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> Who is true boxer of decade (2001-2010)
mrchitown
post Aug 17 2011, 07:05 PM
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QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Aug 17 2011, 06:22 PM) *
Please point out to me the 'redneck'posts I've made on the subject. I'm curious I really am. As to the rest of your post, I read it once (which was once too much) and couldn't understand a syllable of it. It was all over the place like a mad woman having a shit.

Now focus Mr Town and give us something intelligable!

I'd still like you to address the fights which you think are Floyd's greatest wins and how they rank over Hopkons or Pac's greatest wins. I've been quite clear I think 7 fights and only 1 loss to the 3 Mexicans trumps anything Floyd has done, De la Hoya included.

Same with Hopkins wins over Trinidad, Wright, Pavlik and Tarver. Again the only fighter I can put in that category for Floyd is Fishnets. I would put Castillo and Corrales probably in the Pavlik type category. Pretty good fighters with some great wins but peppered with a few too many losses to be ATG's.

Sure Hopkins lost a close disputed decision to Calzaghe but whom has Floyd fought in the last 5 years that was as good as Calzaghe?

If you don't want to go back and forth fine, but at least alert me to my redneck posts will you champ?


I understand what your trying to say but once again I'm looking at the complete body of work. Pac has beaten the mexican warriors and he did it ferociously I misght say, but I still won't gove him credit for fights I dont believe he won like JMM, just like I believe floyd is 40-1 because any1 with sense could see castillo was beating him in their 1st encounter. I'm not looking at when floyd, manny, or b hop fought there opponents I'm looking @ the names and he has quite the resume in that regard. I do agree that Floyd's inactivity is a factor but he has been accused of cherry picking and I believe that pac has done that as of late himself. I love to watch them fight and will continue to do so. But when I look at the wins over corrales, castillo(once) , gatti, zab, dlh, hatton, mosley, JMM. I see his victories more favorably to manny's wins over cotto, margarito, morales, barerra, JMM. He's fought those legends but I'm looking at the complete body of work here. I respect your opinion and agree to disagree
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The Ollie Reed F...
post Aug 17 2011, 07:20 PM
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QUOTE (mrchitown @ Aug 17 2011, 08:05 PM) *
I understand what your trying to say but once again I'm looking at the complete body of work. Pac has beaten the mexican warriors and he did it ferociously I misght say, but I still won't gove him credit for fights I dont believe he won like JMM, just like I believe floyd is 40-1 because any1 with sense could see castillo was beating him in their 1st encounter. I'm not looking at when floyd, manny, or b hop fought there opponents I'm looking @ the names and he has quite the resume in that regard. I do agree that Floyd's inactivity is a factor but he has been accused of cherry picking and I believe that pac has done that as of late himself. I love to watch them fight and will continue to do so. But when I look at the wins over corrales, castillo(once) , gatti, zab, dlh, hatton, mosley, JMM. I see his victories more favorably to manny's wins over cotto, margarito, morales, barerra, JMM. He's fought those legends but I'm looking at the complete body of work here. I respect your opinion and agree to disagree


Fair enough. For me I just can't count Zab or Gatti as great wins. Nor Fatton to be honest. Pac gets no credit there either. Floyd's win over JMM at the weight they fought discounts it for me, as will Pac's win if he does it in the 3rd encounter.

I said from the start though I actually give the title to Hopkins. He was fighting dudes at their peak at the start of the decade and is still fighting dudes at their peak at the end of the decade and now 2 weight classes up. In many ways his resume is the least attractive of all 3 but crucially when he fought them makes up for it (in my opinion.)
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Guest_Fitz_*
post Aug 17 2011, 07:44 PM
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QUOTE (sduck @ Aug 18 2011, 09:24 AM) *
Showdown: Mayweather - Pacquiao - Hopkins
Record: 15-0 - 16-1-2 - 12-3 - Mayweather
Record in Title Fights: 13-0 - 16-1-2 - 11-3 - Mayweather
Titles Owned(Any "title"): 10 - 10 - 6 - Mayweather/Pacquiao
Weight Class Transitions(Including fluctuation): 7 - 8 - 1 - Pacquiao
Undefeated Fights(Regardless of who won): 2 - 3 - 5 - Hopkins
Longest Running Champion: 7 years - 9 years - 4 years - Pacquiao

Score: 3 - 3 - 1 - Draw: Mayweather/Pacquiao

If more things were included like "Most Money Earned". Mayweather would be the winner.


