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> WBC Demands Rematch, your thoughts?
Allmenjoi8
post Dec 16 2011, 04:25 PM
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QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 16 2011, 11:31 AM) *
He actually rehydrates to 165 (according to his last fight). I dont believe Sergio is a big MW, I think he primarily moved up because he couldn't get fights that he wanted at 54 (if there was even any competition at the time), nobody wanted to fight him at 54, or the first two reasons + the fact that he could grab the MW title and make more money. The Pavlik fight was great, but Pavlik was done at MW, or the brewskies did a number on him (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Let's not rule this out!


Let's not pretend like Chavez is afraid of Sergio, this is all of Arum's work. I dont believe any fighter is afraid to fight another fighter. If thats the case, why fight? Arum will keep Chavez away from opponents who will likely give him too much trouble, or defeat him. If Chavez came in at 200 pounds, he NOR Martinez would be effective in that fight. Last time I checked, effective pressure/stalking was a skill...so if Sergio doesn't get off first, then we may see a different fight. Martinez has the movement, but he will have a tree to chop down that night.

Sergio only comes in at 165 (according to his last bout that Im sure you didn't watch) on fight night, vs Chavez's 180...so this wont be as easy as it seems. Again, Im sure that you didn't watch the Chavez/Zbik fight either, this guy couldn't do anything with Chavez because of the weight and his lack of punching power. Let's ALL please stop making it seem as if Sergio is this world-beater who can knock everybody out. He may won his last few fights by KO/TKO, but c'mon.

People put waaaay too much mustard on the Paul Williams KO. Please! Paul Williams is notoriously known for being lazy with keeping his left hand up. Hell, he was getting caught with the same punch in the first fight (which Im sure you didn't watch either). Who cant knock Paul Williams out at this point of his career? Point is, Sergio isn't a big MW (rehydrating 5 lbs over the official weight is evidence) and Chavez should be a damn super middleweight, but he looks good at knocking around smaller middleweights OR middleweights with no power, that should be Jr.

MWs. Martinez has pop in his punches, but I cant really fly off the handle and say that he just destroys Chavez. Of course you would fly off the handle and say such things, but its evident that you haven't even watched these fights, and if you did, then you didn't even know what to look for. Sounds like you enjoy repeating what everyone else says.

This fight WILL NOT sell! At this point, Im convinced that you have the slightest clue how PPVs work. Chad Dawson was LUCKY to headline a PPV, he definitely isn't a PPV draw. Hopkins has sold some PPVs in his career, I wont go as far as saying that he slaps a million buys the face everytime he headlines a PPV, but he's sold a decent amount, given his "hate him or love him" personality and fighting style. Just do yourself a favor and not even speak about whether a PPV will sell or not, had you posted this months ago, you'd been in the quicksand already.


He hardly went for head shots in the Zbik fight...he was doing mostly body work. Chavez knew he could beat this dude, and his dad was getting all of that praise that night (as he should've), so Jr. was doing it Sr. style with body shots. He honestly could've had Zbik outta there a early.


I actually did see those fights. Zbik should of won. That was a crap decision but Chavez was at the Staple Center and no way was he losing against Zbik. I also saw the Martinez fight. It took him awhile to find his rhythem but he found it and KO the guy. I did not say Chavez was afraid of Martinez, what I said was, it would not matter at weight he came in, it is a L on that spotless record. If he loses that L to Sergio, that big pay day against Canelo is over. So yeah he would avoid fighting Sergio. Sergio has far too much skill for Chavez. Against a skilled opponent I do not seeing Chavez winning.

The reason why Hopkins and Dawson will sell is because of what happen during and after the fight. If you want to do a sig bet on this I am all game. You just let me know Ms. Cleo. I know how things work people love a story behind any fight/game. The story is that Hopkins bitched out/ Dawson cheated. What more can you want. People know Dawson's name and they will pay to see it is was a Fluke and no I am will not be buying this PPV.
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Cshel86
post Dec 16 2011, 04:50 PM
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QUOTE (Allmenjoi8 @ Dec 16 2011, 04:25 PM) *
I actually did see those fights. Zbik should of won. That was a crap decision but Chavez was at the Staple Center and no way was he losing against Zbik. I also saw the Martinez fight. It took him awhile to find his rhythem but he found it and KO the guy. I did not say Chavez was afraid of Martinez, what I said was, it would not matter at weight he came in, it is a L on that spotless record. If he loses that L to Sergio, that big pay day against Canelo is over. So yeah he would avoid fighting Sergio. Sergio has far too much skill for Chavez. Against a skilled opponent I do not seeing Chavez winning.

