IPB  

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

 
10 Pages V  « < 6 7 8 9 10 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> HBO Boxing Production Values in the Crapper!
Cshel86
post Jul 15 2013, 12:38 PM
Post #71


"The Meanest Nice Guy"


Group: Moderators
Posts: 12,211
Joined: 11-May 11
From: Wherever Greatness is Bred
Member No.: 12,050



QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jul 12 2013, 06:29 PM) *
seriously....wtf is up with hbo???

alvarado beats rios....rios gets shot at pacquiao....hbo is airing it.

rigondeaux beats donaire....they don't want him on their network....they're bringing back donaire against darchinyan. really!?

they're trying to for alvarado to fight prodnikov....he's standing his ground and asking for what he's worth. good job.

HBO's bias and disgusting emotions, is killing them slowly. It's really getting sad at this point. I can somewhat understand the Rios/Pac situation...that was done for money and PPV sales. Now, the Rigondeaux situation is vomitrocious, and every inch of the word.

I mean seriously, Donaire isn't as great as they projected, he got his ass kicked, get over it. But noooo...they want to play the angry ex-wife card, and stick it to the public. It's not our fault that Donaire was clueless, and got handled. I wouldn't mind seeing Donaire/Darchiyan again (I may be in the minority), compared to the other Donaire fights that they shove down our throats.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
daprofessor
post Jul 15 2013, 02:09 PM
Post #72


Cruiserweight


Group: Members
Posts: 5,773
Joined: 20-May 11
From: killa kali
Member No.: 12,336



QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jul 15 2013, 01:38 PM) *
HBO's bias and disgusting emotions, is killing them slowly. It's really getting sad at this point. I can somewhat understand the Rios/Pac situation...that was done for money and PPV sales. Now, the Rigondeaux situation is vomitrocious, and every inch of the word.

I mean seriously, Donaire isn't as great as they projected, he got his ass kicked, get over it. But noooo...they want to play the angry ex-wife card, and stick it to the public. It's not our fault that Donaire was clueless, and got handled. I wouldn't mind seeing Donaire/Darchiyan again (I may be in the minority), compared to the other Donaire fights that they shove down our throats.


i'd much rather see ridongdeaux/darchinyan. fuck donaire. let him get to the back of the line where he belongs. i think donaire is as good as they made him out to be....rigondeaux is just that much better.

he's a respectful dude. they were so eager to push broner....now they got a bonafied star in rigondeaux with the accomplishments and ability to back it all up and they're shitting on him? really???? clueless muthafuckas.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jack 1000
post Jul 15 2013, 06:35 PM
Post #73


The Consultant


Group: Root Admin
Posts: 9,444
Joined: 2-December 02
Member No.: 14



I think much of the problem is HBO struggling to grab the younger demographic,

The MMA audiences, the, as some critics have called it, the Skateboarding crew, who will only watch boxing if every fight is a Rocky Movie and/or the star is a slugger, or a likable pretty boy. But the slugger is preferred by the younger demographic. Slick elusive boxers without personality fail to put asses in the seats. The thing is though when Mayweather was at HBO he put assess in the seats. Now he will be doing that at Showtime. But is he doing that because of his excellent boxing skills, or the general public hatred persona, where people are buying just waiting to see him lose?

Mayweather had a few PPV clunkers, but always literally broke records when a marquee star or pretty boy was in the other corner. Floyd has said that over at HBO, Pacquiao was a manufactured product. Probably the most pom-pom shaking has been done for sluggers or likable pretty boys. Gatti-Ward, Delahoya, and Pacquiao. Jones was dominant, but didn't have the quality of opposition to test what he might have been with stronger challenges. The Klitschko's dominant but in HBO's eyes boring, spare the classic war of Lewis-V. Klitschko.

