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> mayweather vs cotto 2, are the fans interested?
daprofessor
post May 10 2012, 07:50 PM
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QUOTE (Franchize @ May 10 2012, 09:21 AM) *
Floyd has nothing to gain from a rematch. Cotto was at his best, and at best, won 4 rounds. Only thing Floyd would be doing is getting hit unnecessarily in a fight that is going to produce the same results. Even when Cotto was hitting Floyd, there was no point when I thought Floyd was in danger of getting KO'd. I personally think Floyd has proven enough. He shouldn't fight Martinez at 54. I think he should fight at 47. He's the P4P best in the sport. People should be coming to him! Letting him pick the ring size. Letting him pick the glove size and damn sure letting him have the upper hand with the purse. Michael Jordan never wore Harold Minor sneakers lol Remember that!


again...i don't think there are any challenges at 147, pac included. i don't think there was any point where either was in danger of being stopped. i would say that more than anything...what i thoroughly enjoyed was the constant switch in tactics. it was like a chess match. it's been quite a while since floyd has had to dig deep or switch gears and do something different than the norm. i think cotto brings out the best in floyd. i think both are capable of pushing each other to higher heights. no doubt floyd deserves to be in the drivers seat in any negotiations because he's not in this position by accident. he truly is the best in the sport.
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daprofessor
post May 10 2012, 08:01 PM
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QUOTE (Thickback @ May 10 2012, 04:12 PM) *
I would like to see a rematch even though the result won't change. The difference is, IF Floyd in fact had an injured left hand then HE KO's Cotto in the rematch. Also, if he boxes Cotto instead of going toe to toe, Cotto's connect percentage will dwindle.


i still feel u guys are giving cotto very little credit. he applied intelligent pressure to get to floyd. i also don't believe floyd has it in him to stick and move for 12 rounds. cotto is highly capable of making adjustments as well. it'll be interesting to say the least.
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daprofessor
post May 10 2012, 08:09 PM
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QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ May 10 2012, 07:22 PM) *
I agree in part. Floyd to me isnt the p4p best because he has only fought 6 times in 5yrs. Pac has fought anyone and everyone. That being said you cannot deny Floyds skill. With any other opponent other than Pac I would agree with you about Floyd, But Pac is the second biggest draw in the sport. So Although I have no problem with Floyd getting a larger share, Floyd getting all of the PPV revenue is unrealistic.

Put it like this, If Pac gets past Bradley, and Arum produces a contract in the post fight interview. Provides a copy to reporters, and has a signed copy faxed to Floyd with the following provisions, then Floyd looks scared as hell if he doesnt sign

1. Same ring size and glove size as the cotto/floyd fight, A Large venue reserved in Vegas. Olympic style testing done up until the day of the fight, let Floyd enter the ring last, and a 50/50 split.

If Arum made this move and in public stated now sign the fight Floyd or retire the "Chicken Shit" that we all know you are, Floyd would be between a rock and a hard place.


Now Let me be clear, I dont think Floyd or Pac are Cowards, I think they have huge egos, but a shrewd move like this from Arum would put Floyd on a hot seat his career would never recover from if he refused to sign.

Thats what I would do If I were Pacs promoter anyways, and a move like this might actually force the powers that be into making the fight


i think the case can be made that neither pac nor floyd have proven to be the best at 147. they have both taken different approaches....and both are questionable.

floyd took long breaks and picked his opposition when they called him out but ignored others when they did the same.

pac's opposition all had asteriks imo because of weight stipulations, recent beatdowns and trainer issues.

so if neither proved they are the best at 147....how can we say they are the best in all of boxing? what are they the best at? picking opposition that they can beat? strategically avoiding the best opposition available?

i am not sold on pacs dominance, nor have i ever been. it looks like smoke and mirrors to me.

i am sold on floyds skills. they are there for the world to see and very hard to deny. i am not totally sold on his accomplishments setting him far above everyone else.

