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> DELAHOYA SAYS MAYWEATHER AFRAID OF ALVAREZ, afraid to fight him???
leonthegee
post Apr 8 2013, 09:23 PM
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QUOTE (KOpower @ Apr 8 2013, 04:49 PM) *
There is a 0% chance that the number is 1.5 million if Canelo-Mosley isn't on the undercard. It is IMPOSSIBLE to predict how many numbers were added due to the Canelo fight. Canelo obviously has his fans that will pay. He also provides a good name to push that skeptical fan over the edge to buy the fight. Cotto-Mayweather did well b/c of the following that both fighters have. They do well over 1 million buys without Canelo...Canelo just added to that.

Mayweather will do big numbers without him, but let's see if they trump the Ortiz fight. Let's see if they trump the Cotto fight. Canelo really had no other option. I mean what is he going to do...become Floyd's b*tch and continue to fight next 3 or 4 big fights on Floyd's undercard just to appease him? Canelo did it for the last 2 Mayweather events and he was willing to give Floyd a huge fight for the 3rd one. It was put up or shut up and CLEARLY Mayweather wasn't interested in fighting him next.

Now we will be stuck with who...Floyd vs Danny Garcia? Floyd vs Devon Alexander? Oh wait...I got it...an Andre Berto win in July sets up a Money vs Berto fight in the winter. I can't wait..


Sure people shed out 70 bones to see Canelo vs a shot Mosley. Please not even you would do that. Botton line is GBP isnt ready for Canelo to fight Floyd otherwise that fight would be happening now. Canelo picked Trout because they believe hes easier. Shafer said it at the Cotto Mayweather fight. He said it a weak later on the Jim Lampley Show. Whats happen since then? Canelo beating up Josesito Lopez moving up 2 divisions. Thats a joke and you know it. Mayweathers right in saying who is Canelo to try and give him an ultimatum. If Canelo beats Trout, which I believe he will, that will put him to the top of the Mayweather list.

But at the same time I can see Floyd toying with Canelo since he knows he wants to fight on Mexican Indepence Day. Canelos already fucked on Cinco de Mayo weekend. The only way Canelo can have that date is if he fights Floyd or Floyd gives up that date. Or he can loose face and fight on Floyds undercard. Floyd has Canelos balls in a vice grip only he doesnt know it yet.
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Cshel86
post Apr 9 2013, 09:59 AM
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QUOTE (KOpower @ Apr 8 2013, 08:31 PM) *
You are just flat out wrong. If you think that Canelo didn't help Floyd's PPV numbers, you are out of your mind. Did Canelo MAKE Floyd's event? Hell no, but Canelo absolutely made it a bigger event and he absolutely brought PPV dollars to the table.

That isn't even the point. The fact is that Canelo is easily Floyd's biggest fight out there (Manny fight isn't possible anymore) and Canelo was willing to give Floyd the Trout fight on his undercard. That is a huge fight, but Floyd declined. Why? I can't think of a real good reason for him to decline that fight.

Stop it with the numbers stuff. If anything, we can say that more people bout the card because his opponent, and not this "fluctuated" star power of his. Answer this, before ordering this card, how many people knew Shane compared to Canelo? There's your answer.

Again, I'll compare Canelo and Julio's HBO views from 2011 and 2012...views don't equate to buys, sorry. I'd watch Golovkin fight any day of the week, but I sure as hell didn't buy his recent low-budget PPV against Ishida, regardless of the fact that it was nowhere near $45-$70.

So...Julio's miiiiilions of viewers equated to how many PPV buys in the biggest fight of his life?! Around 400K?! Stop it man. If Floyd fought on Showtime Championship next weekend for FREE, then Im sure their view rate for that night would be more than his recent 1.5M BUYS. Right? I'm sure people would loooove to see Floyd (to win or lose) for free, but not many are willing to cough up $70.

Answer this, how many people do you think would be willing to PAY anywhere from $45-$70 to see Canelo fight Shane Mosley? I'll wait. They were PUSHING Canelo's fight, hell, you see that they aired it a week later on HBO when they replayed Mayweather/Cotto. That fight wasn't that big to drive up sales bro, sorry.

Let's be real here, Canelo can't GIVE anybody AYTHING, so for you to say that Canelo was willing to GIVE Floyd the Trout fight on his undercard, is laughable. De La Homo's hand (and probably something else) is up Canelo's ass and telling him what to do and say, he is under contract, or am I missing something?