I think that HBO's search for a star builder who's a bad-ass probably goes back to Tyson on the network. They want the next Tyson, put so much time and money into the ears of stars like Gatti-Ward, Delahoya, Pacquiao, because they fit the pretty boy and/or brawler requirement, that skilled boxers who weren't likable or brawlers (or both) were looked on as lesser by HBO's commentary. Mayweather and Hopkins comes to mind.

It will be very hard to revitalize HBO's sinking ship, because the younger production team, nor the current demographic does not respect elusive boxing. They don't understand boxing. And if you don't understand something, you can't successfully produce it. Boxing is about creating the best, most competitive fights, working to unify titles to find the best in each weight class. It's not about going Ga-Ga for some Olympian just because he's an Olympian and won the gold against some bum HBO. Put a guy like that on HBO within six months of a title shot when he is fighting a #1 contender were either has a chance at losing. Spare us from the bum of the month road show for your manufactured "stars." What these young producers don't get is that a fighter is NOT the second coming just because he's the house guy on your network and Jim Lamply thinks so with the pom-pom shaking. HBO should be promoting two-sided fights, not protecting so-called stars against sub-par opposition.

Jack
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
daprofessor
post Jul 16 2013, 02:14 PM
Post #74


Cruiserweight


Group: Members
Posts: 5,773
Joined: 20-May 11
From: killa kali
Member No.: 12,336



QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ Jul 15 2013, 06:35 PM) *
I think much of the problem is HBO struggling to grab the younger demographic,

The MMA audiences, the, as some critics have called it, the Skateboarding crew, who will only watch boxing if every fight is a Rocky Movie and/or the star is a slugger, or a likable pretty boy. But the slugger is preferred by the younger demographic. Slick elusive boxers without personality fail to put asses in the seats. The thing is though when Mayweather was at HBO he put assess in the seats. Now he will be doing that at Showtime. But is he doing that because of his excellent boxing skills, or the general public hatred persona, where people are buying just waiting to see him lose?

Mayweather had a few PPV clunkers, but always literally broke records when a marquee star or pretty boy was in the other corner. Floyd has said that over at HBO, Pacquiao was a manufactured product. Probably the most pom-pom shaking has been done for sluggers or likable pretty boys. Gatti-Ward, Delahoya, and Pacquiao. Jones was dominant, but didn't have the quality of opposition to test what he might have been with stronger challenges. The Klitschko's dominant but in HBO's eyes boring, spare the classic war of Lewis-V. Klitschko.

I think that HBO's search for a star builder who's a bad-ass probably goes back to Tyson on the network. They want the next Tyson, put so much time and money into the ears of stars like Gatti-Ward, Delahoya, Pacquiao, because they fit the pretty boy and/or brawler requirement, that skilled boxers who weren't likable or brawlers (or both) were looked on as lesser by HBO's commentary. Mayweather and Hopkins comes to mind.

It will be very hard to revitalize HBO's sinking ship, because the younger production team, nor the current demographic does not respect elusive boxing. They don't understand boxing. And if you don't understand something, you can't successfully produce it. Boxing is about creating the best, most competitive fights, working to unify titles to find the best in each weight class. It's not about going Ga-Ga for some Olympian just because he's an Olympian and won the gold against some bum HBO. Put a guy like that on HBO within six months of a title shot when he is fighting a #1 contender were either has a chance at losing. Spare us from the bum of the month road show for your manufactured "stars." What these young producers don't get is that a fighter is NOT the second coming just because he's the house guy on your network and Jim Lamply thinks so with the pom-pom shaking. HBO should be promoting two-sided fights, not protecting so-called stars against sub-par opposition.

