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> Mayweather-Alexander? Not Guerrero? (Topics Merged), Update:IBF Will Not Sanction Mayweather-Alexander (Brook is Mandatory)
Plah
post Jan 29 2013, 02:28 PM
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QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Jan 29 2013, 09:29 AM) *
Please, name names because I dont think he's fought anyone at WW thats 5' 10" with 73 inch reach. Agreed Margarito would have taken some shots, but Mayweathers power isnt on par with a Mosley or a Cotto. He would have had much more to sneer and smile about in a Mayweather fight. Baldomir comes to mind with his 67 inch reach. Mayweather was somewhat spent at the end of that fight. Baldomir went 12 and lost handily, BUT he was not physically as imposing or strong as Margarito. He didnt have any of Margarito's advantages in height, reach and AGE. If you say Margarito would not have been a very difficult fight, to use Floyd's words, you dont know shit about boxing. Fighting is a science about measurements and Floyd knows that well. He matches up with his opponents based on this shrewd observation. If you havent caught on yet in the last 10 years or more, then you arent in on the joke and have no interest in defending him. Please find me guy not named DLH who had a reach ADVANTAGE over Mayweather in the last 10 years. You lose credibility because you wont find one...

Lay down the pipe. Only thing Margarito would have had going for him if that fight had taken place is his chin. That reach advantage (which is minimal btw) means shit when you're slow as shit. He would have lost like Baldomir or even worst, like Corrales.
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checkleft
post Jan 29 2013, 02:42 PM
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QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Jan 29 2013, 09:29 AM) *
Please, name names because I dont think he's fought anyone at WW thats 5' 10" with 73 inch reach. Agreed Margarito would have taken some shots, but Mayweathers power isnt on par with a Mosley or a Cotto. He would have had much more to sneer and smile about in a Mayweather fight. Baldomir comes to mind with his 67 inch reach. Mayweather was somewhat spent at the end of that fight. Baldomir went 12 and lost handily, BUT he was not physically as imposing or strong as Margarito. He didnt have any of Margarito's advantages in height, reach and AGE. If you say Margarito would not have been a very difficult fight, to use Floyd's words, you dont know shit about boxing. Fighting is a science about measurements and Floyd knows that well. He matches up with his opponents based on this shrewd observation. If you havent caught on yet in the last 10 years or more, then you arent in on the joke and have no interest in defending him. Please find me guy not named DLH who had a reach ADVANTAGE over Mayweather in the last 10 years. You lose credibility because you wont find one...

Mayweather not having power doesn't matter, its his speed reflexes and quickness that intimidates. Everybody knows the shots you don't see or expect are the ones that put your lights out. Mosley dismantled margs but he couldn't drop dlh even though mosley was on peds younger faster and stronger back then. Yet when mayweather fought dlh he nearly dropped dlh a few times with short quick counters off his back foot even though he doesn't punch as hard.

Either way this argument is pointless because theirs no telling what would have happened if the fight happened
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mgrover
post Jan 29 2013, 03:41 PM
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while its so much more effort landing any sort of counter or a decent counter with a shorter reach, i know that the hard way, theres nothing wrong with Floyd fighting people with shorter reach than him, Judah was the same, so was Mitchell. According to boxrec anyways.
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Cshel86
post Jan 29 2013, 04:20 PM
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QUOTE (Marcus @ Jan 24 2013, 03:59 PM) *
Corrales was 5'10 1/2 but his reach was 70" thats crazy. You're right, no ones ever had Floyds reach. No wonder why that straight right is so effective...

I totally agree. But that fight isn't worth it. High risk, low reward. He gains nothing from facing Trout unless trout faces Canelo prior. I'd love to see it and see how Floyd adjusts but I dont think that fight will do much for his legacy. Floyd will have to neutralize Trouts reach and with his current style idk if he can do that. Floyd will have to wait for trout to counter him. He will have to go back to the style he used against Marquez. Trout reminded me of Ward a little against Cotto.

