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> Klitschko vs Adamek
The Ollie Reed F...
post Jan 27 2011, 03:39 AM
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QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Jan 26 2011, 09:19 PM) *
What non-American has America embraced? Peter?? Even when the guy was an undefeated prospect with a high KO ratio, people on here hated him. I liked him, but many, many people here despised him. Tua never had a Tyson like following. Both of these guys were liked a lot for devastating KO's. I dont remember them selling any more PPV's than Chambers or Byrd. Ike Ibeabuchi was a similar fighter to Vitali. He wasnt some KO monster. He was a boxer/brawler, like Vitaly. I agree, that KO's put butts in the seats. I think that if any of those guys you listed were from a Ranch in Montana, they would have actually sold out arena's here because of their American roots and their ability to KO opponents. Same goes with the Klits. I've actually been down this road here before. Previously, I injected race into the argument too.


That's a tough call as those guys didn't fight in a PPV era so of course Eddie Chambers numbers are going to be better (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Tua knocked out guys and had a big following but the reason he wasn't as big as Tyson was he simply didn't have Mike's charisma. Frankly who has had the Tyson aura in the modern era? In any division?

Nor did Ibeabuchi or Tua win titles. Hard to become world famous when you aren't even the champ.

If Mike Tyson came along today, in the modern era of the internet and cable TV with 24/7 type shows, whether he be American, Brazilian or Samoan he'd be bigger than Jesus (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
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gravytrain
post Jan 27 2011, 03:52 AM
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QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Jan 27 2011, 01:28 AM) *
What are you on?


Ali is about as similar to Adamek as Mathis is to Wlad. Using Wlad/Adamek as a measuring stick for for Ali/Wlad is like using Ali/Mathis for Ali/Wlad. Wlad might have the weight and height advantage but that's likely where it stops. Ali has the hand speed, foot speed, chin, heart, and ring IQ. If anything people should be wondering how Wlad could deal with Ali rather than the other way around.

Personally, on the subject of Wlad/ATGs, I see numerous ATGs stopping him.
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gravytrain
post Jan 27 2011, 04:16 AM
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QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Jan 27 2011, 03:39 AM) *
That's a tough call as those guys didn't fight in a PPV era so of course Eddie Chambers numbers are going to be better (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Tua knocked out guys and had a big following but the reason he wasn't as big as Tyson was he simply didn't have Mike's charisma. Frankly who has had the Tyson aura in the modern era? In any division?

Nor did Ibeabuchi or Tua win titles. Hard to become world famous when you aren't even the champ.

If Mike Tyson came along today, in the modern era of the internet and cable TV with 24/7 type shows, whether he be American, Brazilian or Samoan he'd be bigger than Jesus (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)


Some crude motherfucker talking about eating asses and fucking female reporters.. MTV would give him his own show.

I don't think nationality has anything to do with lack of American interest in the Klits, they're just not entertaining to anyone other than boxing fans and casual fans is where the real money is at. They're articulate, intelligent, and well mannered fighters who are very methodical in the ring against overmatched opponents. That shit isn't putting PPVs on cable bills.
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The Ollie Reed F...
post Jan 27 2011, 04:32 AM
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QUOTE (gravytrain @ Jan 27 2011, 04:16 AM) *
Some crude motherfucker talking about eating asses and fucking female reporters.. MTV would give him his own show.

I don't think nationality has anything to do with lack of American interest in the Klits, they're just not entertaining to anyone other than boxing fans and casual fans is where the real money is at. They're articulate, intelligent, and well mannered fighters who are very methodical in the ring against overmatched opponents. That shit isn't putting PPVs on cable bills.


Agreed. Although very quickly to make my point clear I'm talking about the pre-jail Tyson. Probably even the pre-Givens Tyson. The young kid with the lisp who politely said he was trying to drive the guys nose up into his brain and who iced guys with chilling ease.

People forget just how popular that Tyson was. It's like Elvis. Anytime you mention that dude people just think of the fat, jumps suit wearing, Vegas period Elvis. They don't remember the young Elvis at the start of his career, just the caricature. Tyson suffers the same fate (though very much of his own doing.)

When I say Tyson would be bigger than Jesus I'm actually meaning the young version. The old version would be pretty big too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
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The Original MrF...
post Jan 27 2011, 05:13 AM
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QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Jan 27 2011, 04:32 AM) *
Agreed. Although very quickly to make my point clear I'm talking about the pre-jail Tyson. Probably even the pre-Givens Tyson. The young kid with the lisp who politely said he was trying to drive the guys nose up into his brain and who iced guys with chilling ease.

