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> Whos in the right?, Canelo not budging from 154 Floyd not budging from 147
mrchitown
post May 18 2013, 12:31 PM
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QUOTE (KOpower @ May 18 2013, 09:13 AM) *
Let's get this out of the way. I agree that Canelo can not dictate terms. I agree with you on that. Let's move on to the point we seem to disagree on.

How is a 154 pound fighter not being able to fight at 147 "dictating terms"? He literally can't drop down to 147. Floyd's camp making that request isn't reasonable. Now I can agree with a CW fight if Canelo can get down to 151 or 150 but in the past Mayweather said that he would never do a CW fight. I don't know if Mayweather would be up for that.

As far as what he has done to warrant the fight, he is coming off of a huge win over a very good Austin Trout. Canelo is a big/strong 154 pound fighter with really good power and quick hands. Is that enough? I think so considering Floyd's last fight was with a guy who had only beaten Andre Berto. When you look at the resume of fighters like Victor Ortiz and Robert Guerrero then you can understand why Canelo's resume might be enough.

Saying that Canelo has to take what's given to him is silly if Canelo physically can't do it. Floyd can't call the shots on something Canelo can't do. If Floyd is making such an unreasonable request, the only thing I can think of is that he doesn't really want the fight.



I don't think Canelo has to take what's given to him but he hasn't carried a PPV before, his resume is filled with 1 good fighter and blown up junior welters. You bring up Guerrero and Ortiz and they've faced better opposition then Canelo! I REPEAT beating up the likes of boxers like Ryan Rhodes, Matthew Hatton, Josesito Lopez, Kermit I'm losing my mind Cintron, and a washed up and washed out Mosley does NOT make him a world beater and does NOT give him a bargaining chip...I don't know why that's hard to understand to some

Ortiz had Maidana, Berto, Lamont Peterson on his resume. No way in hell you gon tell me that Canelo has faced that kind of opposition. On resume alone you lose that argument. He won officially against Trout but like I said I felt he lost and truthfully the fight could've gon either way. And again show me where Floyd himself said he wanted this man to drop to 47..Most of the info we've heard is from Canelo's team and that one quote from Floyd sr and they're saying that he came up with that not Floyd himself. Until I hear the actual boxer himself say it then to me it's just hearsay

I think people are saying that Canelo demanded this and demanded that because of his previous action when he was originally slated to fight ion the May 4th undercard and he didn't because Mayweather wouldn't sign for a fight for September and now you have his trainer and manager coming out saying no catchweight, no this no that....those are actual facts

The sad truth is if he wants to fight he's more then likely going to have to bend more then halfway to get it....he's not a star, casuals don't really know him like that, I'm hoping this fight happens very soon and I expect it will be next year so this whole debate can be null and void
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mrchitown
post May 18 2013, 12:42 PM
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QUOTE (Dolimite @ May 18 2013, 11:41 AM) *
Chi I swear I hate talking to people about Saul I really do. he isn't impressive at all. He has improved but come on. Good post.


It's a necessary evil I guess, at least there's some excitement around the sport because of this potential fight...it does get on my nerves at times because you have people who rally for one fighter and if you argue a point about the other fighter your a Flomo or a Pactard. It's like in today's age you can't be a fan of multiple things in this case boxers without being ostracized by some idiot. I appreciate the sport of Boxing and I will continue to do so after Mayweather, pacquio, Hopkins, Ward, and who ever else retires...I think stuff like calling people Flomo's is a result of people's insecurities with themselves

Caenlo is developing a pretty nice fan base for himself which can only add to the intrigue of the fight he and Mayweather will eventually have, I turthfully can't wait for it to happen so all the foolishness will die down and go away. I think Canelo is going to be another notch on Mayweather's belt and his whole aura and sudden fans will die down just like Guerrero's did, it might actually end up worse for him then Robert
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mgrover
post May 18 2013, 12:45 PM
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While Saul should shut the fuck up, at the same time May weather asking to drain him to 147lb is just absurd. I couldn't give a shit if he's the almighty if he wants the credit he should fight him at 154lb. Saying I want this at 147lb is just a clear cut way of saying this fight ain't happening and am the reason why. Am sure before Sr was game for any weight and now he's like oh 147lb, like arum says. Yesterday I was lying today am telling the truth
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jtiizzle
post May 18 2013, 03:11 PM
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QUOTE (mrchitown @ May 18 2013, 09:31 AM) *
I don't think Canelo has to take what's given to him but he hasn't carried a PPV before, his resume is filled with 1 good fighter and blown up junior welters. You bring up Guerrero and Ortiz and they've faced better opposition then Canelo! I REPEAT beating up the likes of boxers like Ryan Rhodes, Matthew Hatton, Josesito Lopez, Kermit I'm losing my mind Cintron, and a washed up and washed out Mosley does NOT make him a world beater and does NOT give him a bargaining chip...I don't know why that's hard to understand to some

