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> Ward vs Chavez (Topics Merged), Any Interest? At 168?
daprofessor
post Aug 22 2012, 06:41 PM
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QUOTE (mrchitown @ Aug 22 2012, 06:30 PM) *
I see him turning into his old man too and that's the problem. Ward/Dirrell, I look at them as opponents as far as when Chavez sr fought Meldrick and Sweet pea. Chavez sr wasn't going to win that fight if Steele dumb ass hadn't of stopped it. taylor was pretty much in control waaay more then half the fight. And Sweet Pea gave his ass a lesson in the sweet science and he got that horrible "draw" against him. He could pressure him and the body work could be a factor but I still stick to his weight advantage being his biggest asset in his career. His father and him are the same fighters, you put'em in front of an athlete and they toast.

He's a born fighter but people like Ward and Dirrell are naturally gifted athletes and those types 99 out of 100 win. Their also hard to beat. AA started to touch Dirrell late but by then I didn't think it was enough, unless he could've ko'd Andre. And I am of the opinion that Dirrell beat Froch. I don't rate Chavez jr even close to their level of fighter and Dirrell and Ward did had much success against them. Chavez jr has minimal defense. i see it tough if he suddenly jumps leaps in bounds in this area but if not then I see trouble


i remember that chavez sr/taylor fight like it was yesterday. meldrick was putting it on chavez early...but he did nothing to slow him down. i saw chavez putting money in the bank with those body shots and i knew then, watching it unfold, it was going to go down to the wire. as for steele stopping that bout...he's not the time keeper and in the heat of it all he gave taylor 2 chances to step forward and taylor was out of it. the stoppage will always be viewed as controversial but i get both sides of the argument.

as for the whitaker fight....that was a brilliant performance by pernell. i think he should have put his stamp on it by going for the ko in the last couple of rounds because he didn't give chavez anything in that bout and he had way more left imo. the draw was a disgrace.

with jr/dirrell...i don't think dirrell can outbox jr for a whole 12 rounds. while abraham and froch have more accomplishments...i think they aren't as aggressive and don't throw to the body like chavez nor do they have the same chin. that would be the difference. if abraham was able to catch up with dirrell mid rounds i'm quite certain chavez can do the same. dirrell has plenty of defensive holes and he'd waste a lot of energy trying to stay away from chavez. pressure busts pipes...and in this instance...i think chavez gets him.

ward is a different story. he has every tool and trick in the book. he has a beautiful jab...he'll stand in the pocket...he can box....he'll force chavez back every now and then....and he has respectable punching power. i can see him going through his catalog on jr and shutting him out.

chavez jr and sr may not be athletes...but they are tough durable guys who keep coming. it's reminiscent of ali/frazier. frazier wasn't really athletic or gifted either. he was tough and strong and kept coming. most times the gifted athlete should win....but every once in a while the tough durable guy finds a way. i can go down a long list of durable tough guys that beat gifted athletes....lamotta/robinson, basilio/robinson etc..etc..but you're right...most times the athlete/boxer wins.

i had dirrell beating froch 8-4. i could see jr stopping froch.
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checkleft
post Aug 22 2012, 06:52 PM
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Idk how we can be sure about chavez chin when he hasn't really fought any good punchers and he's about 20 pounds heavier then most of his opponents. The only real puncher he's fought is Rubio and Rubio busted him up quite a bit and didn't really land flush.
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daprofessor
post Aug 22 2012, 06:57 PM
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QUOTE (checkleft @ Aug 22 2012, 07:52 PM) *
Idk how we can be sure about chavez chin when he hasn't really fought any good punchers and he's about 20 pounds heavier then most of his opponents. The only real puncher he's fought is Rubio and Rubio busted him up quite a bit and didn't really land flush.


i didn't see rubio back him up once. he did swell his eye some though. i have to go back and watch that one.

something i've noticed about the best fighters...or the ones that can take shots...they all have big ass heads! almost like bobble doll heads. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
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sduck
post Aug 23 2012, 06:52 AM
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Ward would shut him down easy
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duwdu
post Aug 23 2012, 09:28 AM
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QUOTE (mrchitown @ Aug 22 2012, 06:30 PM) *
I see him turning into his old man too and that's the problem. Ward/Dirrell, I look at them as opponents as far as when Chavez sr fought Meldrick and Sweet pea. Chavez sr wasn't going to win that fight if Steele dumb ass hadn't of stopped it. taylor was pretty much in control waaay more then half the fight. And Sweet Pea gave his ass a lesson in the sweet science and he got that horrible "draw" against him. He could pressure him and the body work could be a factor but I still stick to his weight advantage being his biggest asset in his career. His father and him are the same fighters, you put'em in front of an athlete and they toast.

He's a born fighter but people like Ward and Dirrell are naturally gifted athletes and those types 99 out of 100 win. Their also hard to beat. AA started to touch Dirrell late but by then I didn't think it was enough, unless he could've ko'd Andre. And I am of the opinion that Dirrell beat Froch. I don't rate Chavez jr even close to their level of fighter and Dirrell and Ward did had much success against them. Chavez jr has minimal defense. i see it tough if he suddenly jumps leaps in bounds in this area but if not then I see trouble


This. Could not have stated it any better myself.

