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> Danny Green vs Antonio Tarver
Guest_ViperSniper_*
post Apr 8 2011, 11:18 AM
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QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Apr 7 2011, 10:24 AM) *
If Mundine had ever pulled a stunt like fighting Paul Briggs he would've been crucified and rightly so. If I had to pick a point where I started disliking Green a little it was this fight. It really was a black mark for he sport of boxing.

That and the fact that all of his opponents lately are fighting for his supposed CW crown yet they all come in at 'Dannyweight.' What's that all about?


Stevenski did a very good job of replying to this. Mundine has done much worse and got away with it way longer than he should have. Not until he continued fighting bum after bum after bum for years, while running his mouth while never making the effort to fight the best of leave Australia did the people start catching on.

As for the catchweights they are nothing I really support at all, but Briggs didn't even bother training properly to make them anyways.

QUOTE (AussieLad @ Apr 7 2011, 11:02 AM) *
Siaca was a cynical attempt at beating Mundines conqueror. He had fought 4 times in 4 years prior, and was coming off a year long lay off. That is a least resistance fight based purely on sticking it to mundine

The Briggs fight was a disgrace. A 3 year lay off only to come back and fight for a title? Some dodgy strings were pulled in making that match

When i said he started down mundines yellow brick road of shit fights... you bet he did. Did he meet mundines mates the cowardly lion and the tin man, no, but he sure as hell shook hands with the scare crow. All I said was he dropped a few notches in my book. If he didnt drop a few notches in your own after those matches then there is something wrong with you

Is he anywhere near as bad as Mundine? No, not even close to the shit choc was pulling, but still... he tainted his fan base with some recent shitty fights.

Yes, in retrospect Jones was a carcass, but at the time he was supposed to beat Green. Granted. But realistically, Jones only looked good against Lacy because Lacy was a shell. Lacy gave people a false sense of security that Roy was back on track. He wasnt even close to the old roy, as demonstrated in the green fight and subsequent performances. If i am guilty of anything it is in overestimating Jones prior to the fight. But in the cold light of day, regardless of the prefight hype, Green fought a shot Jones. The prefight hype for Jones argument only carries you so far. It does not improve the actual quality of the win. That can only be determined by the quality of the opponent that steps into the ring on the night


Nothing wrong with me here!

I think Danny Green has been heavily criticized as I think people were/are expecting too much from him. It's not like he is considered the best nor claiming to be (like Mundine), not to mention, people forget to mention he was coming out of retirement and is now coming off a serious injury. Has Green fought the best at Cruiserweights? No, but when your the 'best' of any division it's hard for everyone to get a shot. I just don't think it's fair to compare Green's competition to something Mundine has mastered and is now become known for. Danny Green has many things Anthony Mundine lacks.

For the Paul Briggs fight, as it was out of left field & agree that the fight was shit, but I can see why it was made as it was a massive fight in Australia. The only thing that was more wrong about the fight being made was the disgusting effort Paul Briggs displayed which unjustifiably reflected on Green. The only dodgy strings pulled was by Briggs and the people around him and the commissions ended up ruling it that way. I can never forgive him for taking such a weak embarrassing dive which seemed to have hurt Danny Green's reputation just as much as himself, but on top of that many played Paul Briggs out to be some victim. Fuck that! I don't think Danny Green had anything to do with that dive and because of his disgust and embarrassment he showed inside the ring after the fight, Green ended up magnified the situation even more which didn't help the already fucked display that took place. All of his words were at the heat of the moment which came through the guys passion which he had every right feeling the way he did, but unfortunately may have not helped him. His UD victory over Flores in his nesxt fight was a good start.

As for Jones-Lacy, Jones was a shell of himself too, that was no secret to the boxing world! Some saw he wasn't at his best, based on how he looked after coming down from Heavyweight, but I think majority knew he was a shell of his former self back since he was KO'd good by Glen Johnson! As for the Lacy fight, they were two fighters past their best and labeled 'shot' but I don't think many were expecting Jones to look as impressive as he did leading into the fight, which was a credit to Jones.

