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> Ali Bashir Spits the Real...., Spits the real shit about these fighters and their trainers...
daprofessor
post Nov 28 2012, 02:53 PM
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QUOTE (BigFightFan @ Nov 28 2012, 03:13 PM) *
What about berto's chin and balance? The KD's didn't come from power punches, he needs a lot of work. At what stage is it too late for a fighter to change old habits?


the thing is...u can't fix his chin...but u can teach him to avoid being hit on the chin. his balance...his defense....his tension...those are all things that can be corrected with the proper focus and technique. it takes patience, intelligence...and the will to make those changes. the knockdowns came because he was too straight up and did nothing to stop guerrero from attacking. very simple solutions that his trainer doesn't have the capability of teaching. i think ali bashir hit the nail on the head with his assessment.
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daprofessor
post Nov 28 2012, 02:55 PM
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QUOTE (sduck @ Nov 28 2012, 03:44 PM) *
I was mainly making my statement on the subject of switching trainers. Trainers can make a merit of difference, but most of any potential is based on the fighter. That shouldn't even be doubtful, the fact that most trainers have different fighters who are all of different potential pretty much confirms this.


i won't argue that....but there are certain trainers who can get more out of a fighter than others.
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checkleft
post Nov 28 2012, 03:05 PM
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QUOTE (daprofessor @ Nov 28 2012, 02:03 PM) *
don't give up just yet. there are two ex-football players on the horizon who i believe will be making serious noise in the future. dominic brazealle and gerald washington. dominic was a quarterback for colorado and gerald played for usc. these guys are serious students of the game and have been developing well imo. give them a couple of years...and they both will be threats. they're both 6'5-6'6 and about 230-250. very athletic boxers.

Football players just don't fit the boxing role skill-wise. Football is more about raw athletic ability and strength, boxing is a small percentage of thay and a lot of skill and brains. That's why people have often said basketball players make the best boxers. Basketball players have the coordination and a lot of times the intelligence to be fit for the ring. Manny Floyd and mosley supposedly are great basketball players, and a lot of NBA players train in boxing because it helps them with their coordination (Ron artest, David west).
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sduck
post Nov 28 2012, 03:11 PM
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QUOTE (daprofessor @ Nov 28 2012, 02:55 PM) *
i won't argue that....but there are certain trainers who can get more out of a fighter than others.

Very true... There could be a trainer out there that can increase the potential of Berto and Mitchell like no other trainer could. Hell, maybe with the right trainer and the right discipline, Mitchell could learn some skills good enough to protect that chin and cast him above the Klitschkos. Skill-wise both Berto and Mitchell are horrid. I'm not sure about the past experience for those two, but most fighters have amateur, pre-professional, and post-professional experience, hell many even pre-amateur. However, if your game isn't solid by professional, than most-likely it won't get much (or any) better.

This post has been edited by sduck: Nov 28 2012, 03:12 PM
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Gambit808
post Nov 28 2012, 06:34 PM
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Definitely a good read!

How is it that, the camera can be in the corner and you hear Berto's Brother (loud and clear), the cutman, you hear the trainer & STILL don't have 2 listen close to hear a loud Hatian accent in the middle of all of that... that be Berto's father by the way.

Don't know how much or if this fight took much outta Berto, but I think he can still be a force with the right people in his corner. Bashir made it even more clear.

This post has been edited by Gambit808: Nov 28 2012, 06:36 PM
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Cshel86
post Nov 28 2012, 06:44 PM
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QUOTE (Gambit808 @ Nov 28 2012, 06:34 PM) *
Definitely a good read!

How is it that, the camera can be in the corner and you hear Berto's Brother (loud and clear), the cutman, you hear the trainer & STILL don't have 2 listen close to hear a loud Hatian accent in the middle of all of that... that be Berto's father by the way.

Don't know how much or if this fight took much outta Berto, but I think he can still be a force with the right people in his corner. Bashir made it even more clear.

