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> HBO@10PM(ET)/7PM(PT): Berto vs. Guerrero-SPOILERS, No Duplicate Threads, Public Streams, or Discussion of Hatton Comeback
Cheesey1
post Nov 25 2012, 12:11 AM
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QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Nov 25 2012, 12:00 AM) *
I agree. I hate when decent matches like this are made, and some couch-potato ref is officiating the fight. I mean how much of a piece-of-shit motherfucker judge can you be, to let things go down like that in a fight? California does it again...

The ref. sucked, but the two knock downs had Berto at a disadvantage. Abandoning the jab was also a bad move.
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Franchize
post Nov 25 2012, 01:41 AM
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Not trying to be a hater but I didnt see anything in Guerrero that had me walking away any more impressed with him. Both guys fought with a lot of guts but from a skill standpoint, I still don't see anything that warrants Guerrero talking the shit he has been. I can't take away the effort he put forth though. He worked in there. I thought he was being an asshole in the post fight when Berto was talking. Bertowasnt trying to make excuses. He was imply agreeing with Max and Guerrero threw a hissy fit. He was talking cash shit as if he didnt get hit all night himself. I had the fight WAY closer. I actually had Berto winning rounds 5, 10 and 11 unlike Lederman. I think the knockdowns were the difference. Both guys have huge holes in their games though. At some point Berto has to decide whether he wants to be a guy who's known for these drag out brawsl, most recently ending in defeat... Or is he going to utilize his physical gifts and start boxing liek someone with some ring generalship and IQ. I think it starts with changing trainers. I've seen his trainer drop the ball in too many of his fights. He kept telling him to squat and not lean all night. Maybe it was something they worked on that they thought would pay dividends but there were far more pressing opportunities and things to correct in that fight.

All in all, damn the fight and it's participants. I've seen enough brawls. I was hoping for a real boxing match. Either way, decent fight to watch. Both guys left it in the ring. The bigger matter to me was the horrendous officiating. Like seriously...WTF was that? Had to be one of the worst I've seen in a while. Guerrero held and hit all night. He was jamming his head into Bertos eye. Then, when he clearly made an effort to close the real estate and grapple, the ref takes away Berto's only defense by erroneously calling hit's behind the head and blaming him for holding. But the most egregious thing was the 15 punch combo he allowed Guerrero after the final bell. One or two in the heat of the moment...ok. But Berto had literally stopped fighting and Robert Guerrero was just tee-ing off for about 10 seconds str8.

Guerrero won fair and square...but Berto had every right to call the ref on his shit. That's not just itpicking. Guerrero's tactics were huge weapons in the fight. When their hands were free during the middle and end of the fight, Berto was lacing him with shots.
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Franchize
post Nov 25 2012, 01:49 AM
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LMAO at Broner saying "you can put me butt naked inthe jungle and some boxing gloves and I'm gonna come out with some Gators and a Mink lmaoooo had to catch himself lolI think Broner's antics are a bit staged at times but that one was clever for sure lol
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mitukczuk
post Nov 25 2012, 06:57 AM
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Damn, it seems like I missed out on a LOT ! Gotta wait till the fights are on youtube.
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Cheesey1
post Nov 25 2012, 09:38 AM
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QUOTE (Franchize @ Nov 25 2012, 01:41 AM) *
Not trying to be a hater but I didnt see anything in Guerrero that had me walking away any more impressed with him. Both guys fought with a lot of guts but from a skill standpoint, I still don't see anything that warrants Guerrero talking the shit he has been. I can't take away the effort he put forth though. He worked in there. I thought he was being an asshole in the post fight when Berto was talking. Bertowasnt trying to make excuses. He was imply agreeing with Max and Guerrero threw a hissy fit. He was talking cash shit as if he didnt get hit all night himself. I had the fight WAY closer. I actually had Berto winning rounds 5, 10 and 11 unlike Lederman. I think the knockdowns were the difference. Both guys have huge holes in their games though. At some point Berto has to decide whether he wants to be a guy who's known for these drag out brawsl, most recently ending in defeat... Or is he going to utilize his physical gifts and start boxing liek someone with some ring generalship and IQ. I think it starts with changing trainers. I've seen his trainer drop the ball in too many of his fights. He kept telling him to squat and not lean all night. Maybe it was something they worked on that they thought would pay dividends but there were far more pressing opportunities and things to correct in that fight.

All in all, damn the fight and it's participants. I've seen enough brawls. I was hoping for a real boxing match. Either way, decent fight to watch. Both guys left it in the ring. The bigger matter to me was the horrendous officiating. Like seriously...WTF was that? Had to be one of the worst I've seen in a while. Guerrero held and hit all night. He was jamming his head into Bertos eye. Then, when he clearly made an effort to close the real estate and grapple, the ref takes away Berto's only defense by erroneously calling hit's behind the head and blaming him for holding. But the most egregious thing was the 15 punch combo he allowed Guerrero after the final bell. One or two in the heat of the moment...ok. But Berto had literally stopped fighting and Robert Guerrero was just tee-ing off for about 10 seconds str8.