As for Danny Green-Roy Jones Jr. fight, I really don't think anyone was thinking Jones wasn't shot and I also don't think anyone (including Hopkins) thought Green was going to win, despite how shot Roy was anyways. I think it was more a case of people underestimating what Danny Green was capable of. People like to discredit Green for losing to Mundine, truth is as bad a wrap Mundine rightfully gets, at one stage the guy really was a decent fighter (like against Green) who is one of the biggest waste of talents I have ever seen and since that fight, Danny Green has improved alot, while Mundine has declined and the paths both their careers have taken shows since. Just take a look at what divisions they're fighting in now & both their next opponents for proof.

Does Green victory over Jones mean anything to boxing? Not at all, because everyone knew Jones was well past his best days, had lost and been KO'd many times prior to that. But it's still impressive he could stop Roy Jones Jr quicker than anyone ever has. Danny Green was not and is still not meant to be some world beater, so for a limited fighter of his caliber to KO Roy Jones Jr in a 121 seconds despite how shot Roy was, is a pretty decent accomplishment, that shouldn't take away the quality of performance.

Bernard Hopkins who is considered one of the most talented fighters in the last 25 years who was top 3 P4P fighter in the world still justified fighting a 'carcass' of Jones who manage to look horrible for 12 rounds, spending most the time complaining, rolling around on the floor and still never manage to never have Jones hurt or in trouble. Despite how old and shot Roy was, Danny Green deserves respect for getting Jones out of there the way he did, because despite everyone knowing how shot he is, no one would have expected Jones to put up a better fight against Bernard Hopkins at that age than Danny Green.

This post has been edited by ViperSniper: Apr 8 2011, 11:35 AM
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AussieLad
post Apr 8 2011, 05:42 PM
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QUOTE (ViperSniper @ Apr 8 2011, 05:18 PM) *
Stevenski did a very good job of replying to this. Mundine has done much worse and got away with it way longer than he should have. Not until he continued fighting bum after bum after bum for years, while running his mouth while never making the effort to fight the best of leave Australia did the people start catching on.

As for the catchweights they are nothing I really support at all, but Briggs didn't even bother training properly to make them anyways.



Nothing wrong with me here!

I think Danny Green has been heavily criticized as I think people were/are expecting too much from him. It's not like he is considered the best nor claiming to be (like Mundine), not to mention, people forget to mention he was coming out of retirement and is now coming off a serious injury. Has Green fought the best at Cruiserweights? No, but when your the 'best' of any division it's hard for everyone to get a shot. I just don't think it's fair to compare Green's competition to something Mundine has mastered and is now become known for. Danny Green has many things Anthony Mundine lacks.

For the Paul Briggs fight, as it was out of left field & agree that the fight was shit, but I can see why it was made as it was a massive fight in Australia. The only thing that was more wrong about the fight being made was the disgusting effort Paul Briggs displayed which unjustifiably reflected on Green. The only dodgy strings pulled was by Briggs and the people around him and the commissions ended up ruling it that way. I can never forgive him for taking such a weak embarrassing dive which seemed to have hurt Danny Green's reputation just as much as himself, but on top of that many played Paul Briggs out to be some victim. Fuck that! I don't think Danny Green had anything to do with that dive and because of his disgust and embarrassment he showed inside the ring after the fight, Green ended up magnified the situation even more which didn't help the already fucked display that took place. All of his words were at the heat of the moment which came through the guys passion which he had every right feeling the way he did, but unfortunately may have not helped him. His UD victory over Flores in his nesxt fight was a good start.

As for Jones-Lacy, Jones was a shell of himself too, that was no secret to the boxing world! Some saw he wasn't at his best, based on how he looked after coming down from Heavyweight, but I think majority knew he was a shell of his former self back since he was KO'd good by Glen Johnson! As for the Lacy fight, they were two fighters past their best and labeled 'shot' but I don't think many were expecting Jones to look as impressive as he did leading into the fight, which was a credit to Jones.

As for Danny Green-Roy Jones Jr. fight, I really don't think anyone was thinking Jones wasn't shot and I also don't think anyone (including Hopkins) thought Green was going to win, despite how shot Roy was anyways. I think it was more a case of people underestimating what Danny Green was capable of. People like to discredit Green for losing to Mundine, truth is as bad a wrap Mundine rightfully gets, at one stage the guy really was a decent fighter (like against Green) who is one of the biggest waste of talents I have ever seen and since that fight, Danny Green has improved alot, while Mundine has declined and the paths both their careers have taken shows since. Just take a look at what divisions they're fighting in now & both their next opponents for proof.

