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> JMM vs Mayweather 2, How well would Marquez fair now against him?
mgrover
post Dec 28 2012, 07:30 AM
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why would is Marquez still with top rank? I thought he had like a 3 fight deal or some shit? Or has he made it into a fully fledged thing?
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wolterb
post Dec 28 2012, 08:53 AM
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QUOTE (Dolimite @ Dec 27 2012, 10:15 PM) *
If the money is right he will. If it is an offer he can not refuse then Marquez will take a 12 round ass kicking.


my post was disingenuous though I doubt there is an offer marquez would take to tarnish his recently resolved legacy even if it came from corleone himself.
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BrutUalBK
post Dec 28 2012, 09:40 AM
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QUOTE (MaxPayne @ Dec 27 2012, 09:27 PM) *
It's an excellent question about JMM's current contract status with Top Rank. I do remember him signing that 3 fight deal.

The thing is, Arum is usually great at covering his bases with stuff like this. I believe that since the 3rd Pacman - JMM fight, he's been in cash-out mode with regard to Manny.

Which means, that he would want to make sure that he had multiple fights left on the contracts of whoever was in line to fight Manny.

Bradley is locked down and isn't going anywhere. Rios is the same. I believe it's possible that a contract extension was carried out with JMM on the DL in advance to the 4th Pacman fight.

Remember, when Cotto was considering his options, it was pretty clear in the news that there was contract - related rumblings. We haven't heard anything similar for JMM.

If he was a promotional free agent, then I say bring it on and let's make this fight happen.

However, the very fact that Arum was quick to speak on a possible 5th Pacman fight tells me that he has a signed contract in his back pocket.

Sigh. Good men die young. Evil, slimy, wretched blood sucking parasites like Arum live forever it seems.


All very excellent points, I agree that Arum has a silent contract with JMM that extended beyond the 3 fight deal. The only reason they took the 4th fight with JMM was because they were so certain that this time Pac would KO him which is why that bogus belt/Title (Champion of the Decade or whatever) was created and when Manny didn't win it they simply draped it across Marquez's shoulder and did not provide any fanfare with it when they did, it wasn't even mentioned in the ring ceremony.

Someone stated earlier that Arum and Golden Boy don't do business together as though it was a problem for GB, the only problem is Arum. Bob Arum is sore at losing out on his two biggest Cashcows (Floyd and Oscar) and he refuses to do business with them unless the money is split 50-50 or he gets the Lion's share, I believe that both Floyd and Oscar would gladly do business with him and deservingly so if they got a 55-45 deal in their favor but Bob would never agree to that.

You mentioned that Bob was in "cash out" mode with Pac since his 3rd fight with JMM but I disagree with that, I believe he was never in cash out mode until now/after the KO; however, he was in "Protect His Cashcow at all Costs" mode since he created the hype surrounding Manny which is why you never saw him face a slick fighter (other than Marquez) and why he was kept away from GB fighters (lose lose for Bob either way).

QUOTE
Normally, I'd say n way in hell because JMM is a Top Prank guy but I can't see JMM passing on some flat rate offer Mayweather throws at him like Manny did. I can see Floyd offering Marquez like 15-20 mill and Marquez being like "Fuck you Arum, you'd better make this work." I can't see him peacefully declining like Manny has. Marquez is way more vocal about Arum. Let's not forget he accused Arum of a conspiracy after the 3rd fight.



I agree with this, JMM isn't a dumb pushover like Manny. I often speculated that the reason Manny never left Bob is because Arum has all the dirt in the world that he could dish on him and that if Bob turned the damage that it could do to Pac's credibility would ruin his political campaign as well.


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Cshel86
post Dec 28 2012, 12:31 PM
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QUOTE (MaxPayne @ Dec 27 2012, 10:27 PM) *
It's an excellent question about JMM's current contract status with Top Rank. I do remember him signing that 3 fight deal.

The thing is, Arum is usually great at covering his bases with stuff like this. I believe that since the 3rd Pacman - JMM fight, he's been in cash-out mode with regard to Manny.

Which means, that he would want to make sure that he had multiple fights left on the contracts of whoever was in line to fight Manny.

Bradley is locked down and isn't going anywhere. Rios is the same. I believe it's possible that a contract extension was carried out with JMM on the DL in advance to the 4th Pacman fight.

