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> Who is true boxer of decade (2001-2010)
Method
post Aug 17 2011, 05:25 PM
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QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Aug 17 2011, 04:57 PM) *
Of course Manny (and Hopkins) took some losses, that is what is going to happen when you take on consistently tough guys.


That's where I'm at. Thing is, I thought Hopkins beat both Calzaghe AND Taylor. Despite that, even though he's had some "L's", he never got outboxed. He took both those cats to school. Anytime you can cut Calzags work rate in half, have him flailing shots, you're doing something. I dont think guys should be penalized for losing close decisions against top guys. They dare to be great. Can't penalize that. Especially if you're not getting your ass kicked.

Add Calzaghe and Taylor's name to Hopkins' resume, and it only bolsters his case for the decade.

This is just my opinion, and I obviously respect both Floyd and Pac as fighters.

That's why I have no idea how people are so quick to put Donaire, Martinez ahead of Hopkins on the P4P list. He's done so much more than those cats, and is STILL competing at an elite level.

That clip of Ex and Rashad is vintage stuff...well, maybe not vintage, but its pretty fucking cool to see him break that shit down the way he did.

This post has been edited by Method: Aug 17 2011, 05:28 PM
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The Ollie Reed F...
post Aug 17 2011, 05:43 PM
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QUOTE (Method @ Aug 17 2011, 06:25 PM) *
That's where I'm at. Thing is, I thought Hopkins beat both Calzaghe AND Taylor. Despite that, even though he's had some "L's", he never got outboxed. He took both those cats to school. Anytime you can cut Calzags work rate in half, have him flailing shots, you're doing something. I dont think guys should be penalized for losing close decisions against top guys. They dare to be great. Can't penalize that. Especially if you're not getting your ass kicked.

Add Calzaghe and Taylor's name to Hopkins' resume, and it only bolsters his case for the decade.

This is just my opinion, and I obviously respect both Floyd and Pac as fighters.

That's why I have no idea how people are so quick to put Donaire, Martinez ahead of Hopkins on the P4P list. He's done so much more than those cats, and is STILL competing at an elite level.

That clip of Ex and Rashad is vintage stuff...well, maybe not vintage, but its pretty fucking cool to see him break that shit down the way he did.



And neither do I. This is where the Floyd fan boys hinge their whole argument, he's undefeated. Honestly I don't put a great deal of stock in that. I would much rather guys dare to be great as you say and a take a couple of close losses along the way.

Hey did you notice that little jab Hopkins put in during that clip with Evans? I think he was talking about the shoulder roll, "just like James Toney, do you remember him? Haha classic Hopkins.
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mrchitown
post Aug 17 2011, 05:51 PM
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QUOTE (caneman @ Aug 17 2011, 01:26 PM) *
I NEVER heard anyone who thought Shane beat Cotto and for the record while I believe Pac fucked up bad by taking some of the fight he took as of late, mainly not going after Berto, IMO it's hard to knock his resume and say FMJ's is better! If you are gonna say who did Cotto ever beat, it is more so for Zab since that damaged Cotto you talk of smoked him! Whatever though...........


I heard many writers and fans alike saying that they felt Shane won. I also believe that Shane won that fight but it definitely was one of those close fights that could've went either way. And your right it's definitely hard to knock manny's career credentials and that's not my intent as I'm a big fan of his but when i look @ the overall body of work in that time frame I would go with Floyd over Bernard and Manny. And I also agree that he should've pursued a Berto fight as he has taken alot of criticism due to his opposition as of late. And Cotto in my opinion is damaged, not during that fight with Zab which I felt the low blows were taking a toll on Zab, but after that he was in a tough scrap with Shane, he was getting rocked by Zab until Zab faded, He looked decent in his defenses against Gomez and got bricked by Margarito and demolished by Manny. That's what I mean by damaged. Truth is...He wasn't damaged when he fought Zab but he sure as hell was damaged a few fights after that
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JONdaCON817
post Aug 17 2011, 05:54 PM
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QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Aug 17 2011, 05:43 PM) *
Hey did you notice that little jab Hopkins put in during that clip with Evans? I think he was talking about the shoulder roll, "just like James Toney, do you remember him? Haha classic Hopkins.


yea i noticed that.. and was wondering what he meant by that??...
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The Ollie Reed F...
post Aug 17 2011, 05:59 PM
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QUOTE (JONdaCON817 @ Aug 17 2011, 06:54 PM) *
yea i noticed that.. and was wondering what he meant by that??...