Does Green victory over Jones mean anything to boxing? Not at all, because everyone knew Jones was well past his best days, had lost and been KO'd many times prior to that. But it's still impressive he could stop Roy Jones Jr quicker than anyone ever has. Danny Green was not and is still not meant to be some world beater, so for a limited fighter of his caliber to KO Roy Jones Jr in a 121 seconds despite how shot Roy was, is a pretty decent accomplishment, that shouldn't take away the quality of performance.

Bernard Hopkins who is considered one of the most talented fighters in the last 25 years who was top 3 P4P fighter in the world still justified fighting a 'carcass' of Jones who manage to look horrible for 12 rounds, spending most the time complaining, rolling around on the floor and still never manage to never have Jones hurt or in trouble. Despite how old and shot Roy was, Danny Green deserves respect for getting Jones out of there the way he did, because despite everyone knowing how shot he is, no one would have expected Jones to put up a better fight against Bernard Hopkins at that age than Danny Green.



The disgusting effort by Briggs reflecting badly on Green? What about Green fighting him in the first place given how long he had been inactive? That is what reflects badly on him, and is the source of the woeful display in the ring. And its because it was a massive fight in Australia that he overlooked this glaring deficit in the quality of his opponent... presumably for $$$ and name value. A shitty move that deserves criticism. Sorry, you cant fight a "has been" and then dodge the flack when the "has been" doesnt perform. Its a case of "what did you expect was going to happen?" The guy should never have been in the ring in the first place

Bernard knew Jones was a carcass. He took the fight because of his ego, because of the history the 2 shared together, not because the fight was justifiable. A p4p fighter taking on a guy that got absolutely obliterated in 1 round by a relative nobody in his last fight? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes_anim.gif) Thats almost like a floyd mayweather jr bitch move. Bernard took criticism in accepting this fight, and the criticism was justified.
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Lil-lightsout
post Apr 8 2011, 11:34 PM
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QUOTE (Big Slim Sweet @ Apr 7 2011, 11:11 AM) *
All I know is the winner of this fight needs to come see James.


Well I guess the first place they should look is either KFC or BK.


Also, I am hoping Tarver ices Green after what he did to Roy.

This post has been edited by Lil-lightsout: Apr 8 2011, 11:34 PM
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King Eugene
post Apr 9 2011, 12:10 AM
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I really hope Green gives him a nice and slow beat down and brutally KO's him in the 12th
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Guest_ViperSniper_*
post Apr 9 2011, 01:14 AM
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QUOTE (AussieLad @ Apr 8 2011, 11:42 PM) *
The disgusting effort by Briggs reflecting badly on Green? What about Green fighting him in the first place given how long he had been inactive? That is what reflects badly on him, and is the source of the woeful display in the ring. And its because it was a massive fight in Australia that he overlooked this glaring deficit in the quality of his opponent... presumably for $$$ and name value. A shitty move that deserves criticism. Sorry, you cant fight a "has been" and then dodge the flack when the "has been" doesnt perform. Its a case of "what did you expect was going to happen?" The guy should never have been in the ring in the first place

Bernard knew Jones was a carcass. He took the fight because of his ego, because of the history the 2 shared together, not because the fight was justifiable. A p4p fighter taking on a guy that got absolutely obliterated in 1 round by a relative nobody in his last fight? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes_anim.gif) Thats almost like a floyd mayweather jr bitch move. Bernard took criticism in accepting this fight, and the criticism was justified.


Of course he took the Briggs fight for the money and name value as it was a big fight in Australia. Based on the circumstances it was horrible timing to take the fight and was a horrible decision and did get shit for it. And yes, Briggs taking a dive did reflect badly on Green when many start accusing Danny Green of being involved & many start claiming strings were pulled!

Only by Paul Briggs and perhaps his people did they know he didn't want to be in the ring as his weight and body language showed before the bell rang. Danny Green rightfully so did get criticized for taking the fight, but more so with how the fight ended, which was all on Briggs who not only embarrassed himself for taking a weak ass dive, but put a black mark on Danny Green's name and even more on the sport of boxing.

"What did you expect?" argument gets thrown out alot when discussing this fight. And really..I was expecting a lot more than what Briggs showed. Briggs didn't perform? That's a little generous..the guy took a blatant dive!!

