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> Where is Boxing Going?, Will the new stars be crowned by default or by way of hard work?
Cshel86
post Aug 22 2011, 04:18 PM
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QUOTE (EAlbian @ Aug 22 2011, 03:52 PM) *
Berto and Alvarez are entirely different animals. Alvarez actually can fill a stadium and sell out shows, Berto was unknown by a lot of casual fans and only got fights on HBO because of Haymon. Greenberg is gone and I'm hoping that with that so are the days of trading HBO boxing dates for securing Lady Gaga and other pop star concerts on HBO.

Alvarez is only 21 and It would be wrong for GBP to rush this kid into a fight that he's not ready for. He has easily 10 years in the game left and had a very limited amateur career, I would hate to see him end up like Vargas.

I think Gomez is a step up for him, he's durable and has some skills(looked pretty good against Sotto-Karras). I'd like to see him in there with someone like Mosley(someone experienced with a name) or even K9 next and then look for the winner of Vanes v Angulo. After those 2 fights i think he's ready for Cotto/Margarito winner.

I think right now GBP has three potential stars to carry the sport after Floyd and Manny(Khan, Ortiz, Alvarez). I think all of them can make for good fights against each other.

If Top Rank and GBP are really serious about matching their fighters(hasn't happened yet, not any of their good crop at least) then I think boxing will be just fine.

If good fighters fight other good fighters the sport can turn itself around. GBP has a good young stable and it seems like they are willing to match their young(er) fighters tough(Guerrero vs Maidana)(Ortiz vs Berto)(Khan vs Maidana)(Deleon vs Broner) and that's what boxing needs.

Oh yeah I forgot how young and somewhat inexperienced Vargas was when he started landing big fights. Dude had a little over 20 pro fights, but he was always a game fighter...win or lose. I think that me and you were discussing a possible Khan/Ortiz fight coming out of all this, on another thread not too long ago. Those are the only star worthy guys out there right about now...Khan, Ortiz, Alvarez, Guerrero, Maidana (will always be the man to test your heart against), and Berto (when he gets his shit together and get back in the mix).
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gravytrain
post Aug 22 2011, 05:27 PM
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QUOTE (EAlbian @ Aug 22 2011, 03:52 PM) *
Berto and Alvarez are entirely different animals. Alvarez actually can fill a stadium and sell out shows, Berto was unknown by a lot of casual fans and only got fights on HBO because of Haymon. Greenberg is gone and I'm hoping that with that so are the days of trading HBO boxing dates for securing Lady Gaga and other pop star concerts on HBO.

Alvarez is only 21 and It would be wrong for GBP to rush this kid into a fight that he's not ready for. He has easily 10 years in the game left and had a very limited amateur career, I would hate to see him end up like Vargas.

I think Gomez is a step up for him, he's durable and has some skills(looked pretty good against Sotto-Karras). I'd like to see him in there with someone like Mosley(someone experienced with a name) or even K9 next and then look for the winner of Vanes v Angulo. After those 2 fights i think he's ready for Cotto/Margarito winner.

I think right now GBP has three potential stars to carry the sport after Floyd and Manny(Khan, Ortiz, Alvarez). I think all of them can make for good fights against each other.

If Top Rank and GBP are really serious about matching their fighters(hasn't happened yet, not any of their good crop at least) then I think boxing will be just fine.

If good fighters fight other good fighters the sport can turn itself around. GBP has a good young stable and it seems like they are willing to match their young(er) fighters tough(Guerrero vs Maidana)(Ortiz vs Berto)(Khan vs Maidana)(Deleon vs Broner) and that's what boxing needs.


would Alvarez be getting this much attention without GBP having such an interest in him? you can't forget that he'll be headlining his own PPV within his next few fights either. Schaefer already called it and said Mayorga was a possible opponent. what's the real difference between Alvarez and Berto? they're both hype jobs, different people just created them. and both of these cats has the benefit of working with someone that's in deep with HBO.