Ortiz had Maidana, Berto, Lamont Peterson on his resume. No way in hell you gon tell me that Canelo has faced that kind of opposition. On resume alone you lose that argument. He won officially against Trout but like I said I felt he lost and truthfully the fight could've gon either way. And again show me where Floyd himself said he wanted this man to drop to 47..Most of the info we've heard is from Canelo's team and that one quote from Floyd sr and they're saying that he came up with that not Floyd himself. Until I hear the actual boxer himself say it then to me it's just hearsay

I think people are saying that Canelo demanded this and demanded that because of his previous action when he was originally slated to fight ion the May 4th undercard and he didn't because Mayweather wouldn't sign for a fight for September and now you have his trainer and manager coming out saying no catchweight, no this no that....those are actual facts

The sad truth is if he wants to fight he's more then likely going to have to bend more then halfway to get it....he's not a star, casuals don't really know him like that, I'm hoping this fight happens very soon and I expect it will be next year so this whole debate can be null and void

If you can fill up a stadium with 40k people you can fight on PPV, Mexican fanbase dominates the sport of boxing. We are talking about the biggest boxing star in mexico they love that kid. This PPV will exceed 2million Buys for sure. I just feel they know this kid is 22 years old and has boxing ability, and throws all his punches with very bad intentions....they don't want this fight. Didn't he fight ortiz at welter? ortiz came in at 164 and was a young lion.If you watch alvarez fights he usually is around 164-168 on fightnight, only this time he came in at 170+, too me it's a duck and it's sad because i think floyd would beat him but he won't take the risk for the fans and the sport, period.

This post has been edited by jtiizzle: May 18 2013, 03:34 PM
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BrutUalBK
post May 18 2013, 03:47 PM
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On one hand I say Floyd is wrong to make him drain to 147 if the title fight is for the belt at 154, however if Canelo was challenging for Floyd's WW belt then it would be the right thing for Mayweather to tell him he needs to come down to 147.

On the other hand I say that while Canelo is gaining popularity and has a belt/title at 154 he isn't in the driver's seat and he hasn't really beaten anyone other than Trout (though I felt he lost that fight) and cannot dictate terms towards the sports #1 P4P fighter in the world (in essence this is what Saul Canelo is really fighting for) and without a resume filled with HOFers and having beaten up smaller or older fighters doesn't put you on that level with Floyd to be trying to dictate anything towards him.

We all know that if the fight takes place at 154 then on fight night Canelo blows up to 170 and Money usually drops to 148ish and the size advantage increases even more, i believe there needs to be a clause and the fight should take place at 154 with the clause that says Saul must weigh that same weight on fight night.

I believe that would be fair to all parties.
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checkleft
post May 18 2013, 05:31 PM
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QUOTE (KOpower @ May 18 2013, 09:58 AM) *
You sound like a casual fan pointing to the scorecards. Every reasonable person that watched the fight had Pac winning. Now some Pac haters on here will change their story and say that Bradley won because they hate Pac but outside of those people everyone knew Pac was the better man. Bradley vs Mayweather is an easy win for Floyd.

Every reasonable person? 3 judges scored it for Bradley. And pac gave away rounds that's on him, just cause your on the Dick doesn't mean anything for him. And if he was the better man he would have won
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Hops
post May 18 2013, 05:45 PM
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Thomas Hearns' punching power was freakishly scary as hell and is probably a bigger health hazard than any version of the bigger Canelo. But that didn't prevent Sugar Ray from fighting him.

