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> GGG and JCC jr., predictions?
Cshel86
post Jan 9 2014, 09:49 AM
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"The Meanest Nice Guy"


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QUOTE (ryustuh @ Jan 8 2014, 03:08 PM) *
i agree sparring and fighting aren't nearly compatible so i'll give you that. and for the sparring rumors - i'm going by interviews with abel sanchez and youtube clips showing GGG sparring much bigger opponents (can't say that they're HWs). so i'll give you that as well - maybe abel's just doing his part to hype up GGG fair enough.

you mention the will to win and how it has a huge impact in a real fight. has jcc shown that will as of late? sure he caught serg in the last round and got amped, but the first 11 rounds he was a lazy ineffective bum. and i hardly saw any will in his fight against a lesser opponent in vera. i mostly saw a gassed, fatigued, and out of shape JCC who was trying to last through the rounds.

i'm not saying ggg wouldn't work cotto. i agree with you i'm sure he would too. i'm saying better BOXERS like cotto, serg, and andre ward would give gennady more problems than someone who would just go in and try to impose their size and will against him.

Honestly, it's hard to even take a trainer's word nowadays. I remember the rumors about Broner getting dropped by Errol Spence, but that got "squashed" real quick. I remember hearing about Miranda cleaning Dawson's clock during sparring for the Ward fight...hmm...everybody was quick to yell "rumor", but I knew for a FACT that he got scraped. With that in mind, if trainers will cover up stuff like this, then they'll surely hype up some stuff to make their fighter look good...as you just mentioned.

Has Chavez shown the will to win lately? In the Sergio fight, yes...though he may have tried a bit too late...but when he tried...well, we all know what ALMOST happened there. Has he shown the will to win in his other fights? Nope. The bigger question is, has he even had to show the will to win??? Against Rubio? Lee? Manfredo? Vera?

He's been the bully in all of his fights, and his biggest issue has been, working against himself (with making weight and dedicating himself to the sport), and trying to prove to the world that he isn't a waste of Sr's sperm...but having to show the will to win...absolutely not (other than the Sergio fight). Sergio's biggest mistake was working against HIMSELF with all of that movement, against a guy who he knew had a strong chance of taking his punches and outlasting him.

Cotto is a pretty good boxer, but his biggest weakness against bigger and/or better guys, is trying to prove his toughness...as if we don't know how tough he is anyway. Guys like Sergio and Ward, will make it as easy of a night as possible, though I'd raise my hand and say that Ward would be the last man standing, if it came down to a GGG fight.
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Cshel86
post Jan 9 2014, 09:54 AM
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QUOTE (HyyerBlaze @ Jan 8 2014, 04:26 PM) *
Lol yup...he sure used his head movement vs Sergio.Too bad he only moved it into Sergio's gloves lol.

His face was a mess after that fight.GGG would do more damage.He ain't as fast as Sergio but at this point in his career has more power imo.

Yes, Chavez's face was a mess after that fight, but I cant stand here and say that GGG will have the same opportunities to fight a face-forward plodder like Sergio was able to. Chavez appears to fight smarter than that, and I don't see him going back to that come forward style any time soon.

Guys can say the same about Maidana, but as soon as he started boxing, it's been that much harder to have your way with him. He actually sets his punches up and works behind his jab...so I'd be quick to say that GGG would be fighting a much different Chavez.
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Cshel86
post Jan 9 2014, 10:00 AM
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QUOTE (klonopinz @ Jan 8 2014, 05:08 PM) *
dont also forget that ggg isnt a one dimensional puncher either, and he can box if he needs to. he couldnt knockdown or really hurt gabby, so he outboxed him and wore him down. He had to do that with stevens too. If he has too, he will rack up point and take the UD. He isnt a powerful one punch KO guy, he is more of a accumulation of blows ko guy, he can ko guys, but guys who can take his punch get broken down over time, thats his ace. Hes just like thurman,"they may take it for a few rounds baby, but they cant take it for all 12 thssson"

his biggest weakness imo is his lack of handspeed, hes really slow and he is very predictable. he kept throwing that left hook to the liver over and over trying to ko stevens, and he also kept throwing the overhand right. If someone like ard or sergio was in there he would be getting countered like a mofo. nobody has been able to test him like that yet tho, so well see what hes got. i think chavez fought the wrong fight with vera, his big slow dumb ass as trying to box on the move, and he just failed horribly. He coudlnt even really hurt vera and didnt even get enough respect to keep vera off him. i think ggg would beat him up just like sergio, but wthout the 12 round drama.