as for the failed negotiations...and who's at fault...and who deserves the bigger split and all that other b.s....it'll all be moot when pac loses to bradley come june 6th. i would welcome floyd/bradley....but i'd still rather see floyd cotto.
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Run and Gun Game...
post May 10 2012, 08:36 PM
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you may be correct, the one thing I would say is I dont believe Cotto's weight had any factor in the fight with Pac. Cotto is a smaller man that moved to 154, not a larger man who moved down. Secondly watch the fight again v/s Pac. Cotto was not a weight drained fighter laying on the ropes in the later rounds trying to survive (ALA Roy Jones V/S Tarver). Cotto was on his bike running From Manny. Cotto has plenty of energy, he just couldnt land anything eating three shots back in return. Pacs Hand speed was the differance in that fight, it had nothing to do with weight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dO-euwjleUA

Lastly I am of the opinion that Bradley is under-rated, so you may be correct in him beating Pac
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Hotsauce
post May 10 2012, 10:49 PM
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QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ May 10 2012, 06:22 PM) *
I agree in part. Floyd to me isnt the p4p best because he has only fought 6 times in 5yrs. Pac has fought anyone and everyone. That being said you cannot deny Floyds skill. With any other opponent other than Pac I would agree with you about Floyd, But Pac is the second biggest draw in the sport. So Although I have no problem with Floyd getting a larger share, Floyd getting all of the PPV revenue is unrealistic.

Put it like this, If Pac gets past Bradley, and Arum produces a contract in the post fight interview. Provides a copy to reporters, and has a signed copy faxed to Floyd with the following provisions, then Floyd looks scared as hell if he doesnt sign

1. Same ring size and glove size as the cotto/floyd fight, A Large venue reserved in Vegas. Olympic style testing done up until the day of the fight, let Floyd enter the ring last, and a 50/50 split.

If Arum made this move and in public stated now sign the fight Floyd or retire the "Chicken Shit" that we all know you are, Floyd would be between a rock and a hard place.


Now Let me be clear, I dont think Floyd or Pac are Cowards, I think they have huge egos, but a shrewd move like this from Arum would put Floyd on a hot seat his career would never recover from if he refused to sign.

Thats what I would do If I were Pacs promoter anyways, and a move like this might actually force the powers that be into making the fight



they can use 10 oz gloves at ww?


also we don't have the ppv numbers yet.

if mayweather/cotto does 1.5 mill or more, i could see floyd asking for a 60/40 split or 55/45 split.
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Run and Gun Game...
post May 10 2012, 11:05 PM
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QUOTE (Hotsauce @ May 11 2012, 02:49 AM) *
they can use 10 oz gloves at ww?


also we don't have the ppv numbers yet.

if mayweather/cotto does 1.5 mill or more, i could see floyd asking for a 60/40 split or 55/45 split.


I dont know if they can use 10oz at ww or not, thats a great question. As far as the split goes I would be fine with those, as long as it isnt floyd keeping all of the ppv revenue as was previously offered. You talking about 130m in ppv sales
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checkleft
post May 11 2012, 01:28 AM
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QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ May 10 2012, 09:36 PM) *
you may be correct, the one thing I would say is I dont believe Cotto's weight had any factor in the fight with Pac. Cotto is a smaller man that moved to 154, not a larger man who moved down. Secondly watch the fight again v/s Pac. Cotto was not a weight drained fighter laying on the ropes in the later rounds trying to survive (ALA Roy Jones V/S Tarver). Cotto was on his bike running From Manny. Cotto has plenty of energy, he just couldnt land anything eating three shots back in return. Pacs Hand speed was the differance in that fight, it had nothing to do with weight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dO-euwjleUA

Lastly I am of the opinion that Bradley is under-rated, so you may be correct in him beating Pac


Cotto moved to 147 because of weight issues. Yes he is a small man but he has a thick build, he has always been like that. And when cotto gasses his form of stalling is getting on his bike. Watch his fights, and you factor in the rehydration clause that was in effect, their is no doubt that weight was a factor in that fight. Rumor is he regained 10-15 pounds for the Floyd fight and Floyd lost weight due to some cold (bs or not idk).

