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> Boxing Opinions..., you're probably in the minority!
Jack 1000
post Aug 8 2010, 03:39 PM
Post #21


The Consultant


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Minority opinions,

Harold Lederman and I both having Alexander ahead comfortably against Kotilnik

The same is true for us having Williams slightly ahead in the first Quintana fight.

Both of us having Mayweather-Castillo II very close. I carded a draw, agreeing on all of Harold's rounds but round 4, which he gave to Floyd.

But what is interesting is that in those cases of opinion dissension, the official judges who count, say what we saw in the Mayweather-Castillo rematch and in the Alexander-Kotilnik fights. For whatever reason, we aren't alone.

There aren't too many other opposing views for me. I can cite cases where Harold has been terrible in scoring AND the judges agreed with his bad scoring. He had Leonard-Hearns II a DRAW, as did the judges, a fight that Hearns should have won by 2-4 points. The knockdowns should have been big differences in the official scoring, they weren't.

Here's a few cases where Harold has really been bad.

Harold having Barrera up something like 117-111 against Morales in the first fight. I would have had that fight as a one-point win for Barrera, but did not count the 12th round kd as a 10-8. (That was a slip.)

I think I remember having Pazienza-Garza close back in the 90's with the point deductions being the thing that made the fight not close. The fight was in Garza's hometown and the ref kept taking points away from Vinnie for small things and eventually DQ'd him. But that was so long ago, it is hard for me to remember.

I know at least once, Sean O'Grady called a fight where he said a boxer was dominating in a match that I had extremely close, as did his broadcast partner, I don't think it was Al Albert, and I can't remember what fight it was.

I saw Tony Tucker beating Orlin Noris and so did everyone else who was watching with me. Ferdie Pacheco kept going on and on about how Norris was dominating as Tucker kept snapping his head back with jabs and getting better on the exchanges. Tucker won a split decision and Ferdie was just dumbfounded.

This is such a great topic! Let's here your dissenting views where your fight views differed from the majority.

Jack

PS. How about some fights where everyone has a different take on who won as well, but they are labeled controversial by those who saw them?

Trinidad-Delahoya
Mosley-Delahoya II
Taylor-Hopkins I and II
Leonard-Hagler

I know this will never happen, but maybe a return to 15-round fights would resolve some of this "who really won?" debate in these current 12-round limit 6-6, 7-5 for either guy split scores. Or having one guy ahead comfortably and another group has the same fight very close.
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PR316
post Aug 8 2010, 03:52 PM
Post #22


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QUOTE (D-MARV @ Aug 8 2010, 11:30 AM) *
LOL... I disagree with EVERYTHING in this post.


LOL...

Thats means we got some major debating to do. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drinks.gif)
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The CEO
post Aug 8 2010, 04:19 PM
Post #23


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1. Ricky Hatton should have been DQed against Kostya Tszyu.

2. Corrales-Castillo 1 would have been better if Corrales hadn't spat out his mouthpiece.

3. Both Klitschko brothers should be considered ATGs at Heavyweight.

4. Joshua Clottey was directed/paid to lay down against Manny Pacquiao.

5. My rankings are better than Ring Magazine's.

6. Edwin Valero would have eventually been exposed.

7. James Kirkland will eventually be exposed...
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Mean Mister Must...
post Aug 8 2010, 04:49 PM
Post #24


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QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ Aug 8 2010, 04:39 PM) *
Minority opinions,

Harold Lederman and I both having Alexander ahead comfortably against Kotilnik

The same is true for us having Williams slightly ahead in the first Quintana fight.

Both of us having Mayweather-Castillo II very close. I carded a draw, agreeing on all of Harold's rounds but round 4, which he gave to Floyd.

But what is interesting is that in those cases of opinion dissension, the official judges who count, say what we saw in the Mayweather-Castillo rematch and in the Alexander-Kotilnik fights. For whatever reason, we aren't alone.

There aren't too many other opposing views for me. I can cite cases where Harold has been terrible in scoring AND the judges agreed with his bad scoring. He had Leonard-Hearns II a DRAW, as did the judges, a fight that Hearns should have won by 2-4 points. The knockdowns should have been big differences in the official scoring, they weren't.

Here's a few cases where Harold has really been bad.

Harold having Barrera up something like 117-111 against Morales in the first fight. I would have had that fight as a one-point win for Barrera, but did not count the 12th round kd as a 10-8. (That was a slip.)

I think I remember having Pazienza-Garza close back in the 90's with the point deductions being the thing that made the fight not close. The fight was in Garza's hometown and the ref kept taking points away from Vinnie for small things and eventually DQ'd him. But that was so long ago, it is hard for me to remember.

I know at least once, Sean O'Grady called a fight where he said a boxer was dominating in a match that I had extremely close, as did his broadcast partner, I don't think it was Al Albert, and I can't remember what fight it was.

