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> AweTV:Froch vs. Groves@3PM(ET)/12PM(PT)-SPOILERS, Update: IBF Mandates Rematch (Page 7, Post 61)
checkleft
post Nov 30 2013, 10:10 PM
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QUOTE (mgrover @ Nov 29 2013, 10:23 PM) *
Hes knowhere near as gone as Shane, Toney or RJJ. But yeah he's getting schooled by Ward.

Exactly, if they fight again ward should bill him for units attempted. Dude would put on a sesh

QUOTE (mrchitown @ Nov 30 2013, 01:04 PM) *
To me he is because he doesn't have 3% of their talent at his highest point in his career. The reason their so far past it is because they keep fighting. Froch will be the same way if he keeps fighting

Or the hgh

I'm gonna have to go the other way on this chi. Froch is not a supremely talented or skilled individual like these guys were. Froch is already pretty old and he is still competing, his decline may come slower because he doesn't have thesort of gifts or skills these other dudes had in their respective primes.

let's face it Roy was supernatural, Mosley wasn't far from it he had nearly everything except the defense, and toney was a maverick with his D and counters. Froch is just awkward and has a good chin
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mgrover
post Nov 30 2013, 10:18 PM
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QUOTE (checkleft @ Dec 1 2013, 03:10 AM) *
Exactly, if they fight again ward should bill him for units attempted. Dude would put on a sesh


Or the hgh

I'm gonna have to go the other way on this chi. Froch is not a supremely talented or skilled individual like these guys were. Froch is already pretty old and he is still competing, his decline may come slower because he doesn't have thesort of gifts or skills these other dudes had in their respective primes.

let's face it Roy was supernatural, Mosley wasn't far from it he had nearly everything except the defense, and toney was a maverick with his D and counters. Froch is just awkward and has a good chin


You do have a point, he was never fast, never flashy, never had that one punch KO power, he does what he always does, lose the first half usually, throw hard body shots and slow people down. It's what happened to Groves, he was taking some hard body shots that Froch put a lot of momentum in, then Groves clinched, and by that time it was too late.
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checkleft
post Nov 30 2013, 11:04 PM
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QUOTE (mgrover @ Nov 30 2013, 11:18 PM) *
You do have a point, he was never fast, never flashy, never had that one punch KO power, he does what he always does, lose the first half usually, throw hard body shots and slow people down. It's what happened to Groves, he was taking some hard body shots that Froch put a lot of momentum in, then Groves clinched, and by that time it was too late.

Yea that's why I always call him throwback. Nothing flashy
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mrchitown
post Nov 30 2013, 11:15 PM
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QUOTE (checkleft @ Nov 30 2013, 09:10 PM) *
Exactly, if they fight again ward should bill him for units attempted. Dude would put on a sesh


Or the hgh

I'm gonna have to go the other way on this chi. Froch is not a supremely talented or skilled individual like these guys were. Froch is already pretty old and he is still competing, his decline may come slower because he doesn't have thesort of gifts or skills these other dudes had in their respective primes.

let's face it Roy was supernatural, Mosley wasn't far from it he had nearly everything except the defense, and toney was a maverick with his D and counters. Froch is just awkward and has a good chin


When decline comes it comes. Slow or no slow, it's appeared in him. Groves was on his way to a W. Froch is not beating Ward at any point. He should give a rematch to Groves. If he was confident in his abilities then he wouldn't be talking about one more fight and riding off into the sunset. He's not athletic like the guys I mentioned and that's his problem. Froch lost to Dirrell imo, he was on his way to losing to Taylor until Taylor gassed, Kessler beat him the first time, Ward snatched his soul. He's been in tough fights and even some of the ones he's won like Dirrell and Groves he looked like shit.

His lack of natural ability and average talent has caught up with him. He's not the fastest or the most flashy etc. but athletes improve everyday. The game is passing him by, that's why he's in trouble. Those fighters I mentioned had big wins past their prime because they had natural ability...Carl doesn't, I doubt Froch can. If he goes up to 175 he gets pasted. If he fights once more he should just cash himself out and retire. Groves would get my vote to win in a rematch, so would Ward. I'm trying to think who he could beat at SMW from hear on out and I'm drawing blanks. You fight to win not to compete
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checkleft
post Dec 1 2013, 01:21 AM
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QUOTE (mrchitown @ Dec 1 2013, 12:15 AM) *
When decline comes it comes. Slow or no slow, it's appeared in him. Groves was on his way to a W. Froch is not beating Ward at any point. He should give a rematch to Groves. If he was confident in his abilities then he wouldn't be talking about one more fight and riding off into the sunset. He's not athletic like the guys I mentioned and that's his problem. Froch lost to Dirrell imo, he was on his way to losing to Taylor until Taylor gassed, Kessler beat him the first time, Ward snatched his soul. He's been in tough fights and even some of the ones he's won like Dirrell and Groves he looked like shit.