Jack


good post over all.

for starters...i disagree and get tired of ppl even bringing mma into the discussion. it has zero bearing on boxing. different sport...different demographic. stop repeating dana whites lies.

as for hbo dumbing it down for the fans...i don't think that's necessary. the bottom line is that styles make fights. it's not the fighters the network should be pushing.....it's the right matches. hbo needs to hire a real match maker. the stars will be born from those matches. stop trying to force the issue with a chosen boxer and let them develop on or off air. boxing when it's done right, doesn't need the fluff. there is no one at hbo that has a clue. them listening to writers, who follow boxing but really have zero clue on how to groom a fighter or match make a fighter to the top, is going to be fruitless. tom hauser and dan rafael are nothing more than shills. they don't know shit about the sport. lampley is a cheer leader and has zero understanding. get rid of him...put real boxing people in there and watch things turn around.

the same formula arum used for pac can be used for rigondeaux. match him against aggressive fighters who like to trade....sit back and enjoy the show. the guy can box beautifully....but he can also crack!!! there are plenty of matches that can be made that will produce fireworks.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
mrchitown
post Jul 16 2013, 09:36 PM
Post #75


Light Heavyweight


Group: Members
Posts: 4,746
Joined: 21-July 11
Member No.: 12,858



QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jul 16 2013, 02:14 PM) *
good post over all.

for starters...i disagree and get tired of ppl even bringing mma into the discussion. it has zero bearing on boxing. different sport...different demographic. stop repeating dana whites lies.

as for hbo dumbing it down for the fans...i don't think that's necessary. the bottom line is that styles make fights. it's not the fighters the network should be pushing.....it's the right matches. hbo needs to hire a real match maker. the stars will be born from those matches. stop trying to force the issue with a chosen boxer and let them develop on or off air. boxing when it's done right, doesn't need the fluff. there is no one at hbo that has a clue. them listening to writers, who follow boxing but really have zero clue on how to groom a fighter or match make a fighter to the top, is going to be fruitless. tom hauser and dan rafael are nothing more than shills. they don't know shit about the sport. lampley is a cheer leader and has zero understanding. get rid of him...put real boxing people in there and watch things turn around.

the same formula arum used for pac can be used for rigondeaux. match him against aggressive fighters who like to trade....sit back and enjoy the show. the guy can box beautifully....but he can also crack!!! there are plenty of matches that can be made that will produce fireworks.


Hauser and Rafael? What do they do over at HBO
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
daprofessor
post Jul 17 2013, 02:37 PM
Post #76


Cruiserweight


Group: Members
Posts: 5,773
Joined: 20-May 11
From: killa kali
Member No.: 12,336



QUOTE (mrchitown @ Jul 16 2013, 09:36 PM) *
Hauser and Rafael? What do they do over at HBO


i recall hearing that they were offering rafael the position of match maker and hauser is some kind of advisor position or some bullshit.

it's funny that just a few years ago hauser wrote some bullshit articles for maxboxing basically shitting on al haymon and the brass at hbo for the supposed 'favorable treatment' haymon was getting. hauser went on to say that kery davis was his boy and allowed them to bypass traditional promoting to bring haymons fighters into the limelight. it spurred many articles and more bullshit from so called writers at bullshit sites that are closely affilliated and often parott the things arum, merchant, rafael and hauser say.

some of the bullshit they were bringing up was how much berto was being paid to fight on hbo. they all suggested that he was being over paid since he wasn't a 'draw' in the traditional sense and he was being favorably matched on hbo. a few things to consider on this argument....who gives a fuck if he wasn't brought up in the traditional manner? for all the berto fights i've witnessed on hbo...i can't say that he was ever really in a stinker. most of his fights were very competitive and he showed he belonged on tv. as for how much he made....hbo was giving him his fair share. there was no greedy bob arum to take the lions share. imo....the only person who should have a problem with this would be bob arum because it exposes how the blood sucker does business. but instead....guys like hauser, the hauser wannabes, rafael and a few bullshit sites that shill for top rank took up arums cause and shit on haymon and his fighters every chance they got. when greenburg turned down pac/mosley (which turned out to be the right decision because that fight sucked ass) they shit all over him for arum and thus began the move to get rid of him and davis. a short time after all of this...hauser ends up working for top rank. coincidence? i think not.