Tell me about it! I hear that Haitian mumbo jumbo from miles away...all through the fight. Tony Morgan gets no respect in the corner, and that's clear as day. Oddly enough, his brother wasn't doing all of that talking (with that white shit around his mouth) this time around...or do I need to go back and watch again? Lol

I'm hoping that this fight didn't take much out him, but I'm almost afraid to admit that I think the damage was done. Lord willing, he doesn't have any orbital injuries and that was just common swelling. If he doesn't have any long-term injuries, then he should be okay....AFTER he hires a new corner.

He still has the Ortiz rematch, an Alexander fight, Bradley (possibly, due to Berto's new alliance with GBP), Maidana (who will fight for chump change), and a couple of others. He seriously needs to go back and fight Guerrero again, because as Bashir said, Berto made it waaay too easy for Guerrero to take that fight away from him.
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daprofessor
post Nov 28 2012, 08:14 PM
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QUOTE (checkleft @ Nov 28 2012, 04:05 PM) *
Football players just don't fit the boxing role skill-wise. Football is more about raw athletic ability and strength, boxing is a small percentage of thay and a lot of skill and brains. That's why people have often said basketball players make the best boxers. Basketball players have the coordination and a lot of times the intelligence to be fit for the ring. Manny Floyd and mosley supposedly are great basketball players, and a lot of NBA players train in boxing because it helps them with their coordination (Ron artest, David west).


i've trained professional basketball players, football players and a baseball player. it depends on the individual. i can't agree with what you're saying.
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daprofessor
post Nov 28 2012, 08:20 PM
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QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Nov 28 2012, 07:44 PM) *
Tell me about it! I hear that Haitian mumbo jumbo from miles away...all through the fight. Tony Morgan gets no respect in the corner, and that's clear as day. Oddly enough, his brother wasn't doing all of that talking (with that white shit around his mouth) this time around...or do I need to go back and watch again? Lol

I'm hoping that this fight didn't take much out him, but I'm almost afraid to admit that I think the damage was done. Lord willing, he doesn't have any orbital injuries and that was just common swelling. If he doesn't have any long-term injuries, then he should be okay....AFTER he hires a new corner.

He still has the Ortiz rematch, an Alexander fight, Bradley (possibly, due to Berto's new alliance with GBP), Maidana (who will fight for chump change), and a couple of others. He seriously needs to go back and fight Guerrero again, because as Bashir said, Berto made it waaay too easy for Guerrero to take that fight away from him.


i hate to be the one to break it to u...but berto is not coming back from this. his already fragile ego took a big shot in the ortiz bout...now this....more than physical damage...i see psychological damage that can't/won't be undone. that was a sustained beating over several rounds...they don't come back from those. that's not to say he can't make money...or be a gate keeper. i don't believe he'll ever be at the level he was prior to the ortiz fight...even with an amazing corner. i'd love to see him prove me wrong though. he seems like a really good dude.
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Cheesey1
post Nov 28 2012, 08:23 PM
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I agree with the argument that a skilled trainer, in the camp of a boxer who is willing to listen and has the physical ability, can make a material difference. If Berto gets with the program, he can salvage things.
As poor as his strategy was, if he hadn't suffered the two early knockdowns, who knows what would've happened.

Will he be a top five welterweight? Maybe not, but IMO he can still compete at the that level, if he sorts things out. His father and brother need to stop thinking it's about them.

This post has been edited by Cheesey1: Nov 28 2012, 08:27 PM
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Cshel86
post Nov 28 2012, 08:54 PM
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QUOTE (daprofessor @ Nov 28 2012, 08:20 PM) *
i hate to be the one to break it to u...but berto is not coming back from this. his already fragile ego took a big shot in the ortiz bout...now this....more than physical damage...i see psychological damage that can't/won't be undone. that was a sustained beating over several rounds...they don't come back from those. that's not to say he can't make money...or be a gate keeper. i don't believe he'll ever be at the level he was prior to the ortiz fight...even with an amazing corner. i'd love to see him prove me wrong though. he seems like a really good dude.

You don't believe that he beat himself, in a few ways?

I always knew that Berto would be a gate keeper in the sport, and yes, he still has some money fights left in him, if he's able to keep himself composed in his upcoming. Those beatings over several rounds DO put miles on a fighter....ask Hatton about the Floyd fight.
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