His lack of natural ability and average talent has caught up with him. He's not the fastest or the most flashy etc. but athletes improve everyday. The game is passing him by, that's why he's in trouble. Those fighters I mentioned had big wins past their prime because they had natural ability...Carl doesn't, I doubt Froch can. If he goes up to 175 he gets pasted. If he fights once more he should just cash himself out and retire. Groves would get my vote to win in a rematch, so would Ward. I'm trying to think who he could beat at SMW from hear on out and I'm drawing blanks. You fight to win not to compete

No reason to be angry at him chi lol. Not only is he competing he is winning! Just a few fights ago he knocked out a guy ward was literally avoiding for no reason. An untested guy he could have easily schooled and cashed in on in a growing boxing market. Yea the guy isn't flashy or a freak. But he doesn't shy away, and he comes to win every single night.

The guy has two losses, one to a top two pound for pound fighter, and your acting like he just got laid flat like pac and needs to retire. He just stopped a guy and doing good damage late in the fight while concussed after a hard kd in the first. This dude has had bad performances before and came back. Can't just write dude off like that. Fighters get caught, they get knocked out, they look like shit, its how they come back that tells you if they should keep on going or not.

Save the "hang em up" conversations for rose Chi! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/taunt.gif)



This post has been edited by checkleft: Dec 1 2013, 01:23 AM
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mrchitown
post Dec 1 2013, 05:12 PM
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QUOTE (checkleft @ Dec 1 2013, 12:21 AM) *
No reason to be angry at him chi lol. Not only is he competing he is winning! Just a few fights ago he knocked out a guy ward was literally avoiding for no reason. An untested guy he could have easily schooled and cashed in on in a growing boxing market. Yea the guy isn't flashy or a freak. But he doesn't shy away, and he comes to win every single night.

The guy has two losses, one to a top two pound for pound fighter, and your acting like he just got laid flat like pac and needs to retire. He just stopped a guy and doing good damage late in the fight while concussed after a hard kd in the first. This dude has had bad performances before and came back. Can't just write dude off like that. Fighters get caught, they get knocked out, they look like shit, its how they come back that tells you if they should keep on going or not.

Save the "hang em up" conversations for rose Chi! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/taunt.gif)


I'll derail the thread just to entertain you for a minute...just like the idiot in your sig I see you lack a bit of intelligence (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) Your from Cali too right. The best thing about cali is the Clips and they have a suspected ped user in CP3. Who is now the leader of the players union and low and behold he's threatening to take the league to court because he and some other NBA players don't want testing for peds. He hasn't accomplished shit in his career, he's the best regular season PG in the league. Like Deron Williams he can't cut it in the playoffs. Lakers ain't shit and the Warriors have shitty defense. My squad still has a top defense and has had sucess without their greatest player. Take Paul off that team and they trash. That team ain't going nowhere either lol

I'm insulted that you would even compare Froch to Derrick, it's laughable lol....but let's look at facts. CP3, Wade, and more had the same injury and chose to cut their meniscus meaning their careers will be cut short. Now Blake, and Westbrook and somebody else whose name escapes me had theirs reattached and look at their play and Rose had the same thing dine and had it reattached. You've fell of the mark with your taunt lol. Derrick will be fine, nobody's worried about that

Now back to the topic. He's had some good bounces go his way. He had to claw back to beat a washed Jermain Taylor, he got the best homecooked meal against Dirrell, and Groves was on his way to a win imo before the controversial stoppage. You want me to believe in a guy whose always been ordinary still having success being ordinary. Name the fighters who he beats. He won't beat a Chavez jr, a Golovkin, a Ward, a Hopkins, a Kovalev or a Stevenson...he talks legacy...whose he going to beat?

