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> PPV: Chavez vs. Martinez@9PM(ET)/6PM(PT) SPOILERS (Topics Merged), (Rematch?)
checkleft
post Sep 16 2012, 08:21 PM
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QUOTE (flazi @ Sep 16 2012, 09:05 PM) *
bailarina? hahaha you can't hit someone with that many punches if you dancing around. he didn't dance or run. all he did was jab jab jab jab left jab left move pivot wash rinse repeat lol

Haha
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Plah
post Sep 16 2012, 10:20 PM
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QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Sep 16 2012, 03:31 PM) *
I hate to say this (well not really, lol), but it sounds like you're making excuses for Martinez. I dont get it. He schooled the guy for about 9 or 10 rounds, but almost let it go down the drain. Problem was, he got careless, the pressure was catching up to him, and Im sure he felt the body shots (like any normal fighter would).

Not really, I just dont understand why people are clamoring for a rematch when the guy lost 11 of 12. Was just explaining how the KD happened. Pride, carelessness, and that excessive movement. About the gameplan, he only fights that way, doesnt train that hard, and he doesnt have a trainer that is known for making any adjustments when things get ugly.
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daprofessor
post Sep 16 2012, 11:04 PM
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i will give sergio props for not circling the whole fight. he actually backed chavez up a few times and stood in the pocket. chavez looked befuddled. i don't think he expected that. i also think he totally felt and respected martinez' power from the very beginning. i think chavez started off with the right game plan in mind...he was throwing those hooks to the body and coming back to the head, but he was loading up way too much. martinez' definitely made adjustments and the experience advantage showed immediately. thing is...it didn't deter chavez. he seemed to be patient...and trying...but lack the necessary adjustments kept him from taking over. seems to me...the answer for any problem for guys like chavez is 'harder...or more...' and this fight really reminded me of chavez/taylor or chavez/whitaker. u knew he'd be trying to find a way to win all the way to until the end...but in the meantime...he was being out boxed and out skilled. but like i said before...skill doesn't always win out...and in typical "chavez" fashion...it went all the way down to the wire. he landed that shot in the 12th and i wasn't surprised because he really didn't over exert himself the whole fight. he was just biding his time...and his pressure was forcing martinez to fight at a very high pace that he is definitely not accustomed to. martinez looked to take his break in the mid rounds...chavez turned it up and martinez answered. i knew chavez chances would lie late in the fight. the slip/tangle up bought martinez time to survive. chavez got a little too eager and crowded himself. i'm sure it was a learning experience and he'll become better as a result.

i want to see the rematch because i don't believe there is a bigger fight out there for either guy. i also believe that chavez has way more room for improvement, whereas martinez pretty much fought the fight of his life. martinez was able to land some great shots...but all they did was back chavez up. when chavez finally let his hands go...his shots had martinez on the mat ready to go. i think chavez has proven he belongs. u don't get to this level and drop a guy like martinez as hard as he did without having something. chavez is the real deal.
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checkleft
post Sep 16 2012, 11:24 PM
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QUOTE (daprofessor @ Sep 16 2012, 11:04 PM) *
i will give sergio props for not circling the whole fight. he actually backed chavez up a few times and stood in the pocket. chavez looked befuddled. i don't think he expected that. i also think he totally felt and respected martinez' power from the very beginning. i think chavez started off with the right game plan in mind...he was throwing those hooks to the body and coming back to the head, but he was loading up way too much. martinez' definitely made adjustments and the experience advantage showed immediately. thing is...it didn't deter chavez. he seemed to be patient...and trying...but lack the necessary adjustments kept him from taking over. seems to me...the answer for any problem for guys like chavez is 'harder...or more...' and this fight really reminded me of chavez/taylor or chavez/whitaker. u knew he'd be trying to find a way to win all the way to until the end...but in the meantime...he was being out boxed and out skilled. but like i said before...skill doesn't always win out...and in typical "chavez" fashion...it went all the way down to the wire. he landed that shot in the 12th and i wasn't surprised because he really didn't over exert himself the whole fight. he was just biding his time...and his pressure was forcing martinez to fight at a very high pace that he is definitely not accustomed to. martinez looked to take his break in the mid rounds...chavez turned it up and martinez answered. i knew chavez chances would lie late in the fight. the slip/tangle up bought martinez time to survive. chavez got a little too eager and crowded himself. i'm sure it was a learning experience and he'll become better as a result.