why would GBP have to change anything with Alvarez? fighters with clout can already move up and get a paper title or stay in a division while staying away from dangerous fighters. that's already happening. what would make anyone thinking that years down the line GBP is going to want to risk the heir to the throne when he'll most likely be headlining successful HBO PPVs? boxing hasn't been that way for awhile.
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checkleft
post Aug 22 2011, 05:43 PM
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It's all about what the promoters want, if you work hard to get to the top without a reputable promoter you end up like sergio Martinez. No one will put there fighters in with you
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EAlbian
post Aug 22 2011, 05:43 PM
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QUOTE (gravytrain @ Aug 22 2011, 06:27 PM) *
would Alvarez be getting this much attention without GBP having such an interest in him? you can't forget that he'll be headlining his own PPV within his next few fights either. Schaefer already called it and said Mayorga was a possible opponent. what's the real difference between Alvarez and Berto? they're both hype jobs, different people just created them. and both of these cats has the benefit of working with someone that's in deep with HBO.

why would GBP have to change anything with Alvarez? fighters with clout can already move up and get a paper title or stay in a division while staying away from dangerous fighters. that's already happening. what would make anyone thinking that years down the line GBP is going to want to risk the heir to the throne when he'll most likely be headlining successful HBO PPVs? boxing hasn't been that way for awhile.


Actually in Mexico he was selling out huge stadiums without GBP. I think a Mayorga fight would be ok actually. He's 21 i don't get what the rush is, Cotto just fought Mayorga and it took him 12 rounds to get rid of him. Is Cotto all hype now? I think you'll see Alvarez in their tough, just not yet. Maybe a year or two. I still regard him as a prospect, a work in progress. Vanes and Angulo are suppose to be fighting in an eliminator, he will have to vacate and at that point should be looked down on. Rhodes was his mandatory and he beat the hell out of him. This isn't 130, it's 154 and people can get seriously hurt. He's worth a lot of money and there is no reason to move him any faster than he's being moved. Look what Trinidad did to David Reid and Fernando Vargas
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gravytrain
post Aug 22 2011, 05:56 PM
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QUOTE (EAlbian @ Aug 22 2011, 06:43 PM) *
Actually in Mexico he was selling out huge stadiums without GBP. I think a Mayorga fight would be ok actually. He's 21 i don't get what the rush is, Cotto just fought Mayorga and it took him 12 rounds to get rid of him. Is Cotto all hype now? I think you'll see Alvarez in their tough, just not yet. Maybe a year or two. I still regard him as a prospect, a work in progress. Vanes and Angulo are suppose to be fighting in an eliminator, he will have to vacate and at that point should be looked down on. Rhodes was his mandatory and he beat the hell out of him. This isn't 130, it's 154 and people can get seriously hurt. He's worth a lot of money and there is no reason to move him any faster than he's being moved. Look what Trinidad did to David Reid and Fernando Vargas


how many dates on American networks did he get before he got with GBP? and is this dude vs Mayorga good for a PPV? we're talking about a PPV Canelo will be the A side of, not an undercard fight. and Cotto isn't all hype, he's all shot. how many prospects get their own venue for an undercard fight? i can't think of any. and if he does vacate what's really going to happen? that's not going to keep him from any PPVs, he can just say he outgrew the division then wait in the MW division until the WBC can get him another title. the WBC hasn't exactly been free of controversy lately so that eliminator doesn't mean much to me right now.

i don't think there's any denying that Canelo has got some favorable treatment and with how boxing has been slipping he can keep getting that treatment until he retires. if he gets good numbers on his upcoming PPVs i doubt he'll ever have his level of competition raised too much.
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Guest_Fitz_*
post Aug 22 2011, 06:06 PM
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I agree with what's being said about Alvarez should not be rushed, he has a limited amateur career and should come along slowly, but all of that gets thrown out the window when you decide to pick up one of the major world titles. That's the only problem.
When you pick up a major title, you need to pick up competition, if you want a fighter to keep learning and bringing him up slowly, don't put him in a world title fight. That's the only thing.
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EAlbian
post Aug 22 2011, 06:08 PM
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QUOTE (gravytrain @ Aug 22 2011, 06:56 PM) *
how many dates on American networks did he get before he got with GBP? and is this dude vs Mayorga good for a PPV? we're talking about a PPV Canelo will be the A side of, not an undercard fight. and Cotto isn't all hype, he's all shot. how many prospects get their own venue for an undercard fight? i can't think of any. and if he does vacate what's really going to happen? that's not going to keep him from any PPVs, he can just say he outgrew the division then wait in the MW division until the WBC can get him another title. the WBC hasn't exactly been free of controversy lately so that eliminator doesn't mean much to me right now.