The most eloquent in favor of Jr. in this thread this far, is prof; my problem though (with regards to Chavez vs Martinez in particular,) is that prof is repeatedly saying what he believes Jr. will put on Sergio, while acknowledging very little of what Sergio can - and may well - do. If, for one, Sergio lands on Jr. the class of punch that KO'd Williams completely cold, Jr. would not be KO'd, but he would not just eat such a punch either. Believe me, in addition to Sergio being equally tough, he will be a lot smarter in that ring than some care to give him credit for. I think Sergio will win this one, despite the recent, big improvements displayed by Jr.

P34c3

This post has been edited by duwdu: Aug 23 2012, 09:33 AM
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mrchitown
post Aug 23 2012, 08:22 PM
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QUOTE (daprofessor @ Aug 22 2012, 06:41 PM) *
i remember that chavez sr/taylor fight like it was yesterday. meldrick was putting it on chavez early...but he did nothing to slow him down. i saw chavez putting money in the bank with those body shots and i knew then, watching it unfold, it was going to go down to the wire. as for steele stopping that bout...he's not the time keeper and in the heat of it all he gave taylor 2 chances to step forward and taylor was out of it. the stoppage will always be viewed as controversial but i get both sides of the argument.

as for the whitaker fight....that was a brilliant performance by pernell. i think he should have put his stamp on it by going for the ko in the last couple of rounds because he didn't give chavez anything in that bout and he had way more left imo. the draw was a disgrace.

with jr/dirrell...i don't think dirrell can outbox jr for a whole 12 rounds. while abraham and froch have more accomplishments...i think they aren't as aggressive and don't throw to the body like chavez nor do they have the same chin. that would be the difference. if abraham was able to catch up with dirrell mid rounds i'm quite certain chavez can do the same. dirrell has plenty of defensive holes and he'd waste a lot of energy trying to stay away from chavez. pressure busts pipes...and in this instance...i think chavez gets him.

ward is a different story. he has every tool and trick in the book. he has a beautiful jab...he'll stand in the pocket...he can box....he'll force chavez back every now and then....and he has respectable punching power. i can see him going through his catalog on jr and shutting him out.

chavez jr and sr may not be athletes...but they are tough durable guys who keep coming. it's reminiscent of ali/frazier. frazier wasn't really athletic or gifted either. he was tough and strong and kept coming. most times the gifted athlete should win....but every once in a while the tough durable guy finds a way. i can go down a long list of durable tough guys that beat gifted athletes....lamotta/robinson, basilio/robinson etc..etc..but you're right...most times the athlete/boxer wins.

i had dirrell beating froch 8-4. i could see jr stopping froch.


I agree with most of what you said, especially about the durable guys. It is some very intriguing matchups to be made for JCC jr when he steps into the SMW division. I think we will learn a lot about who he REALLY IS as a fighter when he steps up
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mrchitown
post Aug 23 2012, 08:25 PM
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QUOTE (duwdu @ Aug 23 2012, 09:28 AM) *
This. Could not have stated it any better myself.

The most eloquent in favor of Jr. in this thread this far, is prof; my problem though (with regards to Chavez vs Martinez in particular,) is that prof is repeatedly saying what he believes Jr. will put on Sergio, while acknowledging very little of what Sergio can - and may well - do. If, for one, Sergio lands on Jr. the class of punch that KO'd Williams completely cold, Jr. would not be KO'd, but he would not just eat such a punch either. Believe me, in addition to Sergio being equally tough, he will be a lot smarter in that ring than some care to give him credit for. I think Sergio will win this one, despite the recent, big improvements displayed by Jr.

P34c3


I've been back and forth with it lately. At first I was favoring Martinez to beat him, now I don't know which way to lean. I'll have to make a definitive pick the closer it gets to fight night lol
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daprofessor
post Aug 24 2012, 01:53 PM
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QUOTE (mrchitown @ Aug 23 2012, 09:22 PM) *
I agree with most of what you said, especially about the durable guys. It is some very intriguing matchups to be made for JCC jr when he steps into the SMW division. I think we will learn a lot about who he REALLY IS as a fighter when he steps up


i think we'll learn who he really is in the martinez fight.
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BoxingEinstein
post Aug 24 2012, 02:00 PM
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Ward easily puts on a clinic on Chavez Jr. I do see some scary moments for Ward but Ward is a better inside fighter than Chavez Jr. The only way Chavez wins this if he attacks the body from the first second of the bell to the 12th round at a more hellacious pace than he already does. Ward is too fast, skilled, experienced, and his boxing IQ is high. Ward would fight Chavez Jr like how he fought Kessler and Bika. Ward by UD
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mrchitown
post Aug 24 2012, 05:38 PM
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QUOTE (daprofessor @ Aug 24 2012, 01:53 PM) *
i think we'll learn who he really is in the martinez fight.


Really? Until I see him in with somebody who has skills and where his blow up doll weight isn't a factor, then I can't heap too much praise on him. Even if he beat Martinez, if he comes in 180 as usual on fight night, I just can't respect the W
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