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> What Are Your Ideas For Cleaning Up Boxing?
Franchize
post Jan 14 2013, 12:21 PM
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I think without a governing body and boxer's union that is independent and non-bias, all other suggestions can be nullified. The snake promoters will find a way around em.

This post has been edited by Franchize: Jan 14 2013, 12:22 PM
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Cshel86
post Jan 14 2013, 02:48 PM
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QUOTE (mgrover @ Jan 11 2013, 06:47 PM) *
shooting bob arum is a start

Case closed (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

PS: I hope nobody' reading this shit. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
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daprofessor
post Jan 16 2013, 01:38 PM
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i think the whole comparison to ufc/mma needs to stop.

i think boxing stands alone and should stop letting mma ride on its coat tails.

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Southeastpaw
post Jan 16 2013, 10:56 PM
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QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jan 16 2013, 01:38 PM) *
i think the whole comparison to ufc/mma needs to stop.

i think boxing stands alone and should stop letting mma ride on its coat tails.

My intention is not to offend anyone. But it is a business model that works, which was started by guys who love boxing. I don't see an issue. There are quite a few boxers who see this, Roy Jones being one of them.
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mrchitown
post Jan 17 2013, 02:28 AM
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QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jan 16 2013, 12:38 PM) *
i think the whole comparison to ufc/mma needs to stop.

i think boxing stands alone and should stop letting mma ride on its coat tails.


I agree. I love boxing, but I like mma. But Dana White and the UFC have made a killing off the backs of boxing. They constantly threw PPV's during boxing events or boxing PPV's until Mayweather crushed them, but they've always made a point to bash boxing.

If the product is so great then you don't need to bash the competitor to build yours up. I admit there are some things that the UFC does that is admirable and can be incorporated into boxing but for overall business boxing is better. UFC has a monopoly on MMA, they want people to think UFC when they think MMA. WEC was on the way up, what happened? UFC bought them and absorbed them, Strikeforce was coming up but Dana said he couldn't envision those fighters in the UFC or women's MMA, what happened? He bought Strikeforce and absorbed them

Now he's touting Rhousey as the face of women's MMa like he knew it all the time when barely a year ago he ain't want nothing to do with her or women's MMA. When they feel the pressure they just throw money at the situation to stop the bleeding. That's not always going to work and their actual numbers aren't as strong as they once were

And they do NOT get paid like boxers do. There are documentaries where fighters speak on it, articles, etc detailing how there's is disparity in the pay across the sports. Look at the Rampage interview that yahoo put up yesterday, he's not even getting paid what he's worth and he's a star. They won't let him use his reebok sponsor over some licensing bs but Jon Jones can use his Nike sponsor. Those MMA fighters need that sponsorship money. Bellator is the only comp out there for UFC and I prefer them to the UFC. But as a whole MMA, particularly UFC is just a messed up as boxing

This post has been edited by mrchitown: Jan 17 2013, 02:30 AM
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Southeastpaw
post Jan 17 2013, 08:10 AM
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Please don't get me wrong. I love boxing. It is my top love. But I get extremely aggrivated when the fights that need to happen do not happen. That is not an issue in the UFC. Some look at the UFC monopolizing the sport a bad thing. I don't see how. Too many organizations mean the best fighters of different organizations won't fight eachother.

Pay... The elite fighters in boxing do get paid more than the elite in MMA. However, how many is that. There is Manny and Floyd. Trust me, Anderson Silva is banking. They also get undisclosed amounts. There are fight of the night, sub of the night, and KO of the night bonuses as well. Also, a newcomer to the UFC who is on a facebook prelim is guaranteed to make more than a somewhat established fighter fighting on ESPN. The UFC speads the money out. Everyone gets some. There is an interview with Lorenzo Fertitta where he explains it in depth. It will open eyes.

If you prefer Belator to the UFC, then you don't exactly care about seeing elite fighters face eachother. I admit, I do like their tournament platform, but it undeniably takes a backseat to the UFC.

The UFC is in it's golden era at the moment. Once competing organizations start to rise and become successful, that is when the sport will start to faulter.

Manny and Floyd should have faced a couple years ago. That fight not happening is one of the biggest crimes in all of sports. If boxing had a model similar to the UFC, that fight would have been done and over with years ago. But fighters have their say on who they want to fight and for how much.

Showtime has already taken some pages out of the Zuffa book. They are putting prelims on Show Extreme and I have even seen some fight bonuses. I am not trying to get all UFC vs boxing. I am saying, try a model that works.