People forget just how popular that Tyson was. It's like Elvis. Anytime you mention that dude people just think of the fat, jumps suit wearing, Vegas period Elvis. They don't remember the young Elvis at the start of his career, just the caricature. Tyson suffers the same fate (though very much of his own doing.)

When I say Tyson would be bigger than Jesus I'm actually meaning the young version. The old version would be pretty big too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)



The young version of Jesus? Was that pre crucifixion? LOL!
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The Ollie Reed F...
post Jan 27 2011, 05:21 AM
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QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Jan 27 2011, 06:13 AM) *
The young version of Jesus? Was that pre crucifixion? LOL!


Yeah yeah the dude who could turn water into wine. Now that's big!!
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BGv2.0
post Jan 27 2011, 12:49 PM
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QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Jan 26 2011, 10:19 PM) *
They are no better than the era of contenders and title holders that the Klits have fought or will fight in this era.

Is there some secret way of you have of measuring the crop of the 80's who were dominated by Holmes and later Tyson compared to the guys today??

Please prove to me that Michael Dokes or Tony Tubbs are in better shape than David Haye and Tomas Adamek.

What non-American has America embraced? Peter?? Even when the guy was an undefeated prospect with a high KO ratio, people on here hated him. I liked him, but many, many people here despised him. Tua never had a Tyson like following. Both of these guys were liked a lot for devastating KO's. I dont remember them selling any more PPV's than Chambers or Byrd. Ike Ibeabuchi was a similar fighter to Vitali. He wasnt some KO monster. He was a boxer/brawler, like Vitaly. I agree, that KO's put butts in the seats. I think that if any of those guys you listed were from a Ranch in Montana, they would have actually sold out arena's here because of their American roots and their ability to KO opponents. Same goes with the Klits. I've actually been down this road here before. Previously, I injected race into the argument too.

What facts? Are you stating your opinion as fact? How can you prove to everyone on here that its a fact that the 80's were better than the modern era. How can you prove as fact that Wlad or Vit wouldnt KO 1972's version of George Foreman? I think the difference between the different eras boils down to who fought who. The 70 and 90's guys all fought and beat each other for the most part. There was no 1 guy who dominated the periods. The 80's and now are dominated by 1 or 2 guys and thats why history has been pretty harsh with the two eras. .


YEAH...they were better...and there is no secret to it...simply watch all of their fights and compare them to the fighters today. How you can watch past fights of those I listed and then watch fights of the guys you listed and not HONESTLY see the difference in skills and abilitya nd determination is beyond me.

And nice pick on the "prove to me" statement....you simply took the two fat men on the list and compared them to the two extreamly well conditioned guys fighting today. I can tell you that Dokes and Tubbs were in better shape than Arreola or Peter...but guys like Ribalta and Tucker were in great shape.

As for Peter's popularity on was not simply limiting it to this site....prior to his fight with Wlad and even after due to the showing he put on with Wlad, the majority of the boxing community embraced him as a commodity....NOBODY is using the word "embraced" here in comparison to Tyson...you assume too much. Tyson was a special situation that very few if any boxers live up to...maybe Ali...but that is a short list of HW's that ever reached that level of popularity. And Ike was NOTHING like Vitali...that makes me wonder if you actually ever watched the guy, Ike would slug it out in the trenches and use devestating combos..somthing I RARELY ever see Vitali do, the exception being his fight with LL. Vitali stands on the outside and jabs and rights for the most part.

And how do you explain that Ranch in Montana BS theory in relation to Tommy Morrison? Here was a guy that was white, KOing the hell out of people...he was even kin to John Wayne for God's sake and I think he actually was bron on a "Ranch in Montana"...YET he never garnered the level of respect that Tua or Lewis did....that's an BS argument. America has embraced guys like Manny and Kosta Tzyu as well as Azuma Nelson....it has to do with what you do in the ring! Americans will love anybody as long as they LOVE what you do in that ring.