Probably just making the point that James is irrelevant whilst he is still the man. Hopkins is such an example of work ethic. I sincerely believe that if Toney had the same work ethic as Hopkins he would be top 5 p4p all time. However work ethic must be considered part of a fighters overall greatness and in this department James falls down badly. Probably worse than any great I can think of.
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mrchitown
post Aug 17 2011, 06:03 PM
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QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Aug 17 2011, 03:57 PM) *
Of course Manny (and Hopkins) took some losses, that is what is going to happen when you take on consistently tough guys.

Well since opinions count as facts in your reckoning it is the opinion of many posters on this board that Floyd did not beat Castillo in their first fight. So does that count as well? There you go again clinging to Floyd's 'O' like a life raft in the sea. If that's the case then perhaps we should bring Calzaghe into the convo?

Think before you type Sparky. Honestly you Mayweather fans are so easy to discredit it's a joke.

Next.


Cut the redneck act. How old are you, if you've read anything in a mature and consistent manner then you would've been able to see my point of view. You have an opinion and so do I. Just because I defend my opinion doesn't make me a dominant floyd fan and just because i seem to disagree with your views on manny in some ways...doesn't make me a pac hater. I like both. I like Hopkins as well, I just favor Floyd in this particular arguement. And I do believe Castillo beat Floyd the first fight and he came back and won the rematch. I don't and will Not give him credit for the JMM fight because I don't feel he's beaten him...YET. Once again this is my "opinion". When I said I stated "facts" is when I like you and many posters as you put it agree that Mayweather lost to Castillo. Or the draws and losses for manny and b hop. separate the 2 and pay attn friend. I'm not going to go back in forth with you if you can't bother to read and asess what I am saying in an accurate manner. I'm a fan ofall 3 of these great fighters and it's just an opnion devised of "facts". Good day to you Mr Fan Club
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STEVENSKI
post Aug 17 2011, 06:09 PM
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There is one man who can settle this debate & his word is final. Where is Jonnys Trainer?
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Guest_Fitz_*
post Aug 17 2011, 06:15 PM
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Give me Hopkins.
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The Ollie Reed F...
post Aug 17 2011, 06:22 PM
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QUOTE (mrchitown @ Aug 17 2011, 07:03 PM) *
Cut the redneck act.


Please point out to me the 'redneck'posts I've made on the subject. I'm curious I really am. As to the rest of your post, I read it once (which was once too much) and couldn't understand a syllable of it. It was all over the place like a mad woman having a shit.

Now focus Mr Town and give us something intelligable!

I'd still like you to address the fights which you think are Floyd's greatest wins and how they rank over Hopkons or Pac's greatest wins. I've been quite clear I think 7 fights and only 1 loss to the 3 Mexicans trumps anything Floyd has done, De la Hoya included.

Same with Hopkins wins over Trinidad, Wright, Pavlik and Tarver. Again the only fighter I can put in that category for Floyd is Fishnets. I would put Castillo and Corrales probably in the Pavlik type category. Pretty good fighters with some great wins but peppered with a few too many losses to be ATG's.

Sure Hopkins lost a close disputed decision to Calzaghe but whom has Floyd fought in the last 5 years that was as good as Calzaghe?

If you don't want to go back and forth fine, but at least alert me to my redneck posts will you champ?
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sduck
post Aug 17 2011, 06:24 PM
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Yawn, I don't listen to haters, they're all the same to me. Hypocrites. Let's try to settle this in a non-biased fashion shall we? Let's look at and compare their notable resumes from 2000-2009.

