, now they have no choice but to respect him because he is backing up his skills.
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daprofessor
post Mar 11 2013, 09:04 PM
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i think more than anything....bhop is not someone the main stream will NOT touch because he went against the grain throughout his career. he did not allow himself to be exploited by the big name promoters. he always did things on his own terms and he's successful despite all that. add to that....yes, he is an ex con....yes, he calls himself the executioner....but probably the biggest reason he doesn't get the support or acclaim he deserves is because the masses....including the powers that be....DON'T KNOW SHIT ABOUT BOXING!!!!

it's that simple.

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mrchitown
post Mar 11 2013, 09:53 PM
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QUOTE (sduck @ Mar 11 2013, 07:31 PM) *
This makes no kind of sense...


So when was he ever bigger than your top black fighters?


lol, of course they get criticized, they do it to themselves. Thuggish behavior is not acceptable in the professional world no matter how you look at it, its not just in the white man's world, its in anyone's. All these fighters were still acknowledged and at the top of the game in popularity. Race is not an excuse for Hopkins not being known.


I agree, it's too many of those and it's unfortunate that some are in sports

And true it's not an excuse for him not being known but I do believe it's one of the reasons
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mrchitown
post Mar 11 2013, 10:15 PM
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QUOTE (bnoles4life @ Mar 11 2013, 06:40 PM) *
To be fair, America turned on Mike when it was revealed that he allegedly committed two taboos: Domestic violence w/ Robin Givens and rape w/ Desiree Washington. No matter how we feel about the accusations, can't really use Mike as an example when he has those two on his docket.


When he caught the rape charge is when sh*t hit the fan, wen he did that mess to Givens I don't recall too many up in arms about it. After all, look how she embarrassed him on national television....And you can't exclude him for that. If that's the case then many black athletes should be excluded. He was a part of the same things many of these athletes were in regards to the way he was perceived and the way he was eventually treated

Part of the reason he got the backlash from those 2 situations is that he kept winning. It's funny how the people build you up but over time they want to see you fail.....and then they'll shower you with endless affection. Tyson is a perfect example of this. So is Vick. These idiots care more about dogs then getting guns off the streets and implementing programs for the community.
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sduck
post Mar 11 2013, 10:34 PM
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QUOTE (Dolimite @ Mar 11 2013, 08:51 PM) *
Explain to me why this doesn't make sense?

They love: Charles Barkley, Michael Jordan (he didn't stand for shit), RGIII (because he doesn't think race is a problem and he is happy on the plantation), Shane Mosley ( He is the good negro), Tiger Woods (he is canibi some bullshit, has no identity to black culture so they love that).

They hate the Williams sister because they do not apologize for who they are or where they come from. They hate and do mean hate Floyd because he is a Loud mouth can back up his skills and when he speaks about race problems he is dead on. I do not agree with everything Floyd says but I can tell you has spoken the truth. I do not know your nationality but you can not tell a black person what is racist and what is not. I lived this life for two decades and a half and I can tell you the shit is real. By the way, they hated LeBrone because he did not fall into their trap. When he left Cleveland you thought he escaped from the plantation (which he did) and they will never forgive him for that, now they have no choice but to respect him because he is backing up his skills.

Because you said, "They like loud ignorant black athletes!" and then continued... but I see what you're saying now... I'm a black man, and believe me I know racism is very real and still very alive today. I just don't agree with race being such an issue for Hopkins, at least it not being a big issue. There's not enough evidence to suggest it is, and it's evident that it isn't, based off the success of many other black fighters and the non-success of white, hispanic, and the like, of fighters.

QUOTE (daprofessor @ Mar 11 2013, 09:04 PM) *
i think more than anything....bhop is not someone the main stream will NOT touch because he went against the grain throughout his career. he did not allow himself to be exploited by the big name promoters. he always did things on his own terms and he's successful despite all that. add to that....yes, he is an ex con....yes, he calls himself the executioner....but probably the biggest reason he doesn't get the support or acclaim he deserves is because the masses....including the powers that be....DON'T KNOW SHIT ABOUT BOXING!!!!

it's that simple.

lol I guess thats a way of putting it, but he for some reason is just not appealing to the masses. He's had plenty of opportunity to be popular in and outside of the sport, but was overshadowed by people like Roy Jones in their prime, fought in an unpopular weight division, and is proven to just not be oh-so appealing, even after defeating De La Hoya, and ending De La Hoya's reign in the spotlight, Hopkins recognition was still somewhat mute.
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The Original MrF...
post Mar 12 2013, 03:08 AM
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I sat and thought about this one for a few days. I think someone nailed it above. After reading everyones responses. I think its that Bernard isnt appealing to women. To his peeps, he's a handsome guy and kind and generous. To the rest of the world, who would is easier on the eyes?? DLH or Hopkins? Ali or Hopkins?