Froch has done nothing for me to be angry with him, I just recognize he's nothing special. I'm not going to sugercoat anything. He has the warrior mentality but all warriors fall. I don't think he's a top dog anymore, maybe he proves me wrong maybe he doesn't. I'm rarely wrong though so I'm going with my initial prediction. And why am I giving him credit for a win against Bute and even you admit he was untested? Pass lol..the guy has contributed a lot to the sport but his time has seem to come

This post has been edited by mrchitown: Dec 1 2013, 05:14 PM
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checkleft
post Dec 1 2013, 05:57 PM
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QUOTE (mrchitown @ Dec 1 2013, 06:12 PM) *
I'll derail the thread just to entertain you for a minute...just like the idiot in your sig I see you lack a bit of intelligence (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) Your from Cali too right. The best thing about cali is the Clips and they have a suspected ped user in CP3. Who is now the leader of the players union and low and behold he's threatening to take the league to court because he and some other NBA players don't want testing for peds. He hasn't accomplished shit in his career, he's the best regular season PG in the league. Like Deron Williams he can't cut it in the playoffs. Lakers ain't shit and the Warriors have shitty defense. My squad still has a top defense and has had sucess without their greatest player. Take Paul off that team and they trash. That team ain't going nowhere either lol

I'm insulted that you would even compare Froch to Derrick, it's laughable lol....but let's look at facts. CP3, Wade, and more had the same injury and chose to cut their meniscus meaning their careers will be cut short. Now Blake, and Westbrook and somebody else whose name escapes me had theirs reattached and look at their play and Rose had the same thing dine and had it reattached. You've fell of the mark with your taunt lol. Derrick will be fine, nobody's worried about that

Now back to the topic. He's had some good bounces go his way. He had to claw back to beat a washed Jermain Taylor, he got the best homecooked meal against Dirrell, and Groves was on his way to a win imo before the controversial stoppage. You want me to believe in a guy whose always been ordinary still having success being ordinary. Name the fighters who he beats. He won't beat a Chavez jr, a Golovkin, a Ward, a Hopkins, a Kovalev or a Stevenson...he talks legacy...whose he going to beat?

Froch has done nothing for me to be angry with him, I just recognize he's nothing special. I'm not going to sugercoat anything. He has the warrior mentality but all warriors fall. I don't think he's a top dog anymore, maybe he proves me wrong maybe he doesn't. I'm rarely wrong though so I'm going with my initial prediction. And why am I giving him credit for a win against Bute and even you admit he was untested? Pass lol..the guy has contributed a lot to the sport but his time has seem to come

You were on point with all the cali teams you mentioned but I'm proud to say I've always been a kings fan. But more importantly I'm a hooper, I love basketball. So I'm not scared to say my own team is on the outside looking in.

But you guys have a solid D, and a great cast for a star player. But if you guys weren't in the east man that team would be bottom feeders. Last year they made a respectable effort I like the gritty team they are just like the grizz. But rose is not on the rise anymore, I was just fucking with you cause I know your a Chicago fan through and through but rose will never be the same. Sad to see

But by no means was I comparing him to froch bra, I was simply pointing out rose might be closer to the end of his rope than the cobra at the pace his knees are getting cut and pasted. Let's face it the guy was a natural freak with a subpar jumper, without his bounce and charge he isnt gonna have those advantages over other guys anymore. It sucks cause the guy was a highlight machine but its part of the game.

Sort of like how its part of boxing that sometimes you have bad performances or even losses, shit Carl was counted out against lucian and put it on him so bad bute didn't even want his rematch clause. Like you said the guy isn't anything special, but fuck call me crazy, that's what I like sometimes about fighters! That's throwback, Danny Garcia for example, timothy Bradley. These guys work with what they got and fuck peoples plans up. Everybody talks about broner, ggg, Gary Russell. I know it sounds disrespectful but if these guys had half the fire of a Bradley or Garcia or froch they would ALREADY be sitting pretty as elite young talent. It might be easy to dismiss a fighter due to his flaws but its would be stupid to ignore their will and determinantion. Sometimes that alone wins you fights

What's that KD quote he always says " hard work beats talent, when talent doesn't work hard"?
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mgrover
post Dec 1 2013, 07:00 PM
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QUOTE (mrchitown @ Dec 1 2013, 10:12 PM) *
He won't beat a Chavez jr


Chavez jr is tailor made for a guy like Froch. No ability to box at all, plods forward, it's simple a fight of whose the bigger badder man.
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mrchitown
post Dec 1 2013, 09:23 PM
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QUOTE (mgrover @ Dec 1 2013, 06:00 PM) *
Chavez jr is tailor made for a guy like Froch. No ability to box at all, plods forward, it's simple a fight of whose the bigger badder man.