Updated with Calzaghe included

Showdown: Mayweather - Pacquiao - Hopkins - Calzaghe
Record: 15-0 - 16-1-2 - 12-3 - 16-0 Calzaghe
Record in Title Fights: 13-0 - 16-1-2 - 11-3 - 14-0 Calzaghe
Titles Owned(Any "title"): 10 - 10 - 6 - 4 Mayweather/Pacquiao
Weight Class Transitions(Including fluctuation): 7 - 8 - 1 - 2 Pacquiao
Undefeated Fights(Regardless of who won): 2 - 3 - 5 - 3Hopkins
Longest Running Champion: 7 years - 9 years - 4 years - 6 years Pacquiao

Winner: Pacquiao with Calzaghe second

See how this doesn't work? You can make up your own criteria to work towards a certain way. Also strange that something important like 'title' defenses were not included in this criteria. Which would make Calzaghe tied at number 1 if you judged like that.


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sduck
post Aug 17 2011, 09:33 PM
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QUOTE (Fitz @ Aug 17 2011, 08:44 PM) *
Updated with Calzaghe included

Showdown: Mayweather - Pacquiao - Hopkins - Calzaghe
Record: 15-0 - 16-1-2 - 12-3 - 16-0 Calzaghe
Record in Title Fights: 13-0 - 16-1-2 - 11-3 - 14-0 Calzaghe
Titles Owned(Any "title"): 10 - 10 - 6 - 4 Mayweather/Pacquiao
Weight Class Transitions(Including fluctuation): 7 - 8 - 1 - 2 Pacquiao
Undefeated Fights(Regardless of who won): 2 - 3 - 5 - 3Hopkins
Longest Running Champion: 7 years - 9 years - 4 years - 6 years Pacquiao

Winner: Pacquiao with Calzaghe second

See how this doesn't work? You can make up your own criteria to work towards a certain way. Also strange that something important like 'title' defenses were not included in this criteria. Which would make Calzaghe tied at number 1 if you judged like that.

The main discussion were between Mayweather, Pacquiao, and Hopkins. I may add Calzaghe's resume later if more people feel he should be "nominated". Uhh, "Record in Title Fights" include title defenses. You make it seem like I was purposely trying to make someone win... In reverse it makes you seem like you're purposely trying to make someone lose (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
On another note, what would be an legitimate reward and comparisons? It doesn't seem like anyone here is really doing that, instead are just saying, "Oh I think the caliber of fighters he fought is much better" aka opinion, aka more possible bias.

This post has been edited by sduck: Aug 17 2011, 09:37 PM
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Guest_Fitz_*
post Aug 18 2011, 12:32 AM
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QUOTE (sduck @ Aug 18 2011, 12:33 PM) *
The main discussion were between Mayweather, Pacquiao, and Hopkins. I may add Calzaghe's resume later if more people feel he should be "nominated". Uhh, "Record in Title Fights" include title defenses. You make it seem like I was purposely trying to make someone win... In reverse it makes you seem like you're purposely trying to make someone lose (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
On another note, what would be an legitimate reward and comparisons? It doesn't seem like anyone here is really doing that, instead are just saying, "Oh I think the caliber of fighters he fought is much better" aka opinion, aka more possible bias.


Well I know it's semi included, but title defenses is slightly different. It shows how many times you 'successfully' defended your title, the same title.

Title fights include losses, and fighting for different titles, I think there is a difference between the 2 and the amount of times someone 'successfully' defends there title is a good stat.

For example Bernard Hopkins who has 20 title defenses (I know a lot of these were before 2001) would not get a point on this criteria for his defenses. He is also punished as well because for a long portion, he only held 4 titles because that's the maximum you could have in that one division, and when you're undisputed and defending your title for years and years, you won't pick up 'other' titles. Yet someone like Mayweather can have a fight with Gatti and win a title, pick up a paper title off Judah, beats Hatton at 147, Oscar's 154 title and there he is already in 4.
Someone that jumps up and down in weight picking up paper titles gets rewarded, yet someone who stays put and defends the same title a numerous amount of times gets punished.
Just the way it is, it's designed in a bias way. For example the criteria "Weight Class Transitions(Including fluctuation):". What the hell??? Then right at the end, you put this 'gem':

"If more things were included like "Most Money Earned". Mayweather would be the winner."


Like seriously?

Too many holes if you're using that method to determine the best fighter, and it's designed in a bias way.
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MeDatsWho
post Aug 18 2011, 01:05 AM
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You guys have to understand Pac wasn't considered an amazing fighter until he moved up to 140 and won... Before that Pac was an exiciting fighter who was fun to watch but lost to morales, i thought jmm beat him twice, hes been KOed before.. Mayweather ever since the start of the decade was already considered great and the reason people would talk bad about his opposition was because they already expected so much from him because he was simple an amazing talent and it was obvious. Floyd is really the true boxer of the decade and Pac is amazing I give him credit but hes more hype and has fought people floyd already beat and is in love with catchweights.
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The Ollie Reed F...
post Aug 18 2011, 05:39 AM
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QUOTE (MeDatsWho @ Aug 18 2011, 02:05 AM) *
You guys have to understand Pac wasn't considered an amazing fighter until he moved up to 140 and won... Before that Pac was an exiciting fighter who was fun to watch but lost to morales, i thought jmm beat him twice, hes been KOed before.. Mayweather ever since the start of the decade was already considered great and the reason people would talk bad about his opposition was because they already expected so much from him because he was simple an amazing talent and it was obvious. Floyd is really the true boxer of the decade and Pac is amazing I give him credit but hes more hype and has fought people floyd already beat and is in love with catchweights.