I think we are rapped up in a phyical world where people are defined by their looks. If Hopkins looked like Donny LaLonde, he'd be a matinee superstar. he'd be the David Cassidy of boxing. If Donny LaLonde had beaten Ray Leonard, we'd still be talking about that legend to this day. It aint that way though. Hops got strikes against him. He's black, he's not gonna bring soccor moms to the sport and he doesnt articulate well at times. Think of all those things in terms of DLH. He white(I know of Mexican decent), he's every soccor mom's ideal prom date, he's articulate. Those things have meaning when trying to bring someone to a mainstream audience. Who will resonate with mainstream America, Justin Timberlake or DMX? Who would Sarah Palin pick??
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Cshel86
post Mar 12 2013, 08:25 AM
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QUOTE (sduck @ Mar 11 2013, 06:39 PM) *
What in the world, how dare people here cry racism when America loved loud, outspoken, foul-mouthed black fighters like Ali and Tyson, even till this day.

People loved them AFTER they hit rock bottom, and more than likely, that "love" that they show them, is from pure guilt for all of the nasty shit that they said about them while they were on top of their game.

Ali is damn near the poster child for Parkinson's disease, and why isn't Michael J. Fox the poster child? It's a weird way of looking at it, but I believe people "uplift" Ali and condition, because he's still suffering. Michael J. Fox doesn't seem to be doing all that bad nowadays, but Ali on the other hand...

No matter how much shit Tyson did back in the day, I believe most can stand up and say that Mike is a real dude. The stuff that he expresses nowadays, most men wouldn't even admit. When he seemed dangerous and mentally unstable, they had everything in the world to say about him, but now that he has this pleasant demeanor, people are clamoring over his presence and so on.

QUOTE (mrchitown @ Mar 11 2013, 08:25 PM) *
He's a talented black man that isn't a slave to the system and says and does what he wants. Of course America doesn't campaign for him, but he always gets the last laugh

I believe that anybody that refuses to fall in line, and decides to do things their way, usually catches hell. Stuff like that takes courage, along with knowing that you'll receive some backlash and probably wont get paid for a while.

QUOTE (mrchitown @ Mar 11 2013, 11:15 PM) *
These idiots care more about dogs then getting guns off the streets and implementing programs for the community.

Now if we want to talk about something, THAT'S what needs to be discussed. It takes an incident like Sandy Hook Elementary or Columbine High School, to make people spew out some fear-driven mumbo jumbo about gun control. Funny thing is, nobody is saying shit about these daily death deaths in Chicago and so on.
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BrutUalBK
post Mar 12 2013, 09:24 AM
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QUOTE
So when was he ever bigger than your top black fighters?


First of all, they are not MY top black fighters. Second, Marciano is still bigger than all of them. Let me explain; you are confusing popularity with boxing. In terms of boxing none of them have did what RM has done and therefore there are none who have surpassed him, examine what happened with Babe Ruth and then compare it to when Bonds outsted his record.

Sure Ali and Tyson were more well-known especially in recent times and that is due to the modern day we live in and how the media is broadcasted around the world and that makes them more popular but in terms of the sport of boxing they still did not superseed RM/his PERFECT record of 50-0 and until anyone does then he is touted as the absolute best in this sport.

Now you may not believe it but that argument happens in the USA a lot more than you think especially if you debate with someone who can still remember him (RM) from his days of perfection in this sport. Ali wasn't big so much so for what he did in the ring, it was his political stance/statements against the Vietnam War that gained him his worldwide fame/popularity, Tyson was popular initially because he KO'd many of his opponents in devastating fashion but as his competition got better he gained fame from his antics outside of the ring and as well as the earbiting incident and not because of what he did in the sport.

All we need to do here is to stop looking at the man and look at the achievement, being the oldest man to capture a Championship should be the focus and no matter who did that it in itself should make them an instant celebrity regardless if you liked their boxing style or not. Sure Hopkins isn't pretty, sure he has a big mouth, sure some of his fights may be dull but at the end of the day he has done what no other has done in this sport and that alone should give him the fanfare he deserves whether you love him or hate him.

This post has been edited by BrutUalBK: Mar 12 2013, 09:24 AM
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pacco_diablo
post Mar 12 2013, 11:00 AM
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IMO, race does play a small part in it. Mostly from the perspective (here in America) that because he's a black athlete he's almost expected to be a better athlete. White American boxers are considered inferior and the track record and history of the sport show why, especially within boxing today. It's like when Jason Sehorn started to become a big name for the New York Giants. He was considered an anomaly because he was a fast white corner back, a positioned dominated by black athletes, but then he got hurt and fell off the face of the planet. So race does play a part in the sense that people are usually ok with rooting for underdogs, aka white american boxers.

However...

Here are other reasons why Hopkins isnt celebrated the way he should be.

1 - He has losses. If he was undefeated or only had 1 -2 losses then he would be celebrated. Regardless if he has never been knocked out or not. In the end a loss is a loss. This is what dropped the great Roy Jones from the top of the boxing world. This is also what is keeping Mayweather at the top.

2 - personality. He's not as likable as George Foreman. He's not as cocky as Ali, Tyson or RJJ and Americans love an over confident/controversial figure.

3 - fighting style. So many of his big fights have been too strategic for the casual fan to find exciting. It's usually when the public eye has left him that he breaks out of his usual style and fights the way that 'fans' like to watch.
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