LMAO at "thssson"!!!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I think Chavez fought the right type of fight against Vera...for the most part anyway. A big guy boxing and moving like that, was a sign that he isn't the same old brawler that he once was. It's still a bit too early to say, but I kinda like his boxing attempts...at least it'll extend his career a bit.

I agree that he couldn't hurt Vera, but I don't have a problem with that. He did have a long layoff and was trying something new, but the fact the couldn't stop Vera from rushing in, was a bit of a concern. Moreover, let's not forget that if all goes wrong, he'll revert back to his old style, which I believe is somewhat of a nightmare for GGG. Most big punchers LOVE for guys to walk to them...until they find out that they can't slow them down or keep them off.
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Cshel86
post Jan 9 2014, 10:39 AM
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QUOTE (mrchitown @ Jan 8 2014, 06:13 PM) *
I love GGG and love watching him fight like many do but he's not as good as people make him out to be. And he;s damn sure not as good as Abel Sanchez thinks he is. He's getting too much credit for beating guys we knew he would beat in the first place. Fans will never learn not to fall in love with a KO artist, they always let you down.

Him and Julio would be a good fight and I'm not exactly sold that GGG would win. Chavez Jr is a big dude, I ain't buying this he putting out HW's in sparring shit because it's coming from his own people. Canelo was knocking out people in camp for the Mayweatherr fight and we all see how that turned out. Golovkin will have some trouble in the future and JCC Jr will give him problems

Styles make fights and I think fighters like Ward and I'm sure I'll take heat for this but I'd pick Andre Dirrell to beat him. I've seen moments of confusion on his face in the Rosado and the Stevens fights. What happens when he's not winning the rounds as easy as he has been before and he's in with a boxer who can stand up to his punches and throw their own shots? Ward even had it right, he saying he'll fight anyone from 160-175 but that's bullshit. If he moves up to those divisions he may get sparked

I don't know who'd win between these two but my prediction in the words of Clubber Lang is "Pain"

Can't argue with this. GGG hasn't really faced a Chavez yet, not that I'm hyping Chavez up, but the guy puts me in the mind of Margarito a bit...though Margarito was a nightmare when he walked guys down. Watching the first Cotto fight still makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck...dude didn't even have room to breathe.

I've seen that confusion on GGG's face, mainly when guys were moving...well, in their case, retreating. It started to remind me of Pac/Mosley. I mean c'mon, why is it that you cant hurt a guy in survival mode with a hurt achilles? GGG took forever to get Rosaod and Stevens outta there, and surprisingly, they're corners stopped the fight while they were still on their feet.

I tell guys all the time, making "adjustments" in fights, isn't all about countering what your opponent does...it's more about minimizing a lesser (or hurt) opponent's chances of stunting your offense. I bring up the Pac/Mosley fight a lot, because guys clown Mosley for "running" and "surviving", when in all essence, it had more to do with Pac not knowing how to cut off the ring, not being able to stop a guy in survival mode, and not stopping Mosley from blocking his left hand.
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ryustuh
post Jan 9 2014, 11:08 AM
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QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jan 9 2014, 10:39 AM) *
Can't argue with this. GGG hasn't really faced a Chavez yet, not that I'm hyping Chavez up, but the guy puts me in the mind of Margarito a bit...though Margarito was a nightmare when he walked guys down. Watching the first Cotto fight still makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck...dude didn't even have room to breathe.

I've seen that confusion on GGG's face, mainly when guys were moving...well, in their case, retreating. It started to remind me of Pac/Mosley. I mean c'mon, why is it that you cant hurt a guy in survival mode with a hurt achilles? GGG took forever to get Rosaod and Stevens outta there, and surprisingly, they're corners stopped the fight while they were still on their feet.

I tell guys all the time, making "adjustments" in fights, isn't all about countering what your opponent does...it's more about minimizing a lesser (or hurt) opponent's chances of stunting your offense. I bring up the Pac/Mosley fight a lot, because guys clown Mosley for "running" and "surviving", when in all essence, it had more to do with Pac not knowing how to cut off the ring, not being able to stop a guy in survival mode, and not stopping Mosley from blocking his left hand.


maybe margacheato was able to walk his opponents down because he had the confidence behind plaster wraps and knew all it would take was a few solid punches to get his opponents rocked. most boxers with an iron chin and rock hard punches (literally) would be able to do the same. cotto made some good adjustments in the rematch, but i also didn't see the same level of damage being made from marg's end. would this have an impact on his ability to stalk his opponents down - who knows...