Bradley, Canelo, and Martinez are the fights he should take in that order. With Bradley he can unify 147, become Ring Champion, and claim I beat the guy that "beat" pacquiao. Bradley also has an impressive Resume on paper even though on TV they are boring. Hopefully they're no headbutts... Canelo would do great with Floyd in PPV and he could also unify 154 to become ring champ. The risk of losing to Canelo is lower than the risk of losing to Trout. And if Floyd moves up to 160 to fight Serg?! SMH win or lose... all hail Mayweather because he came from 130. It would also be interesting because Serg said he wants 3 more fights then he'll retire, Floyd said the same. So as long as they remain undefeated top level competitors, if these two could have their going away parties in the ring in 2014 that would be one for the books...

I believe he gains a bit more from beating Trout, then Cotto would've gotten for Trout. Had Cotto handled his business with Trout (which was a tall order), then we could omit the Mayweather talk. BUT, since Trout beat Cotto (a fighter with a name) and put the world on notice, then a Trout victory for Floyd (or any other fighter), would be worth a nod.

Trout has a way of making a fight boring, and the only way Floyd beats him easily, would be to circle and box (which was his boring style), so the fight would be a flop, unless Floyd takes a risk and exchange. I just dont see Floyd beating Sergio at 160, but Im sure that people would be delighted for Sergio to drop down to 54, regardless of the health risk. That sounds bad on my part, but the boxing world works in odd ways. Lol

QUOTE (duwdu @ Jan 26 2013, 03:27 AM) *
I like this idea, Cshel, of a Mayweather-Brook fight, should Brook come through those hurdles unscathed. Also, I'm a fan of "Special K" Brook's fighting style. However, the likelihood of a fight between him and Mayweather just/merely being agreed within one month after September and the fight itself for December, is, to say the least, almost nil. Such a fight could happen in 2014, tho'.

Even if in May Canelo loses a chance to fight Mayweather in September, the Mayweather train will likely not start waiting around till August or later, to identify another opponent for September 14th. So I still think the chance that Mayweather fights a second time this year - in September - is pretty high, barring other catastrophes, of course.

Pitching these two sentences together is really unfair of you, Cshel, and really shows your level of distaste for the guy. [I only hope that level does not degenerate to that you had/still have for Allmenjoi8? lol.] Seriously, in view of his incarceration during 2012, whether foreseen (20/20?) or unforeseen, it did not in anyway constitute that Mayweather had lied by him proclaiming much earlier in that year that he was going to fight twice during that year. After all, the way you yourself wrote it, he qualified the proclamation when he said "that he was gonna try to fight twice in 2012."

Relax on Mayweather, man; let him enjoy the emerging twilight of his career.

P34c3

I can see a Mayweather/Brook fight being made just a month after September...trust me, the one and only reliable source from the very website, sat on the Mayweather/Cotto news for 2 months before it was announced. Mark my words on that. Lol

I cant truly say if Floyd is sure to fight in September, he could just hold out til December, who knows? Whose to say that something big wont happen in the WW division? We're only on month #2 of 2013 (well almost), so we never know what could happen. Again, we never know what Floyd wants to do, so I can't hold on to that September date just yet.

There's no distaste towards Floyd, if anything, it's too much taste for Floyd around here. Sometimes, guys forget that boxing is a business, and ANYTHING can happen. Whose to say that Floyd wont fight JMM in May? Who knew that JMM would've put Manny to sleep last month, and derailed the idea of a Rios fight in April? All I'm saying is, Manny and Floyd are the biggest names in the sport, and things do revolve around them...when those things go right.

In the meantime, we must pay attention to every other fighter's schedule, and see what can be made of it. You cant blame me for holding Floyd's word against him. You're right, he did say that he was going to "try" to fight twice in 2012, but the dude was only in jail for 60 days. I've seen guys like Tyson, do YEARS, and got right back out and was talking boxing.

Those years that Tyson did, could've been a financial hit (maybe), but Floyd doing 2 little months in isolation, is nothing. An average citizen's life would be totally derailed (money, job, etc) after 2 months behind bars, but a guy of Floyd's financial caliber, should've been just fine.