This post has been edited by Southeastpaw: Jan 17 2013, 08:14 AM
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daprofessor
post Jan 17 2013, 02:17 PM
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QUOTE (mrchitown @ Jan 17 2013, 03:28 AM) *
I agree. I love boxing, but I like mma. But Dana White and the UFC have made a killing off the backs of boxing. They constantly threw PPV's during boxing events or boxing PPV's until Mayweather crushed them, but they've always made a point to bash boxing.

If the product is so great then you don't need to bash the competitor to build yours up. I admit there are some things that the UFC does that is admirable and can be incorporated into boxing but for overall business boxing is better. UFC has a monopoly on MMA, they want people to think UFC when they think MMA. WEC was on the way up, what happened? UFC bought them and absorbed them, Strikeforce was coming up but Dana said he couldn't envision those fighters in the UFC or women's MMA, what happened? He bought Strikeforce and absorbed them

Now he's touting Rhousey as the face of women's MMa like he knew it all the time when barely a year ago he ain't want nothing to do with her or women's MMA. When they feel the pressure they just throw money at the situation to stop the bleeding. That's not always going to work and their actual numbers aren't as strong as they once were

And they do NOT get paid like boxers do. There are documentaries where fighters speak on it, articles, etc detailing how there's is disparity in the pay across the sports. Look at the Rampage interview that yahoo put up yesterday, he's not even getting paid what he's worth and he's a star. They won't let him use his reebok sponsor over some licensing bs but Jon Jones can use his Nike sponsor. Those MMA fighters need that sponsorship money. Bellator is the only comp out there for UFC and I prefer them to the UFC. But as a whole MMA, particularly UFC is just a messed up as boxing


this.

plus i will add....monopolies are never good for business. under the ufc's model, the life span of a boxers career would be reduced significantly. in addition to that, the pay drops across the board and the only ones that really make a killing is the ufc.

This post has been edited by daprofessor: Jan 17 2013, 09:14 PM
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daprofessor
post Jan 17 2013, 02:22 PM
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QUOTE (Southeastpaw @ Jan 17 2013, 09:10 AM) *
Please don't get me wrong. I love boxing. It is my top love. But I get extremely aggrivated when the fights that need to happen do not happen. That is not an issue in the UFC. Some look at the UFC monopolizing the sport a bad thing. I don't see how. Too many organizations mean the best fighters of different organizations won't fight eachother.

Pay... The elite fighters in boxing do get paid more than the elite in MMA. However, how many is that. There is Manny and Floyd. Trust me, Anderson Silva is banking. They also get undisclosed amounts. There are fight of the night, sub of the night, and KO of the night bonuses as well. Also, a newcomer to the UFC who is on a facebook prelim is guaranteed to make more than a somewhat established fighter fighting on ESPN. The UFC speads the money out. Everyone gets some. There is an interview with Lorenzo Fertitta where he explains it in depth. It will open eyes.

If you prefer Belator to the UFC, then you don't exactly care about seeing elite fighters face eachother. I admit, I do like their tournament platform, but it undeniably takes a backseat to the UFC.

The UFC is in it's golden era at the moment. Once competing organizations start to rise and become successful, that is when the sport will start to faulter.

Manny and Floyd should have faced a couple years ago. That fight not happening is one of the biggest crimes in all of sports. If boxing had a model similar to the UFC, that fight would have been done and over with years ago. But fighters have their say on who they want to fight and for how much.

Showtime has already taken some pages out of the Zuffa book. They are putting prelims on Show Extreme and I have even seen some fight bonuses. I am not trying to get all UFC vs boxing. I am saying, try a model that works.


i hear that argument and i do NOT agree with it at all.

u can point to mayweather/pac as the ultimate example...but boxing pits the best against the best more often than not. also...when u understand what it takes to build a fighter into a legitimate attraction, it becomes more business/entertainment than sport. each move has to be carefully calculated to get a return on the investment. when the 'best' fight the 'best' in mma...these guys typically have very few fights and years into the sport in comparison to their boxing counterparts....so there is waaaay more at stake in boxing. in mma...fighters are disposable. in boxing...not so much.