Remember, when Cotto was considering his options, it was pretty clear in the news that there was contract - related rumblings. We haven't heard anything similar for JMM.

If he was a promotional free agent, then I say bring it on and let's make this fight happen.

However, the very fact that Arum was quick to speak on a possible 5th Pacman fight tells me that he has a signed contract in his back pocket.

Sigh. Good men die young. Evil, slimy, wretched blood sucking parasites like Arum live forever it seems.

Excellent points about Arum lining his pockets and having Manny in cash-out mode. We could still have a JMM/Bradley and a JMM/Rios fight in the wings...smart move Arum.

The talks of that 5th fight IMMEDIATELY after the ending of the 4th fight, is all too reminiscent of the ending of the 3rd fight where Arum broke his neck to announce a 4th fight. Arum's probably had his own ass covered before the ink even dried for the 4th fight.

QUOTE (Franchize @ Dec 28 2012, 07:22 AM) *
Normally, I'd say n way in hell because JMM is a Top Prank guy but I can't see JMM passing on some flat rate offer Mayweather throws at him like Manny did. I can see Floyd offering Marquez like 15-20 mill and Marquez being like "Fuck you Arum, you'd better make this work." I can't see him peacefully declining like Manny has. Marquez is way more vocal about Arum. Let's not forget he accused Arum of a conspiracy after the 3rd fight.

I couldn't see JMM passing up 15-20M offered from Mayweather (which is a crazy amount). The kicker is, Arum wouldn't even allow his biggest cash cow to accept 40M, so Juan has waaaay heavier lifting to do, before he can ever get Bob to break a sweat.

As much as I dont like Arum, truth is, Marquez wouldn't have been in a position to make a huge payday ANYWHERE else, other than under Arum's banner. IF he happens to be a free agent and GBP is entertaining a Mayweather rematch, then Juan should thank Arum for a what he did for him with the last two Manny fights.

Had Marquez not been CHALLENGED to bulk up and fight Manny for a 3rd and 4th time, I doubt if he'd have the motivation to do it against any other opponent. Honesltly, I saw Marquez losing interest in boxing (due to limited opposition) after the first Mayweather fight. Hell, he looked SO out of place while sharing the ring with a young Diaz for the first fight.

I thought we were pretty much seeing the last days of Marquez, until he got the Mayweather fight. Even in that fight, he didn't look his best...maybe because he was pissed about the weight and how Floyd handled it at the weigh-in, though I cant imagine how you could be mad at a guy for putting another $600k in your pocket.

I felt bad for Marquez for having to take a Diaz rematch, when he CLEARLY flattened Diaz in the first fight. Again, I thought we were seeing the last of him. He hit his peak in the Katsidis fight. I didn't see much motivation from him after that, though he still has the skills to fight whoever.
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daprofessor
post Dec 28 2012, 01:12 PM
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pac losing reduces payout for arum. reduced pay out to pac = more money for arum.
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KOpower
post Dec 28 2012, 02:31 PM
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QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Dec 26 2012, 08:44 AM) *
Bob Arum could care less about feeding the likes of JMM to the wolves, however he did an excellent job of protecting Manny from Floyd and in the process blew a 40 million dollar payday (I wonder how many fights it would take for Manny to earn that kind of money now).

I'd still love to see Floyd tax that a$$ on Manny but even at this stage I still believe that Bob will not put him in the ring vs Floyd, what I think we'll see is Pac get a crack at the straight-forward style of guys like Rios to help build back up his reputation as some type of slugger (I never really saw him that way).

If JMM does not get a shot at the likes of Floyd then obviously he should fish out a 5th fight with Manny if for nothing else except making more money this time around and cementing his dominance with another rousing KO to seal the deal. At this point JMM is a bonafide Superstar on par with Manny and just under Floyd and at the very least then he and Bradley should square off with the winner getting Floyd.



Mayweather won't fight Manny. It's that simple. It isn't hard to understand. It is so easy to understand that even a Mayweather could do it. I don't know why Floyd is so scared...but he is. I think Floyd would handle Manny assuming Manny doesn't catch Floyd. I still think Floyd's chin is weak (ala Roy Jones) and if Pac can get to that chin it will cause damage. That has to be the reason Floyd refuses to fight him.