To be honest it was Pac's acheivements below 140 that I think are his most impressive. I mean who gives a fuck if you were considered great at the start of the decade? I'm not sure Floyd was to be honest, all his best fights were still in front of him.

Pac beat the shit out of Barerra when he was a complete unknown, manhandled Morales in away that a supposed beast like Maidana wasn't able to, and yes went wire to wire with JMM, a guy that Barerra nor Morales had taken on. Make no mistake JMM is a BEAST at those weights and going 2 close fights to him is a pretty good accomplishment. In fact I think a prime JMM is a helluva lot more of a handful than any of the fighters Floyd faced at a lighter weight and yes in my opinion I'd include JLC.

At the higher weights Floyd fought Zab, (Baldy's scraps), DLH, (Bernards scraps), Mosley (Cotto's scraps), JMM (Pac's scraps) and Baldy the feather duster seller from Argentina. Oh and I forgot Hatton the undefeated bruiser from Manchester. Really not a stunning resume.
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riddick
post Aug 18 2011, 09:11 AM
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Listen to me, if Floyd beat Pac... you critics Floyd and you know about it.You guys never give credit to Floyd.But May deserves it.Simply said "i am big hater".
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lloyd mayflower
post Aug 18 2011, 09:22 AM
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QUOTE (riddick @ Aug 18 2011, 03:11 PM) *
Listen to me, if Floyd beat Pac... you critics Floyd and you know about it.You guys never give credit to Floyd.But May deserves it.Simply said "i am big gigantic nuthugger who comes to a discussion board with no intention od any form of discussion, I am simply here to impose my love for Floyd onto others and demand that they love him too, I am, essentially the Jehovah's witness of the boxing forum world".



Fixed your post for you mate. Dont need to thank me.
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EAlbian
post Aug 18 2011, 09:30 AM
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QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Aug 18 2011, 06:39 AM) *
To be honest it was Pac's acheivements below 140 that I think are his most impressive. I mean who gives a fuck if you were considered great at the start of the decade? I'm not sure Floyd was to be honest, all his best fights were still in front of him.

Pac beat the shit out of Barerra when he was a complete unknown, manhandled Morales in away that a supposed beast like Maidana wasn't able to, and yes went wire to wire with JMM, a guy that Barerra nor Morales had taken on. Make no mistake JMM is a BEAST at those weights and going 2 close fights to him is a pretty good accomplishment. In fact I think a prime JMM is a helluva lot more of a handful than any of the fighters Floyd faced at a lighter weight and yes in my opinion I'd include JLC.

At the higher weights Floyd fought Zab, (Baldy's scraps), DLH, (Bernards scraps), Mosley (Cotto's scraps), JMM (Pac's scraps) and Baldy the feather duster seller from Argentina. Oh and I forgot Hatton the undefeated bruiser from Manchester. Really not a stunning resume.


You make it seem like Judah was a nobody, he was the unified undisputed ww champ who happen to lose to Baldomir. DLH was no middleweight, we all know that. He was still effective @154(some say his best weight). Mosley had just demolished the man who took Cotto's heart. JMM(is nobody's scraps) was as good as he is today and coming off a great fight with Diaz. Baldomir was the unified ww champ, he was #1 at the weight, how can you knock him for fighting him? I'm not saying Mayweather has the best resume but its still legit, you give the man 0 credit. is it just because you expect him to dominate all those fights?

People(not me) would argue DLH beat him. Judah was effective. He had never fought a fighter like Shane. Baldomir was too big. Mayweather beats all of them clean and its like, "those guys all weren't that good."

You give Pac all the credit in the world for his wins against morales(he lost to him first) Barrera(i still think his best win) and Marquez(2 very close fights) but is there any doubt that had any of those fighters fought Mayweather at 130(they were all @126 at the same time) that he wouldn't have won?

Mayweather is definitely a great fighter, he may have taken an easy path in some respects and not fought all of the best around him. that argument could be made for Hopkin,s as well as Jones, Pacquiao, Leonard and any other fighter of the last 40 years. Not every fight gets made, tell me one fight that could have reasonably been made while Mayweather was @ any given weight(weights he competed @) that you would hands down pick against him?
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