i want to see the rematch because i don't believe there is a bigger fight out there for either guy. i also believe that chavez has way more room for improvement, whereas martinez pretty much fought the fight of his life. martinez was able to land some great shots...but all they did was back chavez up. when chavez finally let his hands go...his shots had martinez on the mat ready to go. i think chavez has proven he belongs. u don't get to this level and drop a guy like martinez as hard as he did without having something. chavez is the real deal.

Idk about not having anyone else to fight, that may only apply to Martinez. Chavez clearly needs to move up in weight. He was probably over 185-190. His definition was gone he was slower and its no surprise he REFUSED to weigh in on the hbo scales before the fight. Martinez will have trouble finding another fight but chavez has a whole two weight classes of opponents to choose from (super middle and light heavy). But I think if Martinez made chavez feel his power and backed him up a few times a guy that is the same size probably knocks him out. But he has plenty if options, I think he and frotch would be a great all action fight.
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MaxPayne
post Sep 16 2012, 11:26 PM
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I don't get the whole "dancing and running" theory. Sergio threw 900 motherfucking punches. More importantly, JCC was doing his best Arturo Gatti post fight face impersonation with the ridiculous swelling, cuts and discolorations.

I don't support a rematch right now because Chavez has no chance against Sergio unless he can develop a jab-right hand combo that is reliable. The whole bulling someone to the ropes and start winging hooks will only work on stationary fighters.

About Pound for Pound lists, nothing really changes. I have Sergio behind Floyd and Andre Ward, but in a 3 way tie with Pacquiao and Marquez.
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daprofessor
post Sep 17 2012, 12:00 AM
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QUOTE (checkleft @ Sep 16 2012, 11:24 PM) *
Idk about not having anyone else to fight, that may only apply to Martinez. Chavez clearly needs to move up in weight. He was probably over 185-190. His definition was gone he was slower and its no surprise he REFUSED to weigh in on the hbo scales before the fight. Martinez will have trouble finding another fight but chavez has a whole two weight classes of opponents to choose from (super middle and light heavy). But I think if Martinez made chavez feel his power and backed him up a few times a guy that is the same size probably knocks him out. But he has plenty if options, I think he and frotch would be a great all action fight.


i'd love to see chavez/froch. that would make for a great fight. i also wouldn't mind seeing him in with pavlik. that's a very doable fight as well. this is one of those rare occasions where in losing...a fighter gains more fans. chavez definitely has more options. unfortunately for martinez...he won't get a bigger pay day than what he can make with chavez. we already know he won't move up to 168. i doubt he gets a fight with floyd, canelo or cotto. there are other guys for him to fight...but the risks will outweigh the rewards. he is arguably one of the best, no doubt...unfortunately he doesn't have a real promoter.


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checkleft
post Sep 17 2012, 12:52 AM
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QUOTE (daprofessor @ Sep 17 2012, 12:00 AM) *
i'd love to see chavez/froch. that would make for a great fight. i also wouldn't mind seeing him in with pavlik. that's a very doable fight as well. this is one of those rare occasions where in losing...a fighter gains more fans. chavez definitely has more options. unfortunately for martinez...he won't get a bigger pay day than what he can make with chavez. we already know he won't move up to 168. i doubt he gets a fight with floyd, canelo or cotto. there are other guys for him to fight...but the risks will outweigh the rewards. he is arguably one of the best, no doubt...unfortunately he doesn't have a real promoter.