let's be honest about it....hbo has always shown bias and favoritism for top rank. i can think all the way back to delahoya/trinidad in '98. trinidad had been the longest reigning welterweight champion at the time they fought. hbo recognized delahoya who was with top rank at the time and they shit on trinidad for the whole fight. this was when i really took notice of hbo's bullshit. anything dlh did was met with lampley and merchants cheerleading and pom pom shaking and when trinidad did anything there was complete silence. hbo is really responsible for complicating the whole alphabet soup thing. the wbo was not looked upon as a legit title back then but when oscar won that belt...all of a sudden it became legit? oscar was their guy...they pushed him...so the belt became relevant.

if you look at them over the last 10yrs....hbo and arum have a history of punishing or shitting on any fighter who upsets their plans. when a guy like merchant, who really doesn't know shit about boxing, shits on a fighter...it's pretty much a death sentence at hbo. he's done it to many slick boxers who don't fit the bill of what he considers boxing. he's shit on guys like zahir raheem, joan guzman, ivan calderon and now more recently guillermo rigondeaux. if i'm to follow a guy like merchant who is supposed to be an "expert" on the sport...i should remove guys like robinson, pep, tunney, benny leonard, ray leonard, camacho, whitaker from the history books because in his opinion...that's boring. fuck merchant. fuck lampley. fuck hauser. fuck rafael. fuck hbo....until they pull their heads out of their asses. they were supposed to be the leading network for boxing and they are killing the sport with their bullshit listening to all the wrong people. they need to get real boxing people in there because none of those guys are real boxing people.

This post has been edited by daprofessor: Jul 17 2013, 02:38 PM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jack 1000
post Jul 17 2013, 02:50 PM
Post #77


The Consultant


Group: Root Admin
Posts: 9,444
Joined: 2-December 02
Member No.: 14



QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jul 17 2013, 02:37 PM) *
i recall hearing that they were offering rafael the position of match maker and hauser is some kind of advisor position or some bullshit.

it's funny that just a few years ago hauser wrote some bullshit articles for maxboxing basically shitting on al haymon and the brass at hbo for the supposed 'favorable treatment' haymon was getting. hauser went on to say that kery davis was his boy and allowed them to bypass traditional promoting to bring haymons fighters into the limelight. it spurred many articles and more bullshit from so called writers at bullshit sites that are closely affilliated and often parott the things arum, merchant, rafael and hauser say.

some of the bullshit they were bringing up was how much berto was being paid to fight on hbo. they all suggested that he was being over paid since he wasn't a 'draw' in the traditional sense and he was being favorably matched on hbo. a few things to consider on this argument....who gives a fuck if he wasn't brought up in the traditional manner? for all the berto fights i've witnessed on hbo...i can't say that he was ever really in a stinker. most of his fights were very competitive and he showed he belonged on tv. as for how much he made....hbo was giving him his fair share. there was no greedy bob arum to take the lions share. imo....the only person who should have a problem with this would be bob arum because it exposes how the blood sucker does business. but instead....guys like hauser, the hauser wannabes, rafael and a few bullshit sites that shill for top rank took up arums cause and shit on haymon and his fighters every chance they got. when greenburg turned down pac/mosley (which turned out to be the right decision because that fight sucked ass) they shit all over him for arum and thus began the move to get rid of him and davis. a short time after all of this...hauser ends up working for top rank. coincidence? i think not.

let's be honest about it....hbo has always shown bias and favoritism for top rank. i can think all the way back to delahoya/trinidad in '98. trinidad had been the longest reigning welterweight champion at the time they fought. hbo recognized delahoya who was with top rank at the time and they shit on trinidad for the whole fight. this was when i really took notice of hbo's bullshit. anything dlh did was met with lampley and merchants cheerleading and pom pom shaking and when trinidad did anything there was complete silence. hbo is really responsible for complicating the whole alphabet soup thing. the wbo was not looked upon as a legit title back then but when oscar won that belt...all of a sudden it became legit? oscar was their guy...they pushed him...so the belt became relevant.