It's funny how his fans hold on to every single word that comes out of his mouth, but when he doesn't follow through, guys start making excuses for him. What if he doesn't fight in September? Then what?
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Cshel86
post Jan 29 2013, 04:50 PM
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QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Jan 27 2013, 08:16 PM) *
Just curious... Why are people so quick to defend a guy who hasnt delivered the goods we would like. Do you defend the mailman when he doesnt bring you all of your mail. "You know, well it was raining and the ground was muddy. He just delivered a few of my letters. He couldnt deliver all of them, especially my paycheck." Same thing with Mayweather. Let me ask, did you want to see him fight Marquez or Margarito? Marquez or Williams? As a fight fan, I wanted Williams or Margarito. When both were coming off big wins, he retired. He came back conveniently when the air was clear. He came back to fight the best 135 pounder in the world at the time. Thats undeniable history. thats exactly what happened.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I love the delivery analogy. I never thought the Margarito fight would happen anyway. Margarito's a piece of shit and he was TR, and in all honesty, that fight would NOT have been a walk in the park for Floyd. NOW, I would loved to have seen him fight Williams, I think that would've kept a lot of critics silent...of course he would've had to take that fight before Paul lost to Quintana.

Again, in my opinion, he could've bypassed the Margarito fight for all I care (because of contractual issues), but that Williams fight should've happened.

QUOTE (Dolimite @ Jan 27 2013, 08:47 PM) *
So you are defining his career based on two fights that you wanted to see. I would not want to see Mayweather fight a slow ass Margarito who has no defense. A typical brawler, boring, counter shots all night. Margarito is a fucking cheater and he beat a Cotto with loaded gloves. Do you honestly think Margarito with Mayweather's defense had a shot? Bert Sugar and he may not know a damn thing about boxing, stated that his fight with Marquez would give Mayweather fits, and it was Marquez who called out Mayweather. He fought the number 2 guy what more would you want? Paul Williams is just tall with an incredible tolerance for punishment. That fight would of ended with a body shot. Again Mayweather said that he was going to retire after the Hatton fight I don't think he was afraid of either Paul or Margarito and let's be honest, both guys were not household names, so even if he did stay in the game do you honestly think he would of fought them? I don't understand how you say he doesn't fight hard competition based on two fighters! Come on.

Again Mayweather will not be fighting either, Trout, Alvarez or Martinez since Trout and Alvarez are suppose to be fighting each other and Sergio already has a fight coming up. Speaking of the red head what the hell has he done to warrant a fight with Mayweather? He hasn't fought a legit 154 fighter and yet you are barking at mayweather for his "dodging?" Really? And Trout, he did beat Cotto and now you think he deserves a fight with Mayweather. Mayweather had to go through three or four fighters just to get to Oscar and Trout beats Cotto and all of the sudden he is proven? Okay...

By the way Mayweather isn't close to being 154 he is a welter weight. So if he ask Trout or Alvarez to come down to welter weight would you call him a coward?

Man c'mon D, you usually make some good points, but you cant defend Floyd's every move. He has inconsistencies in his career/word/etc, just as every fighter does. Marquez was the #2 guy...at 135. I cant give Floyd much credit for that fight, and it actually hurts me to go back and watch it. I like how he put the spin on it and basically said that he beat the guy that beat Pacquiao.

A classic example of people holding on to Floyd's every word...before he came back and got ready to fight Marquez, people either didn't care who really won the first to Pac/JMM fights, or they were cool with the controversy. As soon as Floyd cracked his mouth open about JMM actually beating Manny twice, people immediately came out the wood work and agreed. Suddenly, guys became scoring experts and boxing gurus. Again, before Floyd said that, we hardly heard a peep about the results of the first 2 fights.

Floyd actually said that he was going to retire after the DLH fight, but then the Hatton fight was made. Let's be honest, we can't even use the whole "(insert potential opponent's name) wasn't a household name", because Floyd wasn't even that damn famous after the DLH and Hatton fights. Dude retired and people weren't really checking for him like that...well, casual fans weren't.

It was ALL about Pacquiao, after the Oscar fight. THEN Floyd came back, and people were begging for the Pacquiao fight, which made Floyd a bigger name. So a Williams fight wasn't such a bad idea in 2008, but again, Floyd retired after the Hatton fight. Even if Floyd stayed in the game, he would've been FORCED to take a challenging fight. He couldn't go on that Berto trail of facing no-hopers for big paydays, that idea died after he did those numbers with DLH.