Manny all but called Floyd a b*tch on ESPN. He said he would take any test and he said he would agree to less money. It is what it is and Mayweather still refuses the fight. Is it sad? Of course but Floyd is scared to fight Manny. He was before and even post-KO I bet he is scared of the fight. Floyd would rather fight guys with average hand-speed than face Manny. Oh well...
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daprofessor
post Dec 28 2012, 03:40 PM
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QUOTE (KOpower @ Dec 28 2012, 03:31 PM) *
Mayweather won't fight Manny. It's that simple. It isn't hard to understand. It is so easy to understand that even a Mayweather could do it. I don't know why Floyd is so scared...but he is. I think Floyd would handle Manny assuming Manny doesn't catch Floyd. I still think Floyd's chin is weak (ala Roy Jones) and if Pac can get to that chin it will cause damage. That has to be the reason Floyd refuses to fight him.


Manny all but called Floyd a b*tch on ESPN. He said he would take any test and he said he would agree to less money. It is what it is and Mayweather still refuses the fight. Is it sad? Of course but Floyd is scared to fight Manny. He was before and even post-KO I bet he is scared of the fight. Floyd would rather fight guys with average hand-speed than face Manny. Oh well...


i knew my filipino brethren would be back! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

welcome back brother!!! we missed u guys.

let the learning begin...since pac is pretty much done, u might as well learn more about boxing.

jmm is a smaller, slower, less creative, counter puncher that is easier to hit than floyd. floyd is not scared of pac...never has been. arum never wanted the fight. pac had plenty of opportunities to make it.
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sduck
post Dec 28 2012, 04:35 PM
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Same fight, same results. Marquez himself said weight wasn't an issue when he fought Mayweather, it's just how their styles matched up. Mayweather would be dumb to bring the fight to Marquez if there were a rematch, it'd just be the same fight, with the same result. Probably worse. Marquez looks slower to me now than before.

QUOTE (KOpower @ Dec 28 2012, 02:31 PM) *
Mayweather won't fight Manny. It's that simple. It isn't hard to understand. It is so easy to understand that even a Mayweather could do it. I don't know why Floyd is so scared...but he is. I think Floyd would handle Manny assuming Manny doesn't catch Floyd. I still think Floyd's chin is weak (ala Roy Jones) and if Pac can get to that chin it will cause damage. That has to be the reason Floyd refuses to fight him.


Manny all but called Floyd a b*tch on ESPN. He said he would take any test and he said he would agree to less money. It is what it is and Mayweather still refuses the fight. Is it sad? Of course but Floyd is scared to fight Manny. He was before and even post-KO I bet he is scared of the fight. Floyd would rather fight guys with average hand-speed than face Manny. Oh well...

Oh look at here its a pactard.

This post has been edited by sduck: Dec 28 2012, 04:37 PM
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KOpower
post Dec 28 2012, 04:39 PM
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QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 28 2012, 03:40 PM) *
i knew my filipino brethren would be back! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

welcome back brother!!! we missed u guys.

let the learning begin...since pac is pretty much done, u might as well learn more about boxing.

jmm is a smaller, slower, less creative, counter puncher that is easier to hit than floyd. floyd is not scared of pac...never has been. arum never wanted the fight. pac had plenty of opportunities to make it.


Filipino? I am a white that couldn't care less about Manny or Floyd outside of boxing. I am not a fan of Manny. I am a HUGE fan of Floyd as a boxer, but don't think anything of him as a man.


Floyd is 100% scared of Manny. Why else would he not fight him? Floyd is all about the money and Pac clearly represented the most. Say what you want about Arum but Manny himself went on TV and said he would take less money and agree to the test. I wanted Floyd and Manny to fight BADLY, but Floyd was scared.

I agree with you about the fight. I do think Floyd would pick Manny apart. With that being said, Manny has hand speed that Floyd hasn't seen since Judah and we all know that Judah got to that chin a few times and dropped Floyd early in their fight. Manny, like Judah, is a southpaw with great hand speed. Manny also has more power and is a better overall fighter than Judah. That would be the only real mystery in the fight.
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Hotsauce
post Dec 28 2012, 05:09 PM
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this fight would easily sell especially on cinco de mayo. it could do more than floyd/cotto.
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