if you look at them over the last 10yrs....hbo and arum have a history of punishing or shitting on any fighter who upsets their plans. when a guy like merchant, who really doesn't know shit about boxing, shits on a fighter...it's pretty much a death sentence at hbo. he's done it to many slick boxers who don't fit the bill of what he considers boxing. he's shit on guys like zahir raheem, joan guzman, ivan calderon and now more recently guillermo rigondeaux. if i'm to follow a guy like merchant who is supposed to be an "expert" on the sport...i should remove guys like robinson, pep, tunney, benny leonard, ray leonard, camacho, whitaker from the history books because in his opinion...that's boring. fuck merchant. fuck lampley. fuck hauser. fuck rafael. fuck hbo....until they pull their heads out of their asses. they were supposed to be the leading network for boxing and they are killing the sport with their bullshit listening to all the wrong people. they need to get real boxing people in there because none of those guys are real boxing people.


Great post!

How would you all describe Roy Jone's treatment in his prime at HBO? He was not really the slugger that Merchant and Lamps wanted for the boxing persona? But HBO treated Roy well, despite his great skills, he did fight a lot of no-hopers and guys toward the end of their careers. Yet he would be considered more boxer than slugger. I liked his commentary though! What made Lamply and Merchant often bring out the pom-poms for Jones? Was it often his dominance over less than stellar opponents? Roy wasn't Lamply's "Goo Goo" toy like Delahoya was! I agree the way Lamply sucked up to Delahoa was sicking. I give Merchant credit for his famous "Delahoya's enterence music sucks." which showed that when we wanted to, he didn't have to be a "Yes Man" like Lamply all the time. Remember that Merchant's comment about Oscar's music got him suspended for a telecast?

Jack
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
mrchitown
post Jul 17 2013, 03:54 PM
Post #78


Light Heavyweight


Group: Members
Posts: 4,746
Joined: 21-July 11
Member No.: 12,858



I don't understand how Rafael is a match maker when he ain't gotten into a fight in his life, at least not in my view. I don't see where's the wealth of knowledge that he's bringing to the table. He's a nut hugger, plain and simple

Hauser still writes those types of articles, the recent shtick he's been railing on is Mayweather and USADA and their relationship with GB. If you listen to him, they're all in cahoots to make it seem like they're cleaning up the sport. He even claims to have proof that Mayweather failed a USADA administered test and they swept it under the rug. I used to respect him but he's become quite embarrassing

I agree also with TR getting special treatment over at HBO, I think that had a little something to do with the impact king had though. Tyson was the man and HBO needed something to counter attack with and they rode Arum's nuts and haven't stopped since. They used Oscar as the tool to propel them and the second he went off on his own they sneak dissed him. Just like when Floyd beat Gatti, I noticed a shift in the way they spoke about him. The thing that boxers need to know is that if you fight on HBO and your not the in house fighter. And you win. You will be degraded and put on the shelf like some kind of toy. They've done it in the part and there doing it now with Rigondeaux. It's like fight on our network at your own risk
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
BrutUalBK
post Jul 17 2013, 04:03 PM
Post #79


Lightweight


Group: Members
Posts: 948
Joined: 20-June 12
From: Texas
Member No.: 13,708



QUOTE (mrchitown @ Jul 2 2013, 06:46 PM) *
My biggest issue is with Kellerman because I was really a fan of the guy before he joined HBO, now he's been non this kick for quite a while where he ls trying to be Merchant-esque everytime he speaks. When he first got there he was himself and I thought he added substance to the team but soon as those rumblings that HBO wanted merchant out and him in he's totally turned into a carbon copy of the guy

Where did you hear that the poster child for diabetes was a consultant for them? That's is the literal definition of scrapping the bottom of the barrel