i agree with rosado's corner stopping the fight although it was too dramatic and a little bit funny (billy briscoe to father rosado: man i gotta stop the fight your son's gonna die! father rosado: meh...) rosado was a bloody mess, and i don't think he even had a puncher's chance (and a heavy puncher he is not) of getting back into the fight. might have still been on his feet, but this was a case of too tough for your own good.

i agree with you that steven's corner stopped the fight a bit early. even though ggg dropped him a few times, looked like he still had SOME wits about him, and was finding success when he was boxing in the center of the ring and not resting like an idiot on the ropes looking to counter. stevens also had a funny moment when he got clocked with a left hook (if i remember correctly) and dropped. the look on his face was priceless...almost like wtf just hit me. if anyone can find a pic of that i'd be grateful.

everything you said about making adjustments in the ring is spot on

This post has been edited by ryustuh: Jan 9 2014, 11:09 AM
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mrchitown
post Jan 9 2014, 12:42 PM
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QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jan 9 2014, 09:39 AM) *
Can't argue with this. GGG hasn't really faced a Chavez yet, not that I'm hyping Chavez up, but the guy puts me in the mind of Margarito a bit...though Margarito was a nightmare when he walked guys down. Watching the first Cotto fight still makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck...dude didn't even have room to breathe.

I've seen that confusion on GGG's face, mainly when guys were moving...well, in their case, retreating. It started to remind me of Pac/Mosley. I mean c'mon, why is it that you cant hurt a guy in survival mode with a hurt achilles? GGG took forever to get Rosaod and Stevens outta there, and surprisingly, they're corners stopped the fight while they were still on their feet.

I tell guys all the time, making "adjustments" in fights, isn't all about countering what your opponent does...it's more about minimizing a lesser (or hurt) opponent's chances of stunting your offense. I bring up the Pac/Mosley fight a lot, because guys clown Mosley for "running" and "surviving", when in all essence, it had more to do with Pac not knowing how to cut off the ring, not being able to stop a guy in survival mode, and not stopping Mosley from blocking his left hand.


And in those moments of confusion that's all natural good fighter really needs. Once that small piece of doubt is created the fight quite possibly will be going the other way. He is visibly frustrated when he can't get his opponents out of there in the first few rounds.

And if he wants a fight with Chavez Jr he'll more then likely have to move up and I believe at 168, this fight is 50/50. Not only did Stevens and Rosado adjust but I notice he got hit too much and he struggled some what with both when they fought back. Chavez Jr is going to fight back and neither are defensive studs. I can't imagine GGG breezing though this one. This fight can go both ways...when GGG struggled it was when the fighters stood up to his power and hit him back. He looks good in all his fights but with Rosado and Stevens he hurt them and they didn't pack it in. That's when he had issues
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Dolimite
post Jan 9 2014, 12:50 PM
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If Chavez Jr. beats GGG the hype for he and Ward to do battle will be high pitched. The weight at 168 will be a better weight for Jr. to make. If he looks good at 168 then he has lots of competition at that weight, and he can win quality fights. He isn't beating Ward, but I do like his chances at clocking GGG. Up to this point GGG has looked like a monster, but so did a lot of fighters not having great competition. I think GGG loses this fight in considerable fashion. Jr. hits like a mule and his doppy looking face can take a licking. This can be a FOTY candidate
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AZWildCat
post Jan 12 2014, 12:33 PM
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Was I the only one that seen the sparring session they had together? Ggg ain't stopping shit. It would go the full 12.
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ryustuh
post Jan 12 2014, 12:59 PM
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QUOTE (AZWildCat @ Jan 12 2014, 01:33 PM) *
Was I the only one that seen the sparring session they had together? Ggg ain't stopping shit. It would go the full 12.


as cshel alluded to earlier, sparring isn't a real fight. i haven't seen the session you're referring to myself, but headgear, 16 oz gloves, and state of mind could produce a different outcome in a real fight.
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AZWildCat
post Jan 12 2014, 01:33 PM
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QUOTE (ryustuh @ Jan 12 2014, 12:59 PM) *
as cshel alluded to earlier, sparring isn't a real fight. i haven't seen the session you're referring to myself, but headgear, 16 oz gloves, and state of mind could produce a different outcome in a real fight.

Never intended it was
But your right no headgear smaller gloves and Chavez in a decent camp again is bad for gennady....not to mention the huge weight advantage

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