The reason why Hopkins and Dawson will sell is because of what happen during and after the fight. If you want to do a sig bet on this I am all game. You just let me know Ms. Cleo. I know how things work people love a story behind any fight/game. The story is that Hopkins bitched out/ Dawson cheated. What more can you want. People know Dawson's name and they will pay to see it is was a Fluke and no I am will not be buying this PPV.

Okay, now Im convinced that you either didn't watch that fight or you didn't know what you were watching. How in the world did Zbik win that fight? Did he win some rounds? Yes. Why? Because Chavez stood there and took his punches and smiled at him...showed no respect for Zbik's punching power (or lack there of). Chavez gave rounds away in that fight.

You're right about the Martinez/Baker fight, finally. Spotless record? How is Chavez's record spotless, when he has a draw? That aint spotless. I doubt if Floyd could walk around claiming to be undefeated, if he had a draw on his record...the world wouldn't allow it. I believe you're just cluelessly riding the Martinez bandwagon, because you've said nothing notable other than what you summed up from everybody else's view of him...you simply say that he has too much skill and he will knock guys out...not enough to convince me that you know whats going on...but who am I? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Again, just leave the PPV talk alone, you're doing yourself no justice by aimlessly continuing. Though you are right about fans liking a story behind a fight, thats pretty much clear and it often sells fights. Im not too sure about this fight being one of them though. The undercards were great in the first fight, but Im not sure if you know that, being the fact that you didn't watch it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I would have to dispute the fact that anybody outside of hardcore fight fans, know who Dawson is. Did Hopkins bitch out? Possibly, I'll give you that. Did Dawson cheat? Cheat!? Really? I would go as far as saying that he fouled Hopkins...thats if we want to go putting the blame on Chad.
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checkleft
post Dec 16 2011, 05:14 PM
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I can't take chavez seriously. He had a great performance against a credible opponent like zbik and then fights a guy like Manfredo? He doesn't even really fight anymore, he works at a ice skating rink.

I don't think Martinez kills him but he will have trouble winning any rounds with Martinez activity, that's if he doesn't get Tko'd. I would have it late stoppage or Tko, it seems like Martinez hits harder everytime I watch him fight.
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bnoles4life
post Dec 16 2011, 07:45 PM
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QUOTE (checkleft @ Dec 16 2011, 06:14 PM) *
I can't take chavez seriously. He had a great performance against a credible opponent like zbik and then fights a guy like Manfredo? He doesn't even really fight anymore, he works at a ice skating rink.

I don't think Martinez kills him but he will have trouble winning any rounds with Martinez activity, that's if he doesn't get Tko'd. I would have it late stoppage or Tko, it seems like Martinez hits harder everytime I watch him fight.


I think it will come down to conditioning....what condition Chavez comes in will largely have a say in how good/bad he performs
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Allmenjoi8
post Dec 16 2011, 07:52 PM
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QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 16 2011, 04:50 PM) *
Okay, now Im convinced that you either didn't watch that fight or you didn't know what you were watching. How in the world did Zbik win that fight? Did he win some rounds? Yes. Why? Because Chavez stood there and took his punches and smiled at him...showed no respect for Zbik's punching power (or lack there of). Chavez gave rounds away in that fight.

You're right about the Martinez/Baker fight, finally. Spotless record? How is Chavez's record spotless, when he has a draw? That aint spotless. I doubt if Floyd could walk around claiming to be undefeated, if he had a draw on his record...the world wouldn't allow it. I believe you're just cluelessly riding the Martinez bandwagon, because you've said nothing notable other than what you summed up from everybody else's view of him...you simply say that he has too much skill and he will knock guys out...not enough to convince me that you know whats going on...but who am I? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Again, just leave the PPV talk alone, you're doing yourself no justice by aimlessly continuing. Though you are right about fans liking a story behind a fight, thats pretty much clear and it often sells fights. Im not too sure about this fight being one of them though. The undercards were great in the first fight, but Im not sure if you know that, being the fact that you didn't watch it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I would have to dispute the fact that anybody outside of hardcore fight fans, know who Dawson is. Did Hopkins bitch out? Possibly, I'll give you that. Did Dawson cheat? Cheat!? Really? I would go as far as saying that he fouled Hopkins...thats if we want to go putting the blame on Chad.