I give it 50/50...people give Carl the iron chin label and he's been rocked many many times. If JCC Jr connects cleanly it's over. But Froch ain't afraid to get in their and make it dirty. I can see him frustrating JCC Jr but at this point I'd pick Julio(if he can actually make weight)
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mrchitown
post Dec 1 2013, 09:38 PM
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QUOTE (checkleft @ Dec 1 2013, 04:57 PM) *
You were on point with all the cali teams you mentioned but I'm proud to say I've always been a kings fan. But more importantly I'm a hooper, I love basketball. So I'm not scared to say my own team is on the outside looking in.

But you guys have a solid D, and a great cast for a star player. But if you guys weren't in the east man that team would be bottom feeders. Last year they made a respectable effort I like the gritty team they are just like the grizz. But rose is not on the rise anymore, I was just fucking with you cause I know your a Chicago fan through and through but rose will never be the same. Sad to see

But by no means was I comparing him to froch bra, I was simply pointing out rose might be closer to the end of his rope than the cobra at the pace his knees are getting cut and pasted. Let's face it the guy was a natural freak with a subpar jumper, without his bounce and charge he isnt gonna have those advantages over other guys anymore. It sucks cause the guy was a highlight machine but its part of the game.

Sort of like how its part of boxing that sometimes you have bad performances or even losses, shit Carl was counted out against lucian and put it on him so bad bute didn't even want his rematch clause. Like you said the guy isn't anything special, but fuck call me crazy, that's what I like sometimes about fighters! That's throwback, Danny Garcia for example, timothy Bradley. These guys work with what they got and fuck peoples plans up. Everybody talks about broner, ggg, Gary Russell. I know it sounds disrespectful but if these guys had half the fire of a Bradley or Garcia or froch they would ALREADY be sitting pretty as elite young talent. It might be easy to dismiss a fighter due to his flaws but its would be stupid to ignore their will and determinantion. Sometimes that alone wins you fights

What's that KD quote he always says " hard work beats talent, when talent doesn't work hard"?


The same KD who came up short against Lebron whose talent +hard work got him 2 rings. Brian Scalibrine worked hard and who the hell remembers him lol...take what athletes like Kd say with a grain of salt. Talent isn't shit without hard work. Skills pay the bills and those are the ones who are the ATG's not just someone who worked hard. You need more then hard work to be at an elite level


I liked Sacramento when they had white chocolate and C-Webb and later on Bibby. think they got cheated out a few rings like Portland back in the day. Don't get me started on that but as of today they will go nowhere as long as that headcase Demarcus is on their team, he's a cancer. A lot of talent but no maturity....and who says Derrick isn't going to ave what you claim, maybe your trolling me or just trying to prove a point but if you think a freakish athlete whose not even 26 and still growing and has mental strength is on the way out while an ordinary beaten and battered 30 plus fighter is somehow going on then I guess you are crazy. Derrick isn't a was he's an is, Froch is up for debate. His injury was a freak accidnet and it sucks because he was getting his rhythm back. As far as us being bottom feeders, I'm not on board with that when the best defenses play in the east. The Bulls, the Heat, and the Pacers. Defense when championships not seeding

Who says Gennady or Gary or an Adrien don't have the fire. I've very rarely seen the determination you speak of beat natural ability. Look at the fighters, the TOP fighters between 168-175 and pick out the names of them he can beat, the list is small imo. It is what it is, I call it how I see it. Never in the history of sports has an ordinary Joe just gone on after looking regular to go back up. People were on Bute's hype train, I was glad when Froch won, people thought he would get KO'd but he turned the tables. I'm not counting him out I'm simply professing a difference of opinion. He's had a run of great opposition just like Ward but that warrior shit only lasts so long. IMO it's Ward then it's everybody else. I look at the top dogs in and around his weight class and I think he puts up a competitive fight but doesn't win many of them

This post has been edited by mrchitown: Dec 1 2013, 09:40 PM
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