You're probably one of those retards that thinks Manny can make his own decisions and offer fighters certain amounts of money...or "take the smaller split". Hell, that retard can't even incriminate himself and offer to take the smaller split of a purse. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Just stop failing man...
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Cshel86
post Apr 9 2013, 10:21 AM
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QUOTE (KOpower @ Apr 8 2013, 09:57 PM) *
The deal was supposed to be if Canelo and Floyd both win, they fight in September. That was what everyone has reported. If that is NOT accurate, please provide a link to a reasonable source and I will try to do more research on the matter myself. That was what I read on various boxing websites and the GP promoter himself. If Canelo loses, he does not deserve a shot at Mayweather.

Allow me to explain the two bold points...

That was floating around, but I don't remember Floyd mentioning it, but I could be wrong. I remember him saying that he will fight in May and September, but I guess Oscar got the happy pants and inserted Canelo's name into that September slot.

Now, the second point is what ruined this whole "deal" a few weeks ago. How does this sound?...Canelo tries to "offer" Floyd an undercard fight, an "explosive" undercard fight, by taking on Trout for May 4th. NOW, why would Canelo go off and give Floyd an ultimatum, when this whole "both winners fight each other in September" deal was already verbally agreed upon?

Maybe it's because he knew that he would get his ass kicked by Trout on May 4th. Think about it, would a Trout ass-whoopin' be as bad, when you already have a lofty payday set up with Floyd 4 months later? What sense does that make? So you're telling me that Canelo wasn't going to fight ANYBODY on May 4th or April 20th, until a fight with floyd was signed?

I mean this dude (Canelo) DOES have a careerto follow through with, so why is Floyd's decision of him fighting Trout, holding him up? What if Canelo was fighting Angulo on May 4th, would he be begging for a signed agreement to fight in September...or is the thought of losing to Trout, that makes him want that guarantee?

What if Canelo/Trout fought on May 4th, Trout beat him, but the September contract was already signed? How would that look? The guy who Floyd was supposed to be fighting, got beat, but the winner didn't get his shot at Floyd? Sounds like some serious doubt was going on with Canelo's team.
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checkleft
post Apr 9 2013, 10:39 AM
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QUOTE (KOpower @ Apr 8 2013, 08:57 PM) *
I think it's a 50-50 fight. I would bet on Trout if I HAD to. That has nothing to do with what the original point was and that's why I didn't mention the fight itself.

The deal was supposed to be if Canelo and Floyd both win, they fight in September. That was what everyone has reported. If that is NOT accurate, please provide a link to a reasonable source and I will try to do more research on the matter myself. That was what I read on various boxing websites and the GP promoter himself. If Canelo loses, he does not deserve a shot at Mayweather.

"Red" isn't trying to play anyone. Again...it was a very reasonable request. What is the alternative? Should Canelo just continue to fight on Floyd PPV undercards just to make the man happy? Please, Canelo decided that enough was enough and that's exactly what he should have done. Floyd declined. Why? The ONLY reason is because he has no intention of fighting Canelo at any point in the near future...whether he wins or loses.

Floyd wants to fight a few easy fights for LARGE dollars against guys like Alexander, Berto, Garcia, etc and THEN go for the Canelo fight.

What stiff competition has Canelo faced that makes you think Canelo is a harder fight then guys like Alexander Garcia berto ect.? The point is this dude wants the biggest available pay day in boxing for doing next to shit, and then he has the balls to set an ultimatum?
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mgrover
post Apr 9 2013, 11:20 AM
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ffs can Canelo hurry up and fight Trout so Trout can be robbed and my friend can fucking dance on my grave after I hand him the money. To make it worse he's an ignorant fuck so even if he watches Canelo lose yet get gifted he'll rub it in my nose.

Also Canelo is in no position to give anyone named Mayweather an ultimatum. He'll probably fight Cotto later this year if he's still around.
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Dolimite
post Apr 9 2013, 12:31 PM
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Mind you, this is Saul's FIRST time fighting a fighter in his weight class. He is 41-0 against who exactly? And he wants to makes demands with Floyd? Oscar was obviously on a coke high when he made this statement. He is acting like a jealous bitch and it makes him look gross.

Be a man Oscar and let it go, you lost move on. Saul is not your answer and after you are done robbing Trout of a victory everyone will see that all you had in Saul was the look of a fighter.
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VJones
post Apr 9 2013, 12:36 PM
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QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Apr 8 2013, 07:02 PM) *
This is true but he's also trying to promote the fight by stirring up controversy, DLH is not stupid---he knows that Floyd beats Canelo rather easily but as a Promoter it is his job to promote his fighters thus garnering the higher PPV numbers by fanning the flames of controversy to get the interest going.