Mayweather
1) Vargas - Moved down a weight class. 40-6 Coming off a reign of wins, Mayweather dominated and retained the WBC Super Featherweight title.
2) Augustus - Coming off a win, but a reign of losses. Mayweather moved up a weight class, came from a year hiatus, and KO'd Augustus and retained the WBC Super Featherweight title.
3) Corrales - Undefeated 33-0. Mayweather destroyed Corrales and retained the WBC Super Featherweight title.
4) C. Hernandez - Was 34-2 coming off a reign of wins. Mayweather broke both his hands half-way through the fight, still dominated and retained the WBC Super Featherweight title.
5) Chavez - Was 35-1 coming off a large reign of wins. Mayweather dominated him and retained the WBC Super Featherweight title.
6) Castillo 1 - Coming off wins, both fighters made weight transitions. Mayweather won a controversial UD, winning the WBC Lightweight and The Ring Lightweight World titles. Many feel like Castillo won this fight. Mayweather complained of an arm injury.
7) Castillo 2 - Mayweather shutdown all criticism by beating Castillo in a clear dominating fashion. Mayweather retained the WBC and The Ring Lightweight titles.
8) Sosa - Was 35-2 coming off wins. Mayweather dominated him to retain the WBC and The Ring Lightweight titles.
9) N'dou - 30-1 coming off a large reign of wins. Mayweather KO'd him, retaining the WBC and The Ring Lightweight titles.
-) Corley - Coming off a SD defeat to Judah losing the WBO light welterweight title. Mayweather wins in a dominating fashion for his first fight at Super Lightweight, for the WBC Super Lightweight Eliminator... opinion if you want to give him credit or not.
10) Bruseless - Not a very impressive fighter, but coming off wins. Mayweather KO'd him for the WBC Super Lightweight Eliminator.
11) Gatti - In many wars, but coming off wins. Mayweather KO'd him and won the WBC Super Lightweight title.
12) Mitchell - 56-4, coming off a TD victory and a TKO loss to Tszyu beforehand. Mayweather KO's Mitchell for his first fight at Welterweight.
-) Judah - Coming off a UD Decision loss to Baldomir, losing the WBC Welterweight title. Mayweather dominates him and wins the IBF and IBO World Welterweight titles... opinion if you want to give him credit or not.
13) Baldomir - Coming off a large reign of victories. Mayweather dominates him and retained the IBO Welterweight title, and won the WBC, IBA, and The Ring Welterweight titles.
14) De La Hoya - Coming out of retirement with a KO victory over Mayorga. Mayweather's first fight at Super Welterweight. Mayweather wins to attain the WBC Super Welterweight title.
15) Hatton - Undefeated 43-0. Both fighters made weight transitions. Mayweather KO'd him to retain the WBC and The Ring Welterweight titles.
-) Marquez - Coming off two dominating victories and a SD defeat to Pacquiao beforehand. Moved up two weight classes; fought at a catch-weight. Non-title fight. Mayweather came out of a 2 year retirement and dominated him.

Pacquiao
1) Barotillo - Not an impressive fighter but coming off wins. Pacquiao KO'd him to retain the WBC Super Bantamweight International title.
2) Chae - Was 23-0 undefeated. Pacquiao KO'd him to retain the WBC Super Bantamweight International title.
3) Hussein - Was 19-0 undefeated. Pacquiao KO'd him to retain the WBC Super Bantamweight International title.
-) Senrima - Coming off a UD loss for the Japanese Super Bantamweight title. Pacquiao KO'd him retained the WBC Super Bantamweight International title... opinion if you want to give him credit or not.
4) Sakmuangklang - Was 33-2 Coming off wins. Pacquiao KO'd him, retaining the WBC Super Bantamweight International title.
5) Ledwaba - Was 33-1 coming off a large reign of wins. Pacquiao KO'd him winning the IBF Super Bantamweight World title.
-) Sanchez - Fight concluded to a TD draw.
6) Julio - Was 44-3 coming off two wins, but two losses beforehand. Pacquiao KO'd him retaining the IBF Super Bantamweight World title.
7) Rakkiatgym - Was 37-2 coming off a large reign of wins. Pacquiao KO'd him retaining the IBF Super Bantamweight World title.
-) Yeshmagambetov - Not an impressive fighter, coming off a TKO victory, but a UD loss beforehand. Pacquiao KO'd him in a non-title fight.
8) Lucero - Was 21-0 undefeated. Pacquiao KO'd him retaining the IBF Super Bantamweight title.
9) Barrera 1 - Coming off wins. Pacquiao's first fight at Featherweight. Pacquiao dominated him and won The Ring Featherweight title.
-) Marquez 1 - Both fighters coming off a reign of wins. Fight concluded to a controversial draw. Fight was for the WBA and IBF Featherweight World titles.
10) Thawatchai - Was 44-7 coming off a draw, win, and loss. Pacquiao KO'd him to retain The Ring Featherweight title.
-) Morales 1 - Came off a MD loss to Barrera and lost the WBC Super Featherweight title. Pacquiao moved up a weight class. Pacquiao is dominated and loses to Morales. Pacquiao made many complaints. Fight was for Vacant WBC International and IBA Super Featherweight titles.
11) Velazquez - Not a very impressive fighter but coming off wins. Pacquiao KOs him and wins the Vacant WBC Super Featherweight International title.
-) Morales 2 - Came off a dominating title fight loss to Raheem. Weight-drained from moving down a weight class. Pacquiao KO'd him to retain the WBC Super Featherweight International title.
-) Larios - Came off a KO defeat. Pacquiao dominates him to retain the WBC Super Featherweight International title.
-) Morales 3 - Fought right after Morales 2. Pacquiao KO'd him this time in 3 rounds to retain the WBC Super Featherweight International title... opinion if you want to give him credit or not.
12) Solis - Was 33-0 Undefeated. Moved up a weight class. Pacquiao KO'd him to retain the WBC Super Featherweight International title.
-) Barrera 2 - Coming off a dominating UD defeat to Marquez and lost the WBC Super Featherweight title. Pacquiao dominates him and retains the WBC Super Featherweight International title.
13) Marquez 2 - Pacquiao wins by a one-point SD victory, winning the WBC and The Ring Super Featherweight titles. Most people felt Marquez won the fight, in almost a dominating fashion.
14) Diaz - Was 34-1 coming off wins. Pacquiao moved up a weight class. Pacquiao KO'd him, winning the WBC Lightweight title.
-) De La Hoya - Coming off a win, but a defeat to Mayweather beforehand. A non-title fight at a catch-weight; DLH was dehydrated and weight-drained. Pacquiao wins by KO.
15) Hatton - Came off two dominating victories, even though losing an undefeated battle to Mayweather beforehand. Pacquiao moved down a weight class. Pacquiao KO'd Hatton and won the IBO and The Ring Light Welterweight titles.
16) Cotto - Came off a TKO and SD victory, even though was TKO'd by Margarito beforehand. Fought at a catch-weight, but it benifited no fighter. Pacquiao moved up a weight class. Pacquiao dominated and won the WBO Welterweight title, and the WBC Daimond belt.