By all means if people want to give Green shit for taking the fight that's fair enough, but it was a one off fight you can criticize him for. But I don't think he should take shit for Brigg's actions inside the ring, because despite having a 3 year lay off, and whatever neurology problems he had, you do not go down by the first fucking punch of the fight landed by a grazing jab like that! How the fuck did he get through a single round of sparring, training for the fight if he really was legit?

Just look at Greens reaction while he was down and after the fight as he was just as surprised as everyone watching and the right decision was made when Paul Briggs and his team were fined and suspended for it. The more I think about it the more I think fuck Paul Briggs the fuckin K9!! LOL!


Agreed. Hopkins would have been better off without taking the rematch from 17 years ago with Jones. I know it was because of his own personal reasons, but he justified it to himself which is bad enough. Instead of a weak, pointless fight doing nothing for his career, it actually hurt it. He would have been better off returning the multiple offers, phone messages and personal messages through his team left personally by Danny Green and taken that fight instead. Beat the guy that beat the guy, not the beatin' down, shot guy on the floor LOL.

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Guest_ViperSniper_*
post Apr 9 2011, 02:02 AM
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QUOTE (Fitz @ Apr 9 2011, 07:29 AM) *
I don't even know why people are being so hard on Green. He probably isn't even a top 25-30 p4p fighter, haha.

All of this is because of how he beat Jones. Something he wasn't supposed to do, and was supposed to be a tune up for Jones. I doubt we would even be having discussions about Green and having bitter people if the fight didn't even take place, haha.


I guess that's what sums up my opinion on all of the criticism he cops, for someone who is not even considered highly to begin with, he sure does have high expectations of people. Since fighting at Cruiserweight the guy was coming out of retirement himself and is now coming off a career threatening injury, so I think getting fights with Jones, Siaca, Flores and now Tarver, I think Danny has actually done very well for himself for a fighter who I'd go as far to say isn't even considered a P4P top 60 fighter? Mundine on the other hand was regarded and and proclaimed much higher and has abused his name and situation by feasting on bum after bum with fighters no one has ever heard of. Danny's determination has paid of, while Mundine's lack off has left him taking on a rematch with Garth Who?
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AussieLad
post Apr 9 2011, 02:23 AM
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Mundine and Green are two different people entirely. I didn't raise the comparison of Green and Mundine, as Greens actions stand solely on his own merits. What choc does is irrelevant to Greens career, the only point debating is the discrepancy in boxing fans attitudes to the two. One guy gets nailed for his shitty comp, the other guy had a short string of crap matches and should be held accountable

Flores was a good fight. No problems with that.

Tarver is borderline on paper, based on recent form. If it wasnt for Greens injury i would have him comfortably beating Tarver on points. Maybe the operation wasn't as bad as first thought and he still manages to put away tarver. Certainly a possibility. All i said was i think tarver will land a nice counter at some point and shake danny up. Its called an opinion (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dntknw.gif)

I swear, its pretty funny the dudes leaping to defend green. He had 3 suspect fights in a row in my opinion, two clearly dodgy (one very much so), and a third dodgy in retrospect (though should have been clear from the outset, blinded by wishful thinking and nostalgia). Prior to that, Green has had some good fights against relatively decent opposition. Its not like i'm calling a complete sell out... sheesh... And i dont even really blame Green for the Jones fight either. Roy is a big scalp to have on a resume, and given roys prime greatness, it ensures people will remember Green long after he retires. People will always remember how great Roy was, and in turn remember his losses.

Just calling it how i see it. Then Fitz went on the Fritz...

LOL
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Guest_ViperSniper_*
post Apr 9 2011, 04:01 AM
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QUOTE (AussieLad @ Apr 9 2011, 07:23 AM) *
Mundine and Green are two different people entirely. I didn't raise the comparison of Green and Mundine, as Greens actions stand solely on his own merits. What choc does is irrelevant to Greens career, the only point debating is the discrepancy in boxing fans attitudes to the two. One guy gets nailed for his shitty comp, the other guy had a short string of crap matches and should be held accountable

Flores was a good fight. No problems with that.

