[caneman]

That's true but Roy was untouchable...especially at middleweight cause he was knocking those guys out. Roy was Mr. p4p. I pretty much judge someones ATG worthiness from what they did when they were dominate. It's harder to do that with roy because you have bernard who came up with roy and is still doing it now at 46. From 1994 to 2004 RJJ dominated everyone...10 years dominance...10 years of his opponents barely winning a round throught the whole fight. Roy toyed with them guys in the ring and gave them a beating at the same time. Was that body shot to Virgil Hill not one of the best body shots ever..he broke the mans ribs. how about this..if you judge roy from 1994 to 2004 is he an ATG?

At middle he only fought 4 times after beating BHop and only defended the belt 1 time vs Thomas Tate if I am not mistaking, been a few years since I looked at that fact! As untouchable as he was, the second he lost his reflexes some, he was stopped never top notch again!

[caneman]

Yep defended his belt 1 time in 4 fights!

[bosco]

At middle he only fought 4 times after beating BHop and only defended the belt 1 time vs Thomas Tate if I am not mistaking, been a few years since I looked at that fact! As untouchable as he was, the second he lost his reflexes some, he was stopped never top notch again!

He lost his legs and reflexes draining back down to 175...Roy wasn't a conventional boxer and once he lost his legs it was over...but prior to that point there was nothing like him.

[neophyte7]

and he shouldn't be... Tarver reduced him to ashes... LMAO even Tarver is more respectable than RJJ atleast he is not getting the piss beat out him even in his 40s... farewell Roid Jones JR. In my view you were never super... probably straight on ROIDS from the start

[Guest_Fitz_*]

That's not how it works, and you know it.

I suppose if you judge The Flinch from 1993 to 2001 you could make the same argument.

RJJ's legacy is safe. He just won't be remembered as ATG.

Just curious, but why wouldn't you judge him from 1993-2004? That's a huge portion and his prime years, just not sure why you wouldn't evaluate him based on his prime years.

[gravytrain]

Just curious, but why wouldn't you judge him from 1993-2004? That's a huge portion and his prime years, just not sure why you wouldn't evaluate him based on his prime years.

i don't know about Beardo but i judge someone on their entire career. how a fighter handles himself out of his prime is just as important as what he does in his prime for me. RJJ really fell off once he lost it so for me that hurts his all time ranking. i'm not saying he went down 20 spots or anything but i wouldn't have him where he would be if he had just retired after beating Ruiz.

[Guest_Fitz_*]

i don't know about Beardo but i judge someone on their entire career. how a fighter handles himself out of his prime is just as important as what he does in his prime for me. RJJ really fell off once he lost it so for me that hurts his all time ranking. i'm not saying he went down 20 spots or anything but i wouldn't have him where he would be if he had just retired after beating Ruiz.

Yeah, for me I think what fighters do after their prime can effect them for the greater and increase their worth, like Hopkins is doing. For me, if a fighter does what Jones is doing, I won't mark him down or knock him down a few pegs, I just look at him differently but me personally, I won't mark someone down greatly, they just can't really improve.

[bosco]

It;s simple as this..we don't judge Ali from his fights with Spinks, Holmes or Berbick..We judge Ali from when he was the greatest, Michael Jordan is Judged from what he did with the Bulls...we don't judge Jordan from when he played with the Washington Wizards, same with Mike Tyson...He quit on his stool but we know that wasn't "MIKE TYSON' ...ATG are generally judged from what they did when they were dominate and on top of their game.

[Guest_Fitz_*]

Yeah, kind of how I see it. Many fighters go out in embarrassing fashion. Like you said as well, you don't judge Jordan at the Wizards just like you don't judge many athletes after their prime.

[Guest_Fitz_*]

Because I evaluate boxers on their careers. I suppose if I'm going to judge them on windows of their careers then RW0, Calzaghe and Marciano would be automatic ATGs. Not in my book.

They wouldn't be in my book even though I judge during a window. Quite simply, their prime years weren't impressive as others.