Sergio beats Chavez for the following reason: 1. Sergio has shown that he can adjust in a fight, Chavez seems to be stuck on Plan A, plus he tires towards the end of a fight. 2. Sergio has had tougher opponents, plus Sergio can fight on the inside, he can cut the ring off but most important he is accurate. Now his last fight was a mess but he found himself. His foot work is good and plus he has fairly good defense, that crap when he was hanging his hands low would be all bad against a fast fighter, so he would have to fix that. 3. Sergio is a smart boxer, I do not see that in Chavez.

I did not say Dawson cheated that is how they will sell the fight. Dawson cheater and the rebuttal will be Hopkins went soft and saw a way out. I think Zbik won because he was hitting Chavez at will. Hell Peterson didn't hurt Khan and he won the belt. I think Zbik was a lot more accurate than Jr. but that is my opinion. I did not see the undercard you are absolutely right sue me. A draw isn't a lost so yeah to some that is a flawless record and I am pretty damn sure if May had a draw then he would say "I don't have a L so I am still the man." It is a draw. People still look at Chavez Sr as having a perfect record after that robbery against Whitaker. I am done talking to you are about to mess up my alcohol buzz and that ain't right Shels!

This post has been edited by Allmenjoi8: Dec 16 2011, 08:17 PM
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Cshel86
post Dec 16 2011, 08:18 PM
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QUOTE (Allmenjoi8 @ Dec 16 2011, 07:52 PM) *
Sergio beats Chavez for the following reason: 1. Sergio has shown that he can adjust in a fight, Chavez seems to be stuck on Plan A, plus he tires towards the end of a fight. 2. Sergio has had tougher opponents, plus Sergio can fight on the inside, he can cut the ring off but most important he is accurate. Now his last fight was a mess but he found himself. His foot is good and plus he has fairly good defense. 3. Sergio is a smart boxer, I do not see that in Chavez.

I did not say Dawson cheated that is how they will sell the fight. Dawson cheater and the rebuttle will be Hopkins went soft and saw a way out. I think Zbik won because he was hitting Chavez at will. Hell Peterson didn't hurt Khan and he won the belt. I think Zbik was a lot more accurate than Jr. but that is my opinion. I did not see the undercard you are absolutley right sue me. A draw isn't a lost so yeah to some that is a flawless record and I am pretty damn sure if May had a draw then he would say "I don't have a L so I am still the man." It is a draw. People still look at Chavez Sr as having a perfect record after that robbery against Whitaker. I am done talking to you are about to mess up my alcohol buzz and that ain't right Shels!

Sergio has learned to adjust, but it depends on how long it takes. He had trouble punching through Baker's guard and breaking his defense, but he is such a big puncher (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes_anim.gif) Whoa.What tougher opponents has Sergio had as of late? I would say Baker (based on his defense, and that right hand of his that was landing w/o much authority though)

Dzinziruk - No
P. Willy 2 - No
Pavlik - No
P. Willy 1 - No

Sergio's conditioning and movement is his gift, thats about it. Im not taking anything away from his victories because they got him where he is today, but I wouldn't consider them all that tough fights. Didn't really know Sergio had an inside game...I didn't get the memo on that one. Zbik was not hitting Chavez at will, Chavez was ALLOWING Zbik to hit him. Zbik only hit Chavez a few times at will, but to no avail.

A freakin' draw is considered everything, but a win. I dont know where you got this mess about a draw not being a loss. Gee, Mr. Mayweather (you know...the guy that serially nuthugg) even considers a draw a loss. That came out of his mouth, since you believe everything he says. He even said to Ortiz and about Pacquiao. He said that there are four ways to beat Ortiz and 5 ways to beat Pac.