Tarver is borderline on paper, based on recent form. If it wasnt for Greens injury i would have him comfortably beating Tarver on points. Maybe the operation wasn't as bad as first thought and he still manages to put away tarver. Certainly a possibility. All i said was i think tarver will land a nice counter at some point and shake danny up. Its called an opinion (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dntknw.gif)

I swear, its pretty funny the dudes leaping to defend green. He had 3 suspect fights in a row in my opinion, two clearly dodgy (one very much so), and a third dodgy in retrospect (though should have been clear from the outset, blinded by wishful thinking and nostalgia). Prior to that, Green has had some good fights against relatively decent opposition. Its not like i'm calling a complete sell out... sheesh... And i dont even really blame Green for the Jones fight either. Roy is a big scalp to have on a resume, and given roys prime greatness, it ensures people will remember Green long after he retires. People will always remember how great Roy was, and in turn remember his losses.

Just calling it how i see it. Then Fitz went on the Fritz...

LOL


Well you did make the comparison of the two due to the fights they take by bringing up 3 fights Danny took since coming out of retirement & compared him to Mundine. Jones was caught while cold & old, Siaca didn't want to continue after feelin the heat and Briggs plain simply took a dive. Other than Dominguez and Flores, I agree he hasn't been tested, therefore appears to have 'easy' fights but I don't think it was all his fault. I have already written why I felt it was unfair to compare Green to Mundine in regards to the paths they have taken. Should he be held accountable for his fights? Absolutely, but I would not be prepared to say he takes easy fights just yet, nor compare him to Mundine for a very long time.

Well there must be something wrong with me because Danny didn't drop a couple of notches in my book, but did so in yours (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dntknw.gif) .It is your opinion and can see why you would say it and I respect it! I just gave you mine back & wrote 'why' I don't agree with it or your comparison of Green to Mundine, because I feel Danny would have to take a bunch of shocking fights for the next couple of years to be compared to like that. Just my opinion, not trying to have a go at you either lol.

Anyways, I think this may be another case of people sleeping on Green as I agree he may have what it takes (heart and power) to hurt Tarver at this point of his career. I hope he does too.

This post has been edited by ViperSniper: Apr 9 2011, 04:05 AM
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Big Slim Sweet
post Apr 9 2011, 10:24 AM
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QUOTE (Fitz @ Apr 9 2011, 01:29 AM) *
All of this is because of how he beat Jones. Something he wasn't supposed to do, and was supposed to be a tune up for Jones. I doubt we would even be having discussions about Green and having bitter people if the fight didn't even take place, haha.

Why do you think people hate Tarver the way they do? Sure he can be a douche but a lot of that visceral hatred comes from the way he gave Roy Jones a sex change.

I don't know how big a deal Green is in Australia but for sure the reason he's on people's radar here is because of what he did to Roy as well. Prior to that, I think most Americans knew him as the guy who'd had a heated sparring session with James Toney.

Speaking of which...

The winner of this fight needs to come see James.
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JLUVBABY
post Apr 9 2011, 11:40 AM
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QUOTE (Big Slim Sweet @ Apr 9 2011, 10:24 AM) *
Why do you think people hate Tarver the way they do? Sure he can be a douche but a lot of that visceral hatred comes from the way he gave Roy Jones a sex change.

I don't know how big a deal Green is in Australia but for sure the reason he's on people's radar here is because of what he did to Roy as well. Prior to that, I think most Americans knew him as the guy who'd had a heated sparring session with James Toney.

Speaking of which...

The winner of this fight needs to come see James.


cant speak for anyone else but my personal dislike for tarver stems from his arrogance and thought in his mind that he is this supreme fighter when in reality he is not... he is cocky when it isnt warrented... the guy was LUCKY in the fact that he caught Roy Jones at the true beginning of his slide in skills and still lost the first fight... got lucky in the second fight with the ko with his eyes closed and all of a sudden he thinks he is king shit... take a look at tarvers record and he has never won a big fight the first time around... he has always needed rematches and that dates back to the eric harding fights... the guy hit the circumstance lotto and it made him a brash cocky shit talker when he didnt have that right... sad thing is some actually give him full credit for that ko of jones which further boosts his shitty ego... i love nothing more than watching him get beat on in the ring and im hoping danny green lays a methodical slow beat down on him...

now his fighting aside i give him full credit as a fight announcer and analyzer on showtime.. i think he does a great job there... i dont hate the guy as a person just when he goes into fighter mode...
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