I definitely agree. But idk about chavez gaining fans, everybody I know that watched the fight was pretty dissatisfied he didn't let his hands go. But chavez definitely has those options, but like you said after watching Martinez punish a light heavyweight for about 11 rounds he isn't very alluring to the big names. I doubt cotto would take a fight with him and even more doubtful Canelo will and mayweather is not rushing back to fighting anytime soon. This was a lose lose for Martinez other than the pay day

This post has been edited by checkleft: Sep 17 2012, 12:58 AM
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Cshel86
post Sep 17 2012, 01:34 AM
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QUOTE (checkleft @ Sep 17 2012, 12:24 AM) *
Idk about not having anyone else to fight, that may only apply to Martinez. Chavez clearly needs to move up in weight. He was probably over 185-190. His definition was gone he was slower and its no surprise he REFUSED to weigh in on the hbo scales before the fight. Martinez will have trouble finding another fight but chavez has a whole two weight classes of opponents to choose from (super middle and light heavy). But I think if Martinez made chavez feel his power and backed him up a few times a guy that is the same size probably knocks him out. But he has plenty if options, I think he and frotch would be a great all action fight.

I will check that out, in regards to him refusing to weigh in on fight night. Last time I checked, the WBC requires fighters to do an unofficial weigh-in on fight night, so you're right. I doubt if Julio rushes to 168. He can stay at 160 for a little while longer. There are a few fighters that will allow him to get away with the bullshit that he couldn't get away with in the Sergio fight...same situation with Dawson coming down to 168 and fighting someone OTHER THAN Ward.

QUOTE (MaxPayne @ Sep 17 2012, 12:26 AM) *
I don't support a rematch right now because Chavez has no chance against Sergio unless he can develop a jab-right hand combo that is reliable. The whole bulling someone to the ropes and start winging hooks will only work on stationary fighters.

It seemed to have paid dividends for him, especially when it came to the 12th round. Im not sure how it looked from a television view, but live, those body shots and head shots had Sergio looking crazy in a few rounds.

Side note: I think Arum kept Julio honest by allowing this fight to happen. Im not even sure that he thought Julio would win this fight, but let's not forget, before the Lee fight was signed, Julio was attempting to sit out on his contract, and refusing to sign an extension that Bob was damn near forcing him to sign. Weird, but I wouldn't rule this out, as to why this fight actually took place.

I see Arum pushing this whole "Jerry Jones just requested the rematch at the Cowboys Stadium" crap...maybe its another way of keeping Julio under contract. Poor DiBella, all he seems to have is tv deals, and can do little for Sergio. This was a big fight for them, but Im not sure whats next for them.
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Cheesey1
post Sep 17 2012, 01:38 AM
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QUOTE (mrchitown @ Sep 16 2012, 08:06 PM) *
Don't be, when the rematch takes place you could pt your kids thru college with the beatdown Martinez will put on junior.

I've seen the pics of JCC jr's face and I almost feel bad for him but everybody including his father says he was bullshitting thru camp...as far as the ballerina stuff people keep saying, that actually is an old training method that trainers used to put their fighters thru, but these trolls don't understand that. They only see one way of things

"...kids through college" Nice one and I agree completely.

Re. the post 'Beatdown I' photo (the rematch will be called "Beatdown II), same here, I did feel bad for him. Unfortunately for him that's the photo that I'm using for the Weekend Round Up article that I'm writing now.

This post has been edited by Cheesey1: Sep 17 2012, 01:39 AM
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Cshel86
post Sep 17 2012, 01:43 AM
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QUOTE (Cheesey1 @ Sep 17 2012, 02:38 AM) *
Re. the post 'Beatdown I' photo (the rematch will be called "Beatdown II), same here, I did feel bad for him. Unfortunately for him that's the photo that I'm using for the Weekend Round Up article that I'm writing now.

LMAO! How dirty of you, Cheesey!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
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