Hopkins
1) Echols - Not a very impressive fighter but coming off wins, Hopkins KO'd him to retain the IBF Middleweight title.
2) Holmes - Coming off wins, Hopkins dominated him to retain the IBF Middleweight title, and win the WBC Middleweight title.
3) Trinidad - Trinidad was 40-0 undefeated, but was dominated by Hopkins. Hopkins retained the IBF and WBC Middleweight titles, and won the WBA Super World Middleweight title.
4) Daniels - Coming off wins, Hopkins KO'd him, retaining the IBF, WBC, and WBA titles.
5) Hakkar - Coming off a defeat to Sanavia, but destroyed him in a rematch... Hopkins KO'd him, and retained the IBF, WBC, and WBA titles.
6) Joppy - Was KO'd by Trinidad beforehand, but came off two victories, one of them a KO, another against a 32-0 undefeated fighter. Hopkins retained the IBF, WBC, and WBA titles.
7) Allen - Coming off wins. Hopkins dominated and retained the IBF, WBC, and WBA Middleweight titles.
8) De La Hoya - Coming off a defeat to Mosley, and a UD victory over Sturm for his first fight at Middleweight. Hopkins KO'd DLH and retained the IBF, WBC, and WBA Middleweight titles, and won the WBO Middleweight title. Most people felt Sturm was robbed by DLH.
9) Eastman - Impressive fighter from Guyana, coming off a reign of victories. Hopkins dominated him and retained the IBF, WBC, WBA, and WBO Middleweight titles.
-) Taylor 1 - Undefeated 23-0, defeated Hopkins in a SD victory. Hopkins lost the IBF, WBC, WBA, and WBO Middleweight titles.
-) Taylor 2 - Once again defeating Hopkins, this time by a UD victory.
10) Tarver - Coming off two dominating victories. Hopkins dominated him and won the IBO and The Ring Light Heavyweight titles.
11) Wright - Coming off a reign of victories. Hopkins dominated him and retained The Ring Light Heavyweight titles.
-) Calzaghe - Undefeated 44-0, defeated Hopkins in a SD victory. Hopkins lost The Ring Light Heavywight title.
12) Pavlik - Undefeated 34-0, fought at a catch-weight in favor of Pavlik. Pavlik was dominated by Hopkins.
-) Ornelas - Ornelas coming off a KO victory, but a SD loss beforehand. Ornelas moved up a weight class. Non-title fight.

Showdown: Mayweather - Pacquiao - Hopkins
Record: 15-0 - 16-1-2 - 12-3 - Mayweather
Record in Title Fights: 13-0 - 16-1-2 - 11-3 - Mayweather
Titles Owned(Any "title"): 10 - 10 - 6 - Mayweather/Pacquiao
Weight Class Transitions(Including fluctuation): 7 - 8 - 1 - Pacquiao
Undefeated Fights(Regardless of who won): 2 - 3 - 5 - Hopkins
Longest Running Champion: 7 years - 9 years - 4 years - Pacquiao

Score: 3 - 3 - 1 - Draw: Mayweather/Pacquiao

If more things were included like "Most Money Earned". Mayweather would be the winner.

This post has been edited by sduck: Aug 17 2011, 06:34 PM
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