Greenburg didn't love the sport the way Dibella did but he sure as he'll knew how to create compelling content and that's what got HBO through. It's no secret that some fighters really liked dealing with him and took their complaints to him. If he wasn't good then Hershman would've had Showtime in a better position like how Espinosa has them now. On Eni heard Greenburg was doing some work with Showtime I knew it was a wrap for HBO. Hershman is Greenburg's toy, he owns the guy and ain't nothing he can do about it. HBO really suffers a big blow to their credibility when Steward passed, he was insightful and brought a needed balance. Now that he's gone its just open cheerleader season over there. Want to turn it around? Get rid of Hershman



Kellerman is a far better Boxing Historian than he is a Commentator. To me they picked him because they knew he could talk about all the history of this boxer and that boxer but doing flat out commentary is just not his thing, he tries to be honest and somewhat neutral when he's calling the fight but you can tell that they're trying to reel him in to make him say stuff that isn't happening like Lampley does when it is an HBO house fighter that is in the ring.

HBO's problem has been magnified with the disappearance of Floyd, regardless of what they say their network took a huge loss since Money left them; people ask questions and I'm sure that they know that HBO is the boxing giant of the sport and they wanted to know why Floyd left such a huge network?......

SHO will not bite the hand that is feeding them which is why they so eagerly snatched up Floyd and once other technically gifted fighters like the Rigo's of the sport learn that they either have to switch up their style or sit it out for months at a time waiting to get a fight from HBO then they too will leave them as well.

If you're not an all out Rocky then HBO is not clamoring to put you on especially as a headliner fight, Rigo won't get another headliner with HBO-he may be relegated to undercard status from here on out as long as he stays with HBO.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jack 1000
post Jul 17 2013, 06:02 PM
Post #80


The Consultant


Group: Root Admin
Posts: 9,444
Joined: 2-December 02
Member No.: 14



QUOTE
They used Oscar as the tool to propel them and the second he went off on his own they sneak dissed him. Just like when Floyd beat Gatti, I noticed a shift in the way they spoke about him. The thing that boxers need to know is that if you fight on HBO and your not the in house fighter. And you win. You will be degraded and put on the shelf like some kind of toy. They've done it in the part and there doing it now with Rigondeaux. It's like fight on our network at your own risk



******************************************************

Good call! Notice how after Floyd beat Gatti, they didn't like it. Gatti was their action-fighter lovable poster-boy, and Floyd, didn't matter that he was and is one of the best most elusive fighters for his time, he had a prick personality. And HBO didn't like that this bad POS beat their Golden Goose. In fact, they made the odds in that fighter closer than they should have been. I will admit that at the time, I still had this strong hatred of Floyd and wanted Gatti to win. There were a lot of people that picked Gatti to win, because they put SO MUCH pom-poming into those three Gatti-Ward fights. The first fight was great, but the second and third are way over-rated. When Floyd gave Arturo the beating of his life, HBO didn't like that. Sort of a similar way that they treated Bradley like shit for beating Pacquaio and especially Marquez for KO'ing Lamply's "Bed Partner."

It's almost like if you followed pro wrestling at all. HBO wants their Rocky sluggers or goodie-too-shows personality boxers to be molded into a Hulk Hogan type persona. Delahoya, Gatti-Ward are the good guys. And like stated above, if you aren't a pretty boy good guy or a Rocky fighter, HBO doesn't respect you and will reduce you to undercard status if you can get anything at all, should you beat one of "Lamply's Toys." HBO's Rocky fighters or squeaky clean good guys are their "Hulk Hogan." and if you don't fit the mold that HBO is looking for, you will be restricted in terms of air-dates and opponents. It's exactly the type of Latin-American/Hispanic/Mexican, manufactured star that Bob Arum plays to and has for years. He's got the fighters that HBO wants, for now. If that relationship goes sour due to the distrust of Arum, and those fighters feeling that they are not getting what they are worth. (Alverado.) How long with the relationship last?

I also think that Tom Hauser is a good writer. I read, The Black Lights by him. But not so good at other elements of the fight game.

Jack
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

10 Pages V  « < 6 7 8 9 10 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 16th April 2014 - 12:30 AM