Legends are afforded ducks from time to time. But not when it matters. Floyd has already ducked a series of fighters when they were at their primes. Lots of people outside of this forum will declare him a certified duck if this fight is not made due to "weight issues".
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mrchitown
post May 19 2013, 01:01 AM
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QUOTE (jtiizzle @ May 18 2013, 03:11 PM) *
If you can fill up a stadium with 40k people you can fight on PPV, Mexican fanbase dominates the sport of boxing. We are talking about the biggest boxing star in mexico they love that kid. This PPV will exceed 2million Buys for sure. I just feel they know this kid is 22 years old and has boxing ability, and throws all his punches with very bad intentions....they don't want this fight. Didn't he fight ortiz at welter? ortiz came in at 164 and was a young lion.If you watch alvarez fights he usually is around 164-168 on fightnight, only this time he came in at 170+, too me it's a duck and it's sad because i think floyd would beat him but he won't take the risk for the fans and the sport, period.


$10 tickets, who the fuck would miss that? I'm not saying that it wasn't a big fight but the prices certainly helped to sell the fight even more...I guess we'll have to agree to disagree because as I said before the duck label gets thrown around too freely and I don;t think it's a duck. Alvarez does punch with force but he doesn't seem to be a hard puncher, he's heavy handed though...this fight will happen and when it does I will be the first to LOL at everyone on here who thought Canelo could actually beat Mayweather
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Dolimite
post May 19 2013, 08:21 AM
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QUOTE (jtiizzle @ May 18 2013, 01:11 PM) *
If you can fill up a stadium with 40k people you can fight on PPV, Mexican fanbase dominates the sport of boxing. We are talking about the biggest boxing star in mexico they love that kid. This PPV will exceed 2million Buys for sure. I just feel they know this kid is 22 years old and has boxing ability, and throws all his punches with very bad intentions....they don't want this fight. Didn't he fight ortiz at welter? ortiz came in at 164 and was a young lion.If you watch alvarez fights he usually is around 164-168 on fightnight, only this time he came in at 170+, too me it's a duck and it's sad because i think floyd would beat him but he won't take the risk for the fans and the sport, period.

10 dollar tickets bro and look where they fought, in TEXAS, lots of Mexicans in Texas. Had this fight been in Atlantic City or even MSG I doubt 40K fans would want to see someone they hardly heard of. Other ethnic groups watch boxing. If Mexicans were the only real boxing fans then black, white, and other Spanish speaking fighters from countries other than Mexico. Mexicans do make up a great fan base but they are not the only ones who are strong supporters of boxing. Every fighter throws a punch with bad intentions. Again, who has Saul beat that would make you think he has a shot with Mayweather? If Saul was such a big PPV attraction he would have done his own but let's face it the casual fan has no idea who Saul is. Let's be real.

QUOTE (mrchitown @ May 18 2013, 11:01 PM) *
$10 tickets, who the fuck would miss that? I'm not saying that it wasn't a big fight but the prices certainly helped to sell the fight even more...I guess we'll have to agree to disagree because as I said before the duck label gets thrown around too freely and I don;t think it's a duck. Alvarez does punch with force but he doesn't seem to be a hard puncher, he's heavy handed though...this fight will happen and when it does I will be the first to LOL at everyone on here who thought Canelo could actually beat Mayweather

+1! I hope they fight in September so this shit can be put to rest.
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mrchitown
post May 19 2013, 04:29 PM
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QUOTE (Dolimite @ May 19 2013, 08:21 AM) *
10 dollar tickets bro and look where they fought, in TEXAS, lots of Mexicans in Texas. Had this fight been in Atlantic City or even MSG I doubt 40K fans would want to see someone they hardly heard of. Other ethnic groups watch boxing. If Mexicans were the only real boxing fans then black, white, and other Spanish speaking fighters from countries other than Mexico. Mexicans do make up a great fan base but they are not the only ones who are strong supporters of boxing. Every fighter throws a punch with bad intentions. Again, who has Saul beat that would make you think he has a shot with Mayweather? If Saul was such a big PPV attraction he would have done his own but let's face it the casual fan has no idea who Saul is. Let's be real.


+1! I hope they fight in September so this shit can be put to rest.


It's plenty of different ethnic backgrounds that make up the Boxing fan base. But the Hispanic market is being catered to by these promoters because now we're seeing a lot of boxers from those backgrounds

I hope so too so the whole debate can be put to rest
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