i don't think there's any denying that Canelo has got some favorable treatment and with how boxing has been slipping he can keep getting that treatment until he retires. if he gets good numbers on his upcoming PPVs i doubt he'll ever have his level of competition raised too much.


I guess it's just kind of a glass half empty view on stuff that I don't wish to take. He was 19 at the time with no amateur experience and gained the following, its because of what people saw in him that he's able to command these wages and opportunities. was it fair that Ray Leonard got 1mill for his pro debut while Pryor(who was thought to be just as good of an amateur) got like $800? Life isn't always fair and neither is boxing. De La Hoya put Ortiz in tough with Maidana when he was suppose to be his next golden ticket, why should Alvarez be different.

It's a known fact that Mexicans spend money on boxing and he's a star there, take it up with Mexico. Who should he be fighting in your opinion?
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EAlbian
post Aug 22 2011, 06:09 PM
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QUOTE (Fitz @ Aug 22 2011, 07:06 PM) *
I agree with what's being said about Alvarez should not be rushed, he has a limited amateur career and should come along slowly, but all of that gets thrown out the window when you decide to pick up one of the major world titles. That's the only problem.
When you pick up a major title, you need to pick up competition, if you want a fighter to keep learning and bringing him up slowly, don't put him in a world title fight. That's the only thing.


I understand that, but he's fighting his mandatories(so far) can't knock him till he ducks/vacates, thats all i'm saying
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STEVENSKI
post Aug 22 2011, 06:15 PM
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One thing that people forget is that PBF was a name fighter who neverhad a PPV fight until the Gatti one. Even then he was clearly the B side & could not sell out a arena in his next fight.

Fighters take time to become stars in their sport & it usually requires beating a famous fighter who is washed up to start making that transition from gifted athlete to being able to carry a PPV event.

Look at Ward. A Olympic gold medallist who no one knows & no one ever will know as he is fighting fighters no one has heard of outside boxing fans. This guy should be a superstar at least in America due to his gold medal performance but he is not. I would wagwer this is due to him being in a mainly European division.

One thing I will give Europe is that they promote their fighters well & build a loyal following that will sell out arenas.

Look at Kessler, Calzaghe, Froch, Khan, The Klit bros etc. They may not be "cool" or popular stateside but every one of them sells out arenas in Europe.

Why is that? I think it is because of several reasons. Big production values for the show & they build to the main event. Well matched undercards where the fighters may not be all that but they scrap in usually entertaining manner.

The US seems to reliant on site fees & PPV revenue rather than putting on a big production that will entertain fans.

A great example is the recent Klit vs Haye farce. Fight sucked but the whole production was very slick & had some humour as well. Decent card & 50,000 odd people sitting in the rain. How often does that type of thing happen in the USA? Not anymore but Tyson used to fight in the open air so why not some of the other big stars from America?
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Mean Mister Must...
post Aug 22 2011, 06:31 PM
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Boxing is doing OK. People always worry about what will happen when the biggest stars retire, but someone always comes along and fills that void because there will always be boxing fans. They're not going to disappear. MMA is not going to severely hurt boxing. Look, MMA has been around for more than a decade and boxing is still going on strong. Moreover, some people do prefer to watch boxing than MMA, while some like to watch both. One sport is not going to suddenly drive the other out of business.

As for Canelo being a hype job; he is getting far more exposure than he has earned, but this is a business after all, and in Mexico he had a huge following, which GBP is merely exploiting. At least Alvarez is showing some promise, while JC jr could clearly be stuck with the 'hype job' label.
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