I believe that Trout deserves a Mayweather fight, why not? I agree that Trout hasn't done much as far as opponents are concerned, but compared to Canelo's flimsy resume full of over the hill, blown up WWs and small WWs, Trout has done a country mile more, by beating Cotto. Canelo just has a name and good team, period.

It's funny how guys say that Floyd would "easily" beat Trout, Canelo, K-9, whoever...but yet, when they're cornered, they're quick to say that Floyd isn't a true 154 lber. Which one is it? Again, some of you guys run yourself into the dirt (Tasmanian style) when it comes to making excuses for Floyd.
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mgrover
post Jan 29 2013, 05:46 PM
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he isn't a 154lb but realistically whats the welterweight division got to offer him lol, the jr welterweights don't bring anything new or special and anyone in the lower classes that can maybe challenge him is Broner but hes way too far out in weight, and his head is way to far up Mayweathers ass. So he should either retire or fight somebody that seems worthy. Mayweather's biggest problem is that he wants to be held next to the All time greats, and he has the skills, but not the resume to match.
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Dolimite
post Jan 29 2013, 06:08 PM
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QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jan 29 2013, 02:50 PM) *
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I love the delivery analogy. I never thought the Margarito fight would happen anyway. Margarito's a piece of shit and he was TR, and in all honesty, that fight would NOT have been a walk in the park for Floyd. NOW, I would loved to have seen him fight Williams, I think that would've kept a lot of critics silent...of course he would've had to take that fight before Paul lost to Quintana.

Again, in my opinion, he could've bypassed the Margarito fight for all I care (because of contractual issues), but that Williams fight should've happened.


Man c'mon D, you usually make some good points, but you cant defend Floyd's every move. He has inconsistencies in his career/word/etc, just as every fighter does. Marquez was the #2 guy...at 135. I cant give Floyd much credit for that fight, and it actually hurts me to go back and watch it. I like how he put the spin on it and basically said that he beat the guy that beat Pacquiao.

A classic example of people holding on to Floyd's every word...before he came back and got ready to fight Marquez, people either didn't care who really won the first to Pac/JMM fights, or they were cool with the controversy. As soon as Floyd cracked his mouth open about JMM actually beating Manny twice, people immediately came out the wood work and agreed. Suddenly, guys became scoring experts and boxing gurus. Again, before Floyd said that, we hardly heard a peep about the results of the first 2 fights.

Floyd actually said that he was going to retire after the DLH fight, but then the Hatton fight was made. Let's be honest, we can't even use the whole "(insert potential opponent's name) wasn't a household name", because Floyd wasn't even that damn famous after the DLH and Hatton fights. Dude retired and people weren't really checking for him like that...well, casual fans weren't.

It was ALL about Pacquiao, after the Oscar fight. THEN Floyd came back, and people were begging for the Pacquiao fight, which made Floyd a bigger name. So a Williams fight wasn't such a bad idea in 2008, but again, Floyd retired after the Hatton fight. Even if Floyd stayed in the game, he would've been FORCED to take a challenging fight. He couldn't go on that Berto trail of facing no-hopers for big paydays, that idea died after he did those numbers with DLH.

I believe that Trout deserves a Mayweather fight, why not? I agree that Trout hasn't done much as far as opponents are concerned, but compared to Canelo's flimsy resume full of over the hill, blown up WWs and small WWs, Trout has done a country mile more, by beating Cotto. Canelo just has a name and good team, period.

It's funny how guys say that Floyd would "easily" beat Trout, Canelo, K-9, whoever...but yet, when they're cornered, they're quick to say that Floyd isn't a true 154 lber. Which one is it? Again, some of you guys run yourself into the dirt (Tasmanian style) when it comes to making excuses for Floyd.


