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> Ward vs Chavez (Topics Merged), Any Interest? At 168?
mgrover
post Aug 20 2012, 07:45 PM
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I think he'd get schooled, i doubt he could even beat Froch let alone Ward
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daprofessor
post Aug 20 2012, 08:23 PM
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QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Aug 20 2012, 07:35 PM) *
From what I remember, a month or two before the Andy Lee bout was signed, Chavez only had a little over a year left on his TR contract. If all goes well by next summer, and he's able to land a Pavlik bout (which is possible), then he will be a big enough attraction and not even need TR anymore.

One of the chief reasons that I believe Arum made the Martinez fight, was because Julio was threatening to sit out his contract and fight in Mexico until it was up. So Arum either made the fight to punish him (in the event that he loses), reward him, or financially punish him by making sure that he never even thinks of asking for more money in his next fight, in the event that he loses to Sergio.

Your reason could be just as accurate or correct, so I wont rule it out. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) Anyway, Im almost wondering how a Dirrell fight would be a step backwards for Julio. Give me some clarity please, you may see something that I dont see in this case. If anything, I believe that it would be a step up (competition wise) for Chavez and just the opposite for Dirrell.

The reason I threw Dirrell in there, is because he and Ward have close ties (skill wise), and I figured that would be somewhat of a measuring stick to see if Julio would be ready for a Ward fight. I thought that would be one of those TR "throw him in there with a slick black fighter" moves, sort of like they did Manny with the Bradley fight.


i'm just speculating...i could be wrong on all of it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

as for dirrell being a step back...i guess i should have called it high risk/low reward. i agree...dirrell would be a step up in competition...but a win over him wouldn't be something he can hang his hat on. i think chavez would give dirrell a harder fight than both AA and froch.
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Plah
post Aug 20 2012, 11:06 PM
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Chavez loses badly against Sergio, Froch and Ward.
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checkleft
post Aug 21 2012, 12:35 AM
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I don't think it would be very competitive honestly. Ward is very good be would crowd counter turn chavez maybe even stop him by accumulation even though I don't think ward hits all that hard. He is a very underrated guy, prob the most complete fighter in the game with mayweather
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Cshel86
post Aug 21 2012, 08:19 AM
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QUOTE (daprofessor @ Aug 20 2012, 09:23 PM) *
i'm just speculating...i could be wrong on all of it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

as for dirrell being a step back...i guess i should have called it high risk/low reward. i agree...dirrell would be a step up in competition...but a win over him wouldn't be something he can hang his hat on. i think chavez would give dirrell a harder fight than both AA and froch.

I agree. Im just trying to make sense out of making "something out of nothing". If this fight is ever talked up and made into somewhat of a megafight, then I will damn sure email the link to this thread so we can be compensated for it! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

QUOTE (Plah @ Aug 21 2012, 12:06 AM) *
Chavez loses badly against Sergio, Froch and Ward.

C'mon Plah, your mind is still stuck in 2011. I would've have somewhat agreed with you a year ago, in regards to Chavez losing to Martinez. Not now though. You dont thinkk its a 50/50 fight at this point?

Good ol' Sr. didn't have that many tricks in his bag, he was a basic fighter with a little head movement, a good chin, and nasty body shots...does Jr. remind you of him in any manner? I would say yes.

I wont sit here and say that Julio is a skilled fighter, but he does have the size, chin, body shots, and resolve, to make a decent (if not great) account for himself in the above mentioned fights. Agree? Somewhat?


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mgrover
post Aug 21 2012, 09:40 AM
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i think people give him too much credit for the andy lee win
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daprofessor
post Aug 21 2012, 01:50 PM
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QUOTE (mgrover @ Aug 21 2012, 09:40 AM) *
i think people give him too much credit for the andy lee win


it's not just the andy lee win imo. i look at his last 3 to 4 fights. he's shown very good progression. he's added a jab...some movement and defense...but most of all he's grown into his body and is really rippin' shots. his aggression combined with his ability to take a shot and the fact that he keeps coming the whole fight makes me think he has a chance against most in the division. i know some will say..."but who did he fight?" yeah....manfredo, rubio and lee aren't exactly world beaters...but he did exactly what he should have with all three....he dominated them. will that transfer into a martinez victory? that remains to be seen. all i know is martinez has looked pretty good himself. his ko of williams was the pinnacle imo. his wins over dzinziruk (who was coming off an injury and long layoff) was impressive...but when u consider the circumstances...eh. then his wins over macklin and barker...those were big guys who weren't really aggressive and it took him several rounds to break them down. chavez brings something different to the table. something he's not had to deal with since his last loss....pressure. best believe chavez will cut that ring...and chavez will tax his body. if martinez doesn't get respect early it's going to be a very long night for him.
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checkleft
post Aug 21 2012, 02:03 PM
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I do agree with your final thoughts professor but I don't with what you said about coming along. The reason he is ripping these shots is because he comes on 20+ pounds heavier then his opponents, not only is he blatantlyridiculing the weight class system in place as chels picture illustrates (him with a ton of food directly after the lee weigh in) he has used performance enhancers, ie diaretics, to either mask a banned substance and also to keep that advantage and fight in a smaller weight class.

Once/if he moves up to super middle he's not gonna have the same advantage and we might see the Arthur Abraham effect if he doesn't polish his boxing skills
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daprofessor
post Aug 21 2012, 02:39 PM
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QUOTE (checkleft @ Aug 21 2012, 02:03 PM) *
I do agree with your final thoughts professor but I don't with what you said about coming along. The reason he is ripping these shots is because he comes on 20+ pounds heavier then his opponents, not only is he blatantlyridiculing the weight class system in place as chels picture illustrates (him with a ton of food directly after the lee weigh in) he has used performance enhancers, ie diaretics, to either mask a banned substance and also to keep that advantage and fight in a smaller weight class.

Once/if he moves up to super middle he's not gonna have the same advantage and we might see the Arthur Abraham effect if he doesn't polish his boxing skills


true, but look at his body...he is filling out. he's getting his man strength. i don't know about the p.e.d's or any of that...it's possible....but whatever the case, he's going to be the bigger/stronger guy in the ring against martinez. at this point...AA is not busy enough and doesn't bring the same intensity he had just a few years ago. i'd pick chavez over him at 168. i'd probably pick him over froch as well.

This post has been edited by daprofessor: Aug 21 2012, 02:42 PM
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checkleft
post Aug 21 2012, 03:05 PM
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By Arthur Abraham syndrome I meant his strength and physical attributes wouldn't transfer over to 168.. I could be wrong but after the super six I'm pretty sure that's the reason Abraham went back to 160
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