A draw means that you went life and death with somebody and to no avail, it ended up being an empty bout. If you are seriously drinking right now, then please stop...we wouldn't want you to totally crap out with these off-the-wall posts. Hell, as a matter of fact, keep sipping, it may just help your logic a bit. Dang, you were almost a good poster (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
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Allmenjoi8
post Dec 16 2011, 08:30 PM
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QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 16 2011, 09:18 PM) *
Sergio has learned to adjust, but it depends on how long it takes. He had trouble punching through Baker's guard and breaking his defense, but he is such a big puncher (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes_anim.gif) Whoa.What tougher opponents has Sergio had as of late? I would say Baker (based on his defense, and that right hand of his that was landing w/o much authority though)

Dzinziruk - No
P. Willy 2 - No
Pavlik - No
P. Willy 1 - No

Sergio's conditioning and movement is his gift, thats about it. Im not taking anything away from his victories because they got him where he is today, but I wouldn't consider them all that tough fights. Didn't really know Sergio had an inside game...I didn't get the memo on that one. Zbik was not hitting Chavez at will, Chavez was ALLOWING Zbik to hit him. Zbik only hit Chavez a few times at will, but to no avail.

A freakin' draw is considered everything, but a win. I dont know where you got this mess about a draw not being a loss. Gee, Mr. Mayweather (you know...the guy that serially nuthugg) even considers a draw a loss. That came out of his mouth, since you believe everything he says. He even said to Ortiz and about Pacquiao. He said that there are four ways to beat Ortiz and 5 ways to beat Pac.

A draw means that you went life and death with somebody and to no avail, it ended up being an empty bout. If you are seriously drinking right now, then please stop...we wouldn't want you to totally crap out with these off-the-wall posts. Hell, as a matter of fact, keep sipping, it may just help your logic a bit. Dang, you were almost a good poster (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)


Sergio can box on the inside. It doesn't happen often but he is not that bad. Those names you just listed are far better than Chavez's 40 plus opponents! A draw is not a loss. If it was a loss it would be just that, a loss. I do not care what Mayweather says, it is my opinion. It is like a tie in football or basketball, soccer, and hockey. It is not an L. I am not a nut hugger! I am a good poster but I will not change my stance because the O Mighty Zatoichi tells me different. I know your ladies are like the Scarecrow from the wizard of oz (if they only had a brain)... I get that, but I just know Dawson and Hopkins will sell and I know that Sergio will own Chavez. I am going to pour another glass of Southern Comfort and pretend that you actually feel where I am coming from. I am a good poster!
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Cshel86
post Dec 16 2011, 08:36 PM
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QUOTE (Allmenjoi8 @ Dec 16 2011, 08:30 PM) *
Sergio can box on the inside. It doesn't happen often but he is not that bad. Those names you just listed are far better than Chavez's 40 plus opponents! A draw is not a loss. If it was a loss it would be just that, a loss. I do not care what Mayweather says, it is my opinion. It is like a tie in football or basketball, soccer, and hockey. It is not an L. I am not a nut hugger! I am a good poster but I will not change my stance because the O Mighty Zatoichi tells me different. I know your ladies are like the Scarecrow from the wizard of oz (if they only had a brain)... I get that, but I just know Dawson and Hopkins will sell and I know that Sergio will own Chavez. I am going to pour another glass of Southern Comfort and pretend that you actually feel where I am coming from. I am a good poster!

You're right, it doesn't happen often because he keeps the fight on the outside. Those names may be better than Chavez's opponents, but Chavez has a name and team that the public nuthuggs, so that can easily be overlooked. Oh you became a good poster??? I hadn't noticed...guess I didn't get the memo, sorry (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
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Cheesey1
post Dec 16 2011, 08:45 PM
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I really hope that Chavez Jr. / Arum accept the Martinez fight. If Chavez Jr. wins, then that'll shut people like me up, but until then, IMO, Chavez doesn't deserve to be a champion of anything.
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Allmenjoi8
post Dec 16 2011, 09:14 PM
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QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 16 2011, 09:36 PM) *
You're right, it doesn't happen often because he keeps the fight on the outside. Those names may be better than Chavez's opponents, but Chavez has a name and team that the public nuthuggs, so that can easily be overlooked. Oh you became a good poster??? I hadn't noticed...guess I didn't get the memo, sorry (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumbsdown_anim.gif) No Merry Christmas to CShels
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