Well, when it comes down to era matchups...of course none of us can "prove" anything. We all realize that. BUT...you can base assumptions on recorded history...as in watching fights. AND...based on that...it's a FACT that the 80's lot were better! Just watch the fights...that's all it takes. So to answer your question about my secret? I use my eyes.
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JLUVBABY
post Jan 27 2011, 12:51 PM
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QUOTE (gravytrain @ Jan 27 2011, 12:27 AM) *
boxing equipment? idk about that, wasn't boxing back in the 70s and 80s lol. i don't think the little changes to bags are going to change much in terms of performance. you're right if you're talking about strength equipment but you've got to use it and the knowledge to take advantage of it.


you dont know about that?... why are you speaking on things you are unclear about?... lol... equipment that fighters use has taken all kinds of leaps and bounds over the years right down to the mouth piece fighters use.... doesnt matter that you werent watching boxing back in the 70's or 80's... all it takes is to research the old fighters and you'll see a major difference in equipment and the equipments ability to help fighters receive desired results... but again as i said even though they didnt have the technology of now there where other intangibles that bring them up to speed such as their toughness... i dont think fighters are as touch as they used to be... just my opinion... larry holmes fought 15 hard rounds vs norton with a torn bicep... can you imagine the pain of that and he went into the fight with the injury... vitali klit quit a fight he was winning with only 2 rounds to go in a 12 round fight.... fighters are just different these days... fighters fought each other back in the days to prove who was the baddest... they protect themselves as long as possible now so a lot of things have changed... i can go on and on with this topic...
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JLUVBABY
post Jan 27 2011, 12:57 PM
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QUOTE (BGv2.0 @ Jan 27 2011, 11:49 AM) *
And nice pick on the "prove to me" statement....you simply took the two fat men on the list and compared them to the two extreamly well conditioned guys fighting today. I can tell you that Dokes and Tubbs were in better shape than Arreola or Peter...but guys like Ribalta and Tucker were in great shape.


dokes and tubbs beat the hell out of Arreola and peter... They where both very skilled heavyweights... yes tubbs was fat and other than tyson and a few guys that caught him later in his career he was very highly skilled... matter of fact he deserved the nod over bowe in their fight... and dokes was another fighter that if not for the caine would have had a much better career than what he amounted to... tubbs and dokes won big fights... arreola cant seem to care enough to get in shape and peter isnt much better... lol... some of these guys need to research before trying to discuss... lol.. dont give yaself to much of a headache bg going back and fourth with that dude... he just dont know...
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gravytrain
post Jan 27 2011, 03:08 PM
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QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Jan 27 2011, 12:51 PM) *
you dont know about that?... why are you speaking on things you are unclear about?... lol... equipment that fighters use has taken all kinds of leaps and bounds over the years right down to the mouth piece fighters use.... doesnt matter that you werent watching boxing back in the 70's or 80's... all it takes is to research the old fighters and you'll see a major difference in equipment and the equipments ability to help fighters receive desired results... but again as i said even though they didnt have the technology of now there where other intangibles that bring them up to speed such as their toughness... i dont think fighters are as touch as they used to be... just my opinion... larry holmes fought 15 hard rounds vs norton with a torn bicep... can you imagine the pain of that and he went into the fight with the injury... vitali klit quit a fight he was winning with only 2 rounds to go in a 12 round fight.... fighters are just different these days... fighters fought each other back in the days to prove who was the baddest... they protect themselves as long as possible now so a lot of things have changed... i can go on and on with this topic...



I don't think you can really tell how different an old double end bag would be from the new ones unless you get on one. they're made out of different material and everything now but they could feel about the same. same with heavy bags, they might be better quality now but they could feel about the same when you're on one. either way it's all the same action just with a different object, they've just changed materials and made the construction better.

the biggest difference i can think of is a fighter can hire people now to make him perform better than just what he's naturally capable of. he can hire a nutritionist to help manage weight and get him the right food to help him recover from workouts, Alex Ariza to inject steroids in his ass, and a S&C coach to give him workouts to make him quicker, have more stamina, and more explosive.

QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Jan 27 2011, 04:32 AM) *
Agreed. Although very quickly to make my point clear I'm talking about the pre-jail Tyson. Probably even the pre-Givens Tyson. The young kid with the lisp who politely said he was trying to drive the guys nose up into his brain and who iced guys with chilling ease.

People forget just how popular that Tyson was. It's like Elvis. Anytime you mention that dude people just think of the fat, jumps suit wearing, Vegas period Elvis. They don't remember the young Elvis at the start of his career, just the caricature. Tyson suffers the same fate (though very much of his own doing.)

When I say Tyson would be bigger than Jesus I'm actually meaning the young version. The old version would be pretty big too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)


I see him being someone that could make a killing especially with PPV. Once he got hot every company would want a piece of him so he'd be heavily marketed, he'd average an outrageous buy rate. I mean if I remember correctly he was making 30 million a fight and that was really before PPV took off, with how PPV is now he could be looking for a minimum of 50-60 million with the guaranteed purse and PPV revenue.

This post has been edited by gravytrain: Jan 27 2011, 03:25 PM
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