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> Mayweather-Alexander? Not Guerrero? (Topics Merged), Update:IBF Will Not Sanction Mayweather-Alexander (Brook is Mandatory)
Dolimite
post Jan 26 2013, 11:01 AM
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QUOTE (KOpower @ Jan 26 2013, 07:53 AM) *
BTW, I would like to see what the PPV numbers would be for a Mayweather-Garcia fight. I am of the opinion that Canelo has been a MAJOR boost to Floyd's PPV numbers. I know for me I wouldn't have bought the Mayweather-Ortiz fight if there wasn't Canelo on the undercard. It isn't so much that I like Canelo, I just have interest in watching him. I also think Canelo vs Mosley really boosted the Cotto card's PPV numbers...young champion vs old veteran.

I would not even consider buying Mayweather-RG. That fight upsets me because I don't think Robert has earned a MEGA fight like that...but throw Canelo on the undercard against a LIVE fighter like Angulo, Kirkland, or especially TROUT? That is a GREAT test for Canelo and it makes the card a must-buy for me. I would like to see the numbers Mayweather does with a dud opponent like Garcia WITHOUT the help of a great 2nd star.

Now maybe GBP steps up and gives us a good undercard fight that doesn't involve Canelo. Maybe they put Broner on there against a really live opponent. That would be great and it would make me buy a Mayweather-Garcia fight.


If that were the case then the Red Head can fight on his own PPV card and do great numbers. Hispanics do buy PPV but so do a lot people and non casual fans. Saul maybe popular amongst his people but let's face it he isn't a house hold name just yet he would be if he were to fight QUALITY opponents but he is sticking to Welter Weights and Junior Welter Weights for his competition. If Saul can put asses in the seats of big arenas and get people to fork over 50 bucks to see him fight then I would say your point is valid but let's face it, Cotto has a Mega following and so does Mayweather, Canelo helped but they would have done good PPV numbers without him. Golden Boy is cashing in on Mayweather and Saul at the same damn time at the same damn time, and I can't knock them for that. I hardly think Mayweather is on his hands and knees begging Saul to be on his undercard. Just a guess in my opinion. Mayweather's opponent will be a deciding factor on how well his PPV can do, his last opponents people wanted to tune in and watch and they did, Ortiz, Shane, and Cotto those were all opponents people wanted to see Mayweather fight (except for Ortiz maybe) but his story was a good one even thought it was mostly BS.
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The Original MrF...
post Jan 27 2013, 12:57 AM
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QUOTE (duwdu @ Jan 25 2013, 02:40 AM) *
Funny...you're doing exactly the sort of thing you're condemning others for. Just like you say others were "giving Floyd the win for fights that did not happen/has not happened," you're equally cock-sure Floyd would not fight some guys. This, in spite of the fact that none of those careers is yet to end, at least not technically. So, you can deduce, and others cannot?

What then becomes of your thought process IF, in this case, Floyd eventually does fight either Canelo, or Sergio, or both?

P34c3



Really dude?? First of all, I wasnt the person who said that, it was Cshell. I simply agreed. But since you brought me into it, let me retort. People on this website and many others that I visit give Floyd Mayweather a pass for not fighting certain guys because they believe he'd blow them out of the water. With that pass, Floyd avoided guys in and around his weightclass like Margarito and Paul Williams. The excuses from the Mayweather camp were plenty. So we have history on our side.

Nowhere did I(or Cshell) say people cant deduce or speculate, thats just silly. I think since history is on our side here, Mayweather will take the easiest path by fighting Guerrero. he wont fight Trout or Canelo because those fights will be much more difficult. Guerrero is a smaller guy and doesnt have the power of a natural 154 pounder. If somehow Floyd signs to fight either of those 2 big 154 pounders, then i will walk back in here and say I was wrong. I seriously doubt I'll have to make that walk though. Let me also make this clear. Guerrero will not be an easy fight. its much more winnable than Trout or Canelo, but not so easy.
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The Original MrF...
post Jan 27 2013, 01:30 AM
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With all this speculation about who Mayweather will fight in May or September, lets look at history. When Margarito beat Cotto, he became the biggest name at 147. Margarito beat Cotto in 2008 and Williams destroyed Carlos Quintanna in their rematch in 2008. Mayweather was fresh off of the Hatton fight at 147 in late 2007. All 3 guys were kings at 147. Either guy would have been a huuuge fight for Mayweather. Both Williams and Margarito were in their prime and BIG welterweights. The money would have been there, no question... What did Mayweather do?? He retired... Only to come back when the field was again clear. Margarito had moved on and been beaten to a pulp by Mosley. Williams moved up to 154 and 160. Mayweather came back in 2009 when these guys were all gone and took on the best 135 pounder in the business because JMM had the nerve to call him out.

Here we are in 2013... Trout and Canelo are 2 BIG 154 pounders primed and ready to fight. Trout is coming off beating Cotto up. Guerrero who happens to be a guy who came from 135 calls Mayweather out and now we'll see what happens. 2013 is eerily similar to 2008. Maybe he'll just announce his retirement from the sport.
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Dolimite
post Jan 27 2013, 06:44 PM
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QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Jan 26 2013, 10:30 PM) *
With all this speculation about who Mayweather will fight in May or September, lets look at history. When Margarito beat Cotto, he became the biggest name at 147. Margarito beat Cotto in 2008 and Williams destroyed Carlos Quintanna in their rematch in 2008. Mayweather was fresh off of the Hatton fight at 147 in late 2007. All 3 guys were kings at 147. Either guy would have been a huuuge fight for Mayweather. Both Williams and Margarito were in their prime and BIG welterweights. The money would have been there, no question... What did Mayweather do?? He retired... Only to come back when the field was again clear. Margarito had moved on and been beaten to a pulp by Mosley. Williams moved up to 154 and 160. Mayweather came back in 2009 when these guys were all gone and took on the best 135 pounder in the business because JMM had the nerve to call him out.

Here we are in 2013... Trout and Canelo are 2 BIG 154 pounders primed and ready to fight. Trout is coming off beating Cotto up. Guerrero who happens to be a guy who came from