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> Rigondeau's skill and ring intelligence is on par with Mayweather's
daprofessor
post Apr 17 2013, 05:54 PM
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QUOTE (mrchitown @ Apr 17 2013, 04:30 PM) *
I think Zab was more skilled then Donaire back in his day, if he could've won at least 1 of the perceived "BIG" fights this wouldn't be a conversation. I see what you and dude are saying but Donaire is more highly regarded as you said then skilled to me, and that's saying alot because Donaire is a higlhly skilled figher hell I rate Shane above Donaire skill wise..part of the reason Donaire won fight of the year was because the media fell in love with his yr round drug testing....and I can;t agree with Rigo trumping either of the best W's for Ward or Mayweather..skill wise Dawson is a beast, he's just a mental midget.



i disagree. zab has never been on the level with donaire. he's had some great wins...but i think donaire has more skill and accomplishment.

shane...u could make the case at 135...he was unbeatable at the time. above 135...he was just a little above average.

the thing to consider here....nonito move up in weight and his best year came last year where he got the fighter of the year award for his 4 wins. i thought jmm should have been awarded fighter of the year...and u could have made a case for guerrero as well....but i think his four wins moreso than his testing won him that award.

like aware said...wards win over dawson is diminished by the weight drain.

floyds win over zab is diminished by the fact that he lost to baldomir right before he fought floyd. i think floyds best win was against corrales.

i think rigondeaux's win over donaire trumps all of those wins.
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mrchitown
post Apr 17 2013, 08:21 PM
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QUOTE (Aware @ Apr 17 2013, 03:54 PM) *
Dawson was obviously severely weight drained against Ward. No way Ward is able to TKO Dawson at his comfortable weight. I think it would have been an even fight at 175. Skillwise Judah is defintely better than Donaire, but Donaire is certainly the better fighter. Mosley is greater than Donaire so far, but Shane Mosley was past his prime when he fought Mayweather.


I agree with everything you said, but I think Ward might KO Dawson at light-heavy. Not because of the weight but because he's mentally fragile

at the bolded, you raise an interesting point. I was talking to people at my gym about when a fighter's prime is. And truthfully that's open to interpretation. Truthfully an athletes prime is seen by most as late 20 and ending sometime in their 30's. But that's not really true, some athletes don't hit their prime til later. A person's prime is not a collective issue but an individual but most fans of sports tend to lump them into the same category...now as far as Mosley, I think he started to slide after the Mayweather fight, this is the same guy who tore thru Margarito. What could have hurt Shane in that fight is the layoff. Remember he was supposed to fight Berto that year in January not Floyd in May. He hasn't looked sharp since the 2nd round of the Mayweather fight. Was he past his prime is open to one's interpretation but I don't see it as so
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mrchitown
post Apr 17 2013, 08:27 PM
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QUOTE (daprofessor @ Apr 17 2013, 05:54 PM) *
i disagree. zab has never been on the level with donaire. he's had some great wins...but i think donaire has more skill and accomplishment.

shane...u could make the case at 135...he was unbeatable at the time. above 135...he was just a little above average.

the thing to consider here....nonito move up in weight and his best year came last year where he got the fighter of the year award for his 4 wins. i thought jmm should have been awarded fighter of the year...and u could have made a case for guerrero as well....but i think his four wins moreso than his testing won him that award.

like aware said...wards win over dawson is diminished by the weight drain.

floyds win over zab is diminished by the fact that he lost to baldomir right before he fought floyd. i think floyds best win was against corrales.

i think rigondeaux's win over donaire trumps all of those wins.

Aint no way in hell you could make a case for Guerrero, WTF is going on lol....Aydin and Berto warrant that award lol. NO!!!

If we diminishing wins then you can do that with every fighter, Donaire was fighter of the year and he didn
t beat nobody on his way to that award that posed a serious threat to him...we can diminish Rigo's win over Donaire because he didn't have time to train with Garcia too right??? I mean if we gon go on this diminishing fest then let's keep it even.