the bonuses that they are giving are what boxing used to do...they never stopped doing it in the amateurs. typically...they give trophies to fighter of the night, bout of the night...etc..etc... so what the ufc is doing is nothing new. what they have done is simply packaged a new sport and have been learning from the mistakes of boxing. will mma be as big as boxing world wide? that remains to be seen. at one point, only americans were playing baseball and basketball...now, it's a world wide thing. ufc, being the small organized company it is...is growing and realizing that they have to kill or eat up their competition before it has a chance to grow. fertitta came into this with money to burn and has made some great things happen for his organization. it's a different/new sport...and has absolutely nothing to do with boxing. they've made their name off of shitting on boxing for years. most websites have helped them grow by covering their sport and letting them piggy back off of boxing simply because they are a combat sport. i watched very early on...and have tried to be a fan. it just doesn't appeal to me. fertitta himself views boxing as the enemy because he feels they are targeting the same demographic. i guess that's why it's always been the companies position to shit on boxing verbally. in the end, i believe both sports will co-exist. do i believe boxing can learn from mma? they can re-learn some of what they used to do when it was a smaller sport....but there are far too many participants/promoters/sanctioning bodies world wide that are very established to tear boxing down and start all over. if mma is going to have competition...i don't believe it will come from the u.s. competition is what spurs innovation. anyone remember the race to the moon? without any real competition on the horizon, i can see the ufc fizzling over the years. i don't anyone that gets excited to see two grown men roll on a mat trying to choke each other out. oranges and apples.

This post has been edited by daprofessor: Jan 17 2013, 09:32 PM
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mrchitown
post Jan 17 2013, 04:12 PM
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A monopoly is not good for any industry that's just plain foolish. The radio act of 1927 is a perfect example. You had few business men running ALL the radio stations, and when you have a monopoly in any industry then those individuals can control the message, right or wrong that 1 group controls it all. That is not fair and essentially it is unethical.

The UFC is already starting to falter, their PPV #'s ain't what they used to be and let's be real... Jon Jones is the face of the UFC and he's essentially calling the shots as evidenced by him declining to fight Sonnen on short notice. Tell me what Sonnen did to earn a crack at Bones? He was dismantled months earlier by Silva. And now Dana is trying to make Cormier fight against Bones. He ain't earned that. Are these the matchups the sport needs. The UFC is full of shit just like boxing,most are just to naive to see it

And if you prefer a monopoly then that's like preferring slave wages because its been many articles written about pay out differences between boxing and MMA, and the report found that boxing cards have a payout ratio of 70/30 for the fighters as compared to the UFC whose avg s 20%. I don't get how they can pay their fighters so much as some claim but Rampage has went on record numerous times to say how poorly the UFC treats and pay its fighters particularly him. He's a top dog their getting slave wages but they pay their fighters better then boxing? FOH, that's a lie. When it comes to pay the UFC is behind and I'd argue that they treat their fighters worse then any boxing promo company, even Arum
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Jack 1000
post Jan 17 2013, 04:14 PM
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QUOTE (Southeastpaw @ Jan 17 2013, 07:10 AM) *
Please don't get me wrong. I love boxing. It is my top love. But I get extremely aggrivated when the fights that need to happen do not happen. That is not an issue in the UFC. Some look at the UFC monopolizing the sport a bad thing. I don't see how. Too many organizations mean the best fighters of different organizations won't fight eachother.

Pay... The elite fighters in boxing do get paid more than the elite in MMA. However, how many is that. There is Manny and Floyd. Trust me, Anderson Silva is banking. They also get undisclosed amounts. There are fight of the night, sub of the night, and KO of the night bonuses as well. Also, a newcomer to the UFC who is on a facebook prelim is guaranteed to make more than a somewhat established fighter fighting on ESPN. The UFC speads the money out. Everyone gets some. There is an interview with Lorenzo Fertitta where he explains it in depth. It will open eyes.

If you prefer Belator to the UFC, then you don't exactly care about seeing elite fighters face eachother. I admit, I do like their tournament platform, but it undeniably takes a backseat to the UFC.

The UFC is in it's golden era at the moment. Once competing organizations start to rise and become successful, that is when the sport will start to faulter.

Manny and Floyd should have faced a couple years ago. That fight not happening is one of the biggest crimes in all of sports. If boxing had a model similar to the UFC, that fight would have been done and over with years ago. But fighters have their say on who they want to fight and for how much.

Showtime has already taken some pages out of the Zuffa book. They are putting prelims on Show Extreme and I have even seen some fight bonuses. I am not trying to get all UFC vs boxing. I am saying, try a model that works.


Great points!!!!

Jack
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