Guerrero won fair and square...but Berto had every right to call the ref on his shit. That's not just itpicking. Guerrero's tactics were huge weapons in the fight. When their hands were free during the middle and end of the fight, Berto was lacing him with shots.

Yeah, a new trainer might (should) be the move for Andre. As would keeping his father and brother out of his corner.

This post has been edited by Cheesey1: Nov 25 2012, 09:39 AM
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Jovi
post Nov 25 2012, 11:26 AM
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I couldn't even be happy for Guerrero winning, he's too much of a scrub. That blatant cheating is something i cant fuck with. that referee was reminding me of "Dont be a menace" with how much he was sweating berto for what he was doing when Guerrero was the one doing the cheap shit.

Berto with both eyes swollen, 2 BS knockdowns, everything is the ring was against him. He could've gave up or even just been like"Fuck that" and just throw some lowblows or elbows on purpose, I was thinking i wouldve in the situation he was in. We could see into his soul, i seen all that heart he had, i was honestly surprised to see him keep standing by the 12th round. all i could gain was more respect for him.

Ortiz gets more respect from me for his Win than guerrero does against berto.

Berto needs much more work on the Shoulder roll defense. more jabs to the body with the over hand or straight right wouldve done the job. He needs to do more body shots. He's got too much power for someone to punk him around like that. Alot of talent that needs more skills. Love that right uppercut. he looks he's about to hit someone's head off.

This post has been edited by Jovi: Nov 25 2012, 01:00 PM
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mitukczuk
post Nov 25 2012, 11:52 AM
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I have just started watching the fight...1st round impressions - Guerrero dirty as fuck, ref sucks major balls, Berto using the shoulder roll ? What the....
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BoxingFan86
post Nov 25 2012, 01:06 PM
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How were the 2 knockdowns not illegal? I mean, both times Guererro intentionally held the back of Berto's head while he punched him with his other hand, but Berto was the one bein' warned. Speakin' of the ref, he was horrible. Don't even get me started on the end of the 12th round. In Guererro's defense, I don't think he heard the bell. Oh, yeah...Bwahahaha at the Martin Payne comment.
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Gambit808
post Nov 25 2012, 01:31 PM
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Ya know after this FOTY canidate, just like Ortiz, Guerrero may get a shot at Mayweather.
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Cshel86
post Nov 25 2012, 02:19 PM
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I have yet to go back and watch the fight (while sober), so I'll save my reassessment and harp on what happened last night (what a loser I am). Nothing about Guerrero made me like him any more than before, after his performance last night. He commenced to smothering and was a complete jerkoff in the post-fight interview.

How can he cut Berto off, and he was allowed to speak during his interview? After being an utter piece of shit, he grabs the mic and goes into an obligatory, bullshit, religious-related, clean-up speech about his Lord & Savior. Dude, you were being an asshole like .02 seconds ago....kill that noise.

How many weight classes has Guerrero moved up? He's come from 122-147 with NO issues? He was getting hit flush by a full-fledged WW, and...nothing? Hmm...I'll be the first asshole to point the PED finger and make an assumption...just for the sake of being an asshole.

As someone mentioned earlier, Berto is too big to be getting punked around the ring like that. It's crazy how he just can't seem to keep the fight in the center of the ring, where Guerrero tried his hardest to avoid. Dude, work on your legs.

I just couldn't get with Guerrero's smothering, along with him grabbing Berto and punching him at the same time. I usually gripe about Berto clinching too much, but what else could he have done last night? He fought a dirty but determined Guerrero and the couch-potato ref who was on autopilot all night.

I kinda felt bad for Berto, but he needed a fight like that last night...to shake off the inactivity and prove that he's still a warrior. I'm not convinced that he's an elite fighter, but he can still hang with B-level fighters. He has A LOT of work to do, and he can start by getting a new trainer, or at least an assistant trainer, and get rid of that loud ass dad of his. I heard that Haitian mumbo jumbo all freakin' night...how annoying.

Anyhow, great fight, for what it was worth. I still think Guerrero gets fleeced by other WWs like Lopez, Ortiz (yeah...Ortiz), and Maidana (who has discovered the jab after all these years, lol).

PSA: Don't take this the wrong way, but after reading comments sections and other forums since the fight, I've seen waaay too many johnny-come-lately fans who are crowing Guerrero as their next Hispanic Hero because he beat Berto. C'mon man, some of those mofos were crying how tired they were of Guerrero months ago. He's NOT gonna get a Floyd fight, and if he does, I'll be surprised. Ortiz got the Floyd fight because he SELLS TICKETS, was built as the next Oscar, and he was the first to impressively beat Berto. Guerrero still has some heavy lifting to do, so he may wanna set his fights on Maidana or Lopez in the meantime.

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