It would be funny as crap if Canelo gets totally starched by Trout in light of this comment by DLH, how foolish would he look then??


Agreed. DLH is acting as promoter and invoking the "Floyd is scared" mantra, perfected by Arum to create a buzz for his fighter. But I'll add (as others have suggested) that there is certainly no love lost between DLH and FM. There is a very real jealousy and dislike for Mayweather on the part of Oscar that he finds difficult to hide at times. Oscar made a career as "the golden boy", carrying the burden of a 'perfect' persona -- a good and wholesome guy; while his real life vices and strong urges threatened to topple his kingdom. In essence, he couldn't do what he wanted to do. He felt shackled and stifled. And now, Mayweather has out earned and over-shadowed him, while more or less doing whatever he wants to. That rankles Oscar to no end.

On Floyd's part, his dislike of Oscar goes back to Top Rank, and the disparity of treatment by Arum of both men. Floyd has always disliked Oscar for being duplicitous. If you ask Floyd, he'll tell you Oscar is a fake. Because the truth is, nearly everyone in boxing knew what Oscar's life outside the ring was like. Frankly it resembled Floyd's, but with even more excess, plus drugs and drinking. Everyone knew. And everyone (Arum, HBO, Media) helped cover it up. And that rankled Floyd to no end.

QUOTE (KOpower @ Apr 8 2013, 07:31 PM) *
You are just flat out wrong. If you think that Canelo didn't help Floyd's PPV numbers, you are out of your mind. Did Canelo MAKE Floyd's event? Hell no, but Canelo absolutely made it a bigger event and he absolutely brought PPV dollars to the table.

That isn't even the point. The fact is that Canelo is easily Floyd's biggest fight out there (Manny fight isn't possible anymore) and Canelo was willing to give Floyd the Trout fight on his undercard. That is a huge fight, but Floyd declined. Why? I can't think of a real good reason for him to decline that fight.


You have a great misunderstanding of the how's, why's, and when's of PPV. But I think Cshel has done a great job in addressing some of it. I'll simply add that 1. Networks are big on statistics. They don't do things for kicks and giggles. 2. PPV is a money-making ordeal. It's not about exposure for a fighter. Its not about supposition. It's about proven numbers. 3. PPV requires millions in advertising, fees, etc., which the network is partly responsible for. 4. Networks are not in the business of losing money, so if it doesn't make dollars, then it doesn't make sense to do. This is why Canelo has yet to have a PPV of his own. He is not ready. He has yet to have a breakout performance when he had the stage and the casual fans on the undercard of FM's ticket. No one is clamoring to PAY to VIEW this kid. Not yet. The undercard of a PPV star is where you can make your mark towards becoming a star within your own right. That was his time to shine. And obviously, the statistics collected by the networks show that his star isn't bright enough to make him PPV worthy. Not yet.

I think it's reckless to hear someone suggest that an unproven and up and coming young star is somehow responsible for the PPV numbers of a proven, PPV record-holder. It's just madness. Stop listening to Dan Rafael. He's a shill and a hack and writes to his emotions.

Even a Miguel Cotto (and Shane Mosely) proven stars (significantly more popular with the casual, PPV buying fan) don't register much in terms of PPV numbers on a Mayeather card, much less Canelo Alvarez...? SMH

Networks are not emotional or subjective. It's business. Therefore it's all about the numbers. If Canelo Alvarez was capable of putting up (like Chavez Jr.) a few hundred-thousand buys on his own...he would have headlined his own PPV, two fights ago.
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VJones
post Apr 9 2013, 12:55 PM
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QUOTE (daprofessor @ Apr 8 2013, 07:34 PM) *
the canelo curse is real. ask ortiz and cotto. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)


Lol. Right!

But truly, it's an unwritten rule of sports and competition. You NEVER look past what's in front of you. Amir Khan comes to mind in his quest for FM. I think it's one of the most absurd requests ever!

Btw, I'm hearing that the push for Floyd is more than promotion. That Canelo is fastly outgrowing 154 and the concern is he won't be able to make the weight much longer, thus the rush to have Floyd commit. He wants the pay-day of course, but more importantly the significant bump in popularity gained by facing Floyd. They want the broader market. They're not concerned about him losing the fight because its not a bad fight to lose. And they believe 'Nelo won't be completely outclassed because of his size and Floyd's aging...