But I believe you when you say Bradley is underratted. His biggest asset is that he is really smart, he knows when to be aggressive and when to pick his shots and when to smother. But his wide winging shots are the reason I think pac can hurt him.

This post has been edited by checkleft: May 11 2012, 01:30 AM
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Franchize
post May 11 2012, 08:26 AM
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QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ May 10 2012, 07:22 PM) *
Put it like this, If Pac gets past Bradley, and Arum produces a contract in the post fight interview. Provides a copy to reporters, and has a signed copy faxed to Floyd with the following provisions, then Floyd looks scared as hell if he doesnt sign

1. Same ring size and glove size as the cotto/floyd fight, A Large venue reserved in Vegas. Olympic style testing done up until the day of the fight, let Floyd enter the ring last, and a 50/50 split.

If Arum made this move and in public stated now sign the fight Floyd or retire the "Chicken Shit" that we all know you are, Floyd would be between a rock and a hard place.


Now Let me be clear, I dont think Floyd or Pac are Cowards, I think they have huge egos, but a shrewd move like this from Arum would put Floyd on a hot seat his career would never recover from if he refused to sign.

Thats what I would do If I were Pacs promoter anyways, and a move like this might actually force the powers that be into making the fight


But doesn't the fact that Arum HASN'T done that speak volumes? Say what you will about Floyd's demands but everything he's done has been backed up. We heard from BOTH sides that he made the call to get the fight done. We heard from BOTH sides that he wants drug testing. We know where Floyd stands. Arum doesn't even have the full support of Manny's own team. Alex Ariza is even saying he is the one holding up the fight.

End of the day, anyone can go back and forth about who is in the wrong.Who said what and so on and so forth. One thing that is unquestionably suspect and can't be explained:

Bob Arum said the fight couldn't be made because he needed and outdoor stadium AND Floyd offer was "disrespectful". So why is Manny Pacquiao fighting in the SAME VENUE for half of what Floyd offered him?
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Cshel86
post May 11 2012, 09:35 AM
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QUOTE (daprofessor @ May 10 2012, 09:09 PM) *
i think the case can be made that neither pac nor floyd have proven to be the best at 147. they have both taken different approaches....and both are questionable.

I agree with the whole post, and this one sentence sums it up.

QUOTE (Hotsauce @ May 10 2012, 11:49 PM) *
they can use 10 oz gloves at ww?

140 and up use 10oz gloves.

QUOTE (checkleft @ May 11 2012, 02:28 AM) *
Watch his fights, and you factor in the rehydration clause that was in effect, their is no doubt that weight was a factor in that fight.

Thank you. People tend to sweep Team Pacquiao's "rehydration clauses" under the rug for some reason. Hell, I remember him making Oscar come down to 145, then only allowing him to rehydrate 2lbs. He ended up weighing more than Oscar on fight night. WTF? He did similar shit in some of his other fights. I have to find the articles, that's if they haven't been sent to no man's land by now.

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Cshel86
post May 11 2012, 09:41 AM
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With all of this said, Cotto is a "lazy welterweight" as it's been mentioned numerous times. As for the "big fight", we will have to see what the numbers look like. Oh boy, wouldn't it be a shame if Mayweather/Cotto did over 1.4M???

So, if Mayweather/Cotto did over 1.4M buys and Mayweather also making $32 (guaranteed), which is the highest guaranteed purse in the history of the sport...then where does that leave room for any negotiation leverage on Arum's side? Looks like Manny will need Floyd before Floyd needs Manny.

I just dont see how you can be an 8-division champion, loved by the world, be the fighter of the decade along with having a trainer of the year (for consecutive years), and still make less money, compared to a guy that the world either hates, or loves to hate, makes the most. I'm still scratching my head over here...
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