I saw Tony Tucker beating Orlin Noris and so did everyone else who was watching with me. Ferdie Pacheco kept going on and on about how Norris was dominating as Tucker kept snapping his head back with jabs and getting better on the exchanges. Tucker won a split decision and Ferdie was just dumbfounded.

This is such a great topic! Let's here your dissenting views where your fight views differed from the majority.

Jack

PS. How about some fights where everyone has a different take on who won as well, but they are labeled controversial by those who saw them?

Trinidad-Delahoya
Mosley-Delahoya II
Taylor-Hopkins I and II
Leonard-Hagler

I know this will never happen, but maybe a return to 15-round fights would resolve some of this "who really won?" debate in these current 12-round limit 6-6, 7-5 for either guy split scores. Or having one guy ahead comfortably and another group has the same fight very close.


Jack, regarding Barerra-Morales I; Barerra was landing the cleaner shots, both to the head and body and while Morales appeared to be busier a lot of his shots were being blocked or smothered. Similar to what happened between Alexander and Kotelnik. I guess it comes down to what the judges prefer and in last night's case, the hometown fighter was going to get the benefit of the doubt.

As to the Leonard-Hearns rematch, remember that Leonard himself said Hearns should have won.
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Jack 1000
post Aug 8 2010, 05:32 PM
Post #25


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QUOTE (The CEO @ Aug 8 2010, 04:19 PM) *
1. Ricky Hatton should have been DQed against Kostya Tszyu.

2. Corrales-Castillo 1 would have been better if Corrales hadn't spat out his mouthpiece.

3. Both Klitschko brothers should be considered ATGs at Heavyweight.

4. Joshua Clottey was directed/paid to lay down against Manny Pacquiao.

5. My rankings are better than Ring Magazine's.

6. Edwin Valero would have eventually been exposed.

7. James Kirkland will eventually be exposed...



Good stuff!!!

I agree with #4!

I don't know, I think Ben might revoke your mod status if he read your #3! hahahahahaha!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Jack
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gravytrain
post Aug 8 2010, 06:15 PM
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I don't think Clottey took a dive, I think Clottey didn't care. Stylistically Clottey was bound to lose. Clottey has never stepped it up in a fight, he's had numerous chances to be a real force in the division and he quit on himself. He's also notorious for being unable to transition from defense to offense when the pressure is on him, he'll just cover up and take 10 shots then throw 1-2 back. Couple that with the biggest payday of his career and he's bound to just smile and collect the check.
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The Ollie Reed F...
post Aug 8 2010, 07:10 PM
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I KNOW I am in the minority when I say Tua beat Ibeabuchi 7 rounds to 5.
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JonnyBlaze
post Aug 8 2010, 09:10 PM
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QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Aug 8 2010, 07:10 PM) *
I KNOW I am in the minority when I say Tua beat Ibeabuchi 7 rounds to 5.

Of course you did since he's from New Zealand..haha..Just playin..

That fight was amazing..It was close but I thought Ike beat him by volume and connects..I wouldn't argue with anyone if they thought Tua won..The fight was close..
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The Ollie Reed F...
post Aug 8 2010, 09:17 PM
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QUOTE (JonnyBlaze @ Aug 8 2010, 10:10 PM) *
Of course you did since he's from New Zealand..haha..Just playin..

That fight was amazing..It was close but I thought Ike beat him by volume and connects..I wouldn't argue with anyone if they thought Tua won..The fight was close..


Being from New Zealand I've watched that fight a few times..............ha ha.

I'm not so pro-Tua that I don't know when he got lucky (both Rahman fights and prolly his latest fight against Barrett) but I will go to my grave believing he won that fight. I gave Ike the first 5 rounds and David the last 7 rounds. I thought Tua landed the harder punches and had Ike buzzed a couple of times although the level of punishment that both guys took was incredible.

Interestingly I read an interview with Ronnie Shields maybe 2 years ago and that is one fight that still gets under his skin as a trainer. Like me he saw that fight 7 to 5 and said looking back he wouldn't change a thing, except the obvious, a Tua KO or the desicion going his way. To this day he still can't believe that Tua didn't get the nod in that fight.

A good thread to post in though as I def. know I am in the minority on this one. Just me and Ronnie. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
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Keith
post Aug 8 2010, 09:51 PM
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QUOTE (The CEO @ Aug 8 2010, 05:19 PM) *
3. Both Klitschko brothers should be considered ATGs at Heavyweight.


Agree.

Their competition has been subpar but they have treated them as subpar for an extended period of time. And I still maintain that either one of them would give any ATG hw a hard time.

Other possible minority opinions I have...

1. I liked the open announced scoring that was used a few years ago.

2. Maidana is the best jr. welter.

3. Gamboa beats anyone 135 and below.

4. Pac is using ped's.

5. There should be a super hw division.
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