Welcome back! Your lady must of had you tied down (lol), I ain't mad at that! I feel your point and I am not protecting Floyd by any means. All I am saying is when people say he should of fought Margarito and Paul Williams I don't understand why. Margs was a no name and Paul Williams was getting his name out there. As boxing fans if Floyd would have taken these two fights would we really be overjoyed or saying, why the hell is he fighting these two men? Plus Paul Williams is 154 plus fighter, Floyd can barely make 151 let alone 154. You are saying why should Floyd fight an overhyped Alvarez and not a Trout who has proven himself against a viable contender in Cotto? I agree Saul should actually fight people his own weight and size, but he is popular and sometimes popularity let's you get away with bloody murder (Ray Lewis?). I think Trout would be a hard match up but would Trout bring in the money that Mayweather wants? Now if Red Head fights Trout and loses (fingers crossed) then yes Mayweather should indeed fight Trout. K-9 is a boring fighter and I hope Smith nails him but I would say this in regards to Floyd, if he is holding that 154 belt then he should fight 154 fighters with 0 excuses. But if he holds a 147 belt then he should fight his mandatory even though I do not want to see the shit. Fair is fair. If the guy earned it then he deserves a shot.
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MaxPayne
post Jan 30 2013, 08:34 AM
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You have to look at matchups.

The only hope that a Chavez style, "stalk till they drop" type fighter has against a technician is if the latter gets tired. We've established that Mayweather has never had fitness issues. I don't see any other result than a pretty easy unanimous decision.

The Paul Williams fight is fascinating. However, I think what would have worked against Williams is that he never truly learned to use his height and reach. Watch tapes of his fights. He ends up on the inside A LOT more than you would think. I think Floyd would have made him pay for not having a solid jab. On the inside, it was no match. A lot of people think you can just keep winging punches, but when you start missing, it takes a lot out of you. You also start thinking more and punching less. Watch film and you'll see. Floyd would likely have won a decision.

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MaxPayne
post Jan 30 2013, 08:47 AM
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2 guys in this era who I would have absolutely loved to have seen in the ring against Floyd ?

Vernon Forest and Winky Wright.

Both had excellent jabs, were accurate punchers from all distances and excellent defenses.

THOSE would have clearly been difficult fights for Floyd.
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Cshel86
post Jan 30 2013, 09:43 AM
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QUOTE (Dolimite @ Jan 29 2013, 06:08 PM) *
Welcome back! Your lady must of had you tied down (lol), I ain't mad at that! I feel your point and I am not protecting Floyd by any means. All I am saying is when people say he should of fought Margarito and Paul Williams I don't understand why. Margs was a no name and Paul Williams was getting his name out there. As boxing fans if Floyd would have taken these two fights would we really be overjoyed or saying, why the hell is he fighting these two men? Plus Paul Williams is 154 plus fighter, Floyd can barely make 151 let alone 154. You are saying why should Floyd fight an overhyped Alvarez and not a Trout who has proven himself against a viable contender in Cotto? I agree Saul should actually fight people his own weight and size, but he is popular and sometimes popularity let's you get away with bloody murder (Ray Lewis?). I think Trout would be a hard match up but would Trout bring in the money that Mayweather wants? Now if Red Head fights Trout and loses (fingers crossed) then yes Mayweather should indeed fight Trout. K-9 is a boring fighter and I hope Smith nails him but I would say this in regards to Floyd, if he is holding that 154 belt then he should fight 154 fighters with 0 excuses. But if he holds a 147 belt then he should fight his mandatory even though I do not want to see the shit. Fair is fair. If the guy earned it then he deserves a shot.

Lol, I was VERY busy.

As for him fighting Williams or Margarito...why not fight them? I can totally understand the Margarito and post-Top Rank contract with Floyd, understood. I seriously think that Paul Williams should've happened in 2008 when he was still a WW. I agree that Williams wasn't a big name fighter, but to an extent, Floyd wasn't either. If anything, he was still new to it.

If you think about it, not everyone that fought Oscar, became a superstar/cash cow after they beat him. For instance, Shane beat Oscar twice, and ended up taking $300k paydays on PPV against guys like Winky Wright. Again, not everybody becomes a superstar/cash cow, just because they fought one.

Floyd wasn't a De La Hoya-type star, who could fight just about anybody, and do some decent numbers, so a Williams fight in 2008, wouldn't have been so much of a stretch for him. If anything, that fight would've challenged him, and kept doubt out of most fans' mind. Instead, he retired, JUST to came back and fight the LW champion of the world.

And yes, popularity can help you get away with whatever you want in the sport. I'm not sure if Trout brings in the money that Floyd wants, but if we're talking about who deserves the fight more, we can pick Trout any day out of the week. At least he and Floyd have common opponent that had something left in the tank (Cotto). I cant even speak Mosley being a common opponent, because he was just there for a payday.

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