What say you, Prof?
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daprofessor
post Apr 9 2013, 06:20 PM
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QUOTE (VJones @ Apr 9 2013, 12:36 PM) *
Agreed. DLH is acting as promoter and invoking the "Floyd is scared" mantra, perfected by Arum to create a buzz for his fighter. But I'll add (as others have suggested) that there is certainly no love lost between DLH and FM. There is a very real jealousy and dislike for Mayweather on the part of Oscar that he finds difficult to hide at times. Oscar made a career as "the golden boy", carrying the burden of a 'perfect' persona -- a good and wholesome guy; while his real life vices and strong urges threatened to topple his kingdom. In essence, he couldn't do what he wanted to do. He felt shackled and stifled. And now, Mayweather has out earned and over-shadowed him, while more or less doing whatever he wants to. That rankles Oscar to no end.

On Floyd's part, his dislike of Oscar goes back to Top Rank, and the disparity of treatment by Arum of both men. Floyd has always disliked Oscar for being duplicitous. If you ask Floyd, he'll tell you Oscar is a fake. Because the truth is, nearly everyone in boxing knew what Oscar's life outside the ring was like. Frankly it resembled Floyd's, but with even more excess, plus drugs and drinking. Everyone knew. And everyone (Arum, HBO, Media) helped cover it up. And that rankled Floyd to no end.



You have a great misunderstanding of the how's, why's, and when's of PPV. But I think Cshel has done a great job in addressing some of it. I'll simply add that 1. Networks are big on statistics. They don't do things for kicks and giggles. 2. PPV is a money-making ordeal. It's not about exposure for a fighter. Its not about supposition. It's about proven numbers. 3. PPV requires millions in advertising, fees, etc., which the network is partly responsible for. 4. Networks are not in the business of losing money, so if it doesn't make dollars, then it doesn't make sense to do. This is why Canelo has yet to have a PPV of his own. He is not ready. He has yet to have a breakout performance when he had the stage and the casual fans on the undercard of FM's ticket. No one is clamoring to PAY to VIEW this kid. Not yet. The undercard of a PPV star is where you can make your mark towards becoming a star within your own right. That was his time to shine. And obviously, the statistics collected by the networks show that his star isn't bright enough to make him PPV worthy. Not yet.

I think it's reckless to hear someone suggest that an unproven and up and coming young star is somehow responsible for the PPV numbers of a proven, PPV record-holder. It's just madness. Stop listening to Dan Rafael. He's a shill and a hack and writes to his emotions.

Even a Miguel Cotto (and Shane Mosely) proven stars (significantly more popular with the casual, PPV buying fan) don't register much in terms of PPV numbers on a Mayeather card, much less Canelo Alvarez...? SMH

Networks are not emotional or subjective. It's business. Therefore it's all about the numbers. If Canelo Alvarez was capable of putting up (like Chavez Jr.) a few hundred-thousand buys on his own...he would have headlined his own PPV, two fights ago.


excellent post.

i think you all make valid points...but i agree that canelo is in no position to be making demands. floyd has been very good about selecting the right opposition and the promoters have been good about putting together solid undercards. this next ppv will be no different. i think floyd would have benefitted with canelo on the undercard moreso than mares. i'll agree that canelo is not ppv worthy...but if he should beat trout i think he is without doubt floyds biggest payday like KOpower has suggested.

This post has been edited by daprofessor: Apr 9 2013, 06:26 PM
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daprofessor
post Apr 9 2013, 06:31 PM
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QUOTE (VJones @ Apr 9 2013, 12:55 PM) *
Lol. Right!

But truly, it's an unwritten rule of sports and competition. You NEVER look past what's in front of you. Amir Khan comes to mind in his quest for FM. I think it's one of the most absurd requests ever!

Btw, I'm hearing that the push for Floyd is more than promotion. That Canelo is fastly outgrowing 154 and the concern is he won't be able to make the weight much longer, thus the rush to have Floyd commit. He wants the pay-day of course, but more importantly the significant bump in popularity gained by facing Floyd. They want the broader market. They're not concerned about him losing the fight because its not a bad fight to lose. And they believe 'Nelo won't be completely outclassed because of his size and Floyd's aging...

What say you, Prof?


amir khan did it to himself twice!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) first against peterson....then against garcia. you would think he would have learned his lesson. if i was part of his team i would have told him to stfu a looooong time ago.

i agree that canelo is outgrowing the division. evidence of that has been seen in his last few bouts where they show him jogging with rubber suits on trying to cut weight. the weight cutting costs him in the fight too! he always seems to only fight in spots and rarely pushes a pace. it's why i believe trout is going to beat him in their match. but again....if canelo proves me wrong and beats trout...he will, without a doubt, move into the number one slot to face floyd imo.

of course all of this will be moot if guerrero and trout are successful. it's possible. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
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