If your going to diminish the wins you spoke of above then this one is no different. And IMO, if Zab and Donaire matched up at the same weight in the same era, Zab would get him. Donaire ever since he burst onto the scene with that spectacular KO, has been loading up his shots. Look how he fought this past Saturday, he always looks for the left hook. He's no hype job and he's skilled but this Donaire you speak of has been getting by on using one weapon lately. At least when Zab didn't rock the gold tooth he had a diverse aresnal
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daprofessor
post Apr 17 2013, 09:00 PM
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QUOTE (mrchitown @ Apr 17 2013, 09:27 PM) *
Aint no way in hell you could make a case for Guerrero, WTF is going on lol....Aydin and Berto warrant that award lol. NO!!!

If we diminishing wins then you can do that with every fighter, Donaire was fighter of the year and he didn
t beat nobody on his way to that award that posed a serious threat to him...we can diminish Rigo's win over Donaire because he didn't have time to train with Garcia too right??? I mean if we gon go on this diminishing fest then let's keep it even.

If your going to diminish the wins you spoke of above then this one is no different. And IMO, if Zab and Donaire matched up at the same weight in the same era, Zab would get him. Donaire ever since he burst onto the scene with that spectacular KO, has been loading up his shots. Look how he fought this past Saturday, he always looks for the left hook. He's no hype job and he's skilled but this Donaire you speak of has been getting by on using one weapon lately. At least when Zab didn't rock the gold tooth he had a diverse aresnal


not sure why guerrero is even being mentioned? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

i was saying floyds wins over zab and shane weren't as good as rigondeaux's win over donaire.

i think floyds best win was over corrales.(rip)

we can debate that if u'd like.
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mrchitown
post Apr 17 2013, 09:48 PM
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QUOTE (daprofessor @ Apr 17 2013, 09:00 PM) *
not sure why guerrero is even being mentioned? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

i was saying floyds wins over zab and shane weren't as good as rigondeaux's win over donaire.

i think floyds best win was over corrales.(rip)

we can debate that if u'd like.


You must be related to Guerrero lol...Cali got you backtracking just like Robert does lol. I started off with that because you said you could make a case that he was fighter of the yr and I say ducktales.. I personally think it should've been Marquez

I obviously don't agree with your assessment on Rigo having a better win then Floyd or Ward, truth be told I have to see how Donaire fares moving forward. I picked Rigo to win based on Donaire's limitations.

This post has been edited by mrchitown: Apr 17 2013, 09:48 PM
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daprofessor
post Apr 18 2013, 01:52 PM
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QUOTE (mrchitown @ Apr 17 2013, 10:48 PM) *
You must be related to Guerrero lol...Cali got you backtracking just like Robert does lol. I started off with that because you said you could make a case that he was fighter of the yr and I say ducktales.. I personally think it should've been Marquez

I obviously don't agree with your assessment on Rigo having a better win then Floyd or Ward, truth be told I have to see how Donaire fares moving forward. I picked Rigo to win based on Donaire's limitations.


oh. yeah...i said marquez should have got it and yes...i stand by my comment that guerrero was more deserving than donaire. when was the last time a guy jumped two weight classes and beat the number 1 ranked guy and a former champion? that was a huge statement when you consider the fact that guerrero was off a year due to injury. imo...marquez starching pac and guerrero jumping two weight classes both trump donaires mediocre 4 wins against guys most ppl never heard of. but that's just me. i'm not backtracking shit! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
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mrchitown
post Apr 18 2013, 02:05 PM
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QUOTE (daprofessor @ Apr 18 2013, 01:52 PM) *
oh. yeah...i said marquez should have got it and yes...i stand by my comment that guerrero was more deserving than donaire. when was the last time a guy jumped two weight classes and beat the number 1 ranked guy and a former champion? that was a huge statement when you consider the fact that guerrero was off a year due to injury. imo...marquez starching pac and guerrero jumping two weight classes both trump donaires mediocre 4 wins against guys most ppl never heard of. but that's just me. i'm not backtracking shit! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)


True Marquez should have got it and I agree that Guerrero was more deserving then Nonito, but Marquez should've took it home last year. The people who have votes, I'd like to know the reasoning behind Marquez not getting the award

I still want to see how Donaire fares moving forward in his career, if he gets back on track and displays the talent that we all know he has, that's going to make Rigo's win over him look all the more impressive. I hope they rematch some day, and if they do I think Rigo beats him again and in even better fashion the next time
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checkleft
post Apr 18 2013, 02:06 PM
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QUOTE (daprofessor @ Apr 17 2013, 06:54 PM) *
i disagree. zab has never been on the level with donaire. he's had some great wins...but i think donaire has more skill and accomplishment.

shane...u could make the case at 135...he was unbeatable at the time. above 135...he was just a little above average.

the thing to consider here....nonito move up in weight and his best year came last year where he got the fighter of the year award for his 4 wins. i thought jmm should have been awarded fighter of the year...and u could have made a case for guerrero as well....but i think his four wins moreso than his testing won him that award.

like aware said...wards win over dawson is diminished by the weight drain.

floyds win over zab is diminished by the fact that he lost to baldomir right before he fought floyd. i think floyds best win was against corrales.

i think rigondeaux's win over donaire trumps all of those wins.

Mosley was an absolute manimal at 135.

But I dont get how you can say wards win was diminished by weight (which I agree with) and fail to mention donaire fought very small guys, unknowns, and guys looking to cash out the four fights he got his foy award with.

But rigos win is definitely more impressive than a lot of mayweather wins. The fight actually reminded me a lot of the corrales fight, funny that you mentioned it.

QUOTE (mrchitown @ Apr 17 2013, 09:21 PM) *
I agree with everything you said, but I think Ward might KO Dawson at light-heavy. Not because of the weight but because he's mentally fragile

at the bolded, you raise an interesting point. I was talking to people at my gym about when a fighter's prime is. And truthfully that's open to interpretation. Truthfully an athletes prime is seen by most as late 20 and ending sometime in their 30's. But that's not really true, some athletes don't hit their prime til later. A person's prime is not a collective issue but an individual but most fans of sports tend to lump them into the same category...now as far as Mosley, I think he started to slide after the Mayweather fight, this is the same guy who tore thru Margarito. What could have hurt Shane in that fight is the layoff. Remember he was supposed to fight Berto that year in January not Floyd in May. He hasn't looked sharp since the 2nd round of the Mayweather fight. Was he past his prime is open to one's interpretation but I don't see it as so


Not only had mosley just tore marg a new asshole but he also put on a great performance against cotto at his absolute peak in a great fight. Back then cottos skill might not have been what it is now but he was an absolute bull mentally. It's a tragedy that he lost that level of confidence the way he did
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mrchitown
post Apr 18 2013, 02:31 PM
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QUOTE (checkleft @ Apr 18 2013, 02:06 PM) *
Not only had mosley just tore marg a new asshole but he also put on a great performance against cotto at his absolute peak in a great fight. Back then cottos skill might not have been what it is now but he was an absolute bull mentally. It's a tragedy that he lost that level of confidence the way he did


I sometimes wish that Margarito fight never happened. He hasn't been the same since then and we see it. He used to engage and fight beautifully. He does it in spots now but everytime he fights we see him get on that bike, and sometimes he does it when he doesn't need to...his fight with Mosley was highly entertaining. Now that was some great back and forth action between 2 great fighters
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Franchize
post Apr 18 2013, 03:07 PM
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QUOTE (mrchitown @ Apr 18 2013, 03:31 PM) *
I sometimes wish that Margarito fight never happened. He hasn't been the same since then and we see it. He used to engage and fight beautifully. He does it in spots now but everytime he fights we see him get on that bike, and sometimes he does it when he doesn't need to...his fight with Mosley was highly entertaining. Now that was some great back and forth action between 2 great fighters


I'm surprised the outcry for towards Magarito possible cheating hasn't been heavier. I think that fight will have long term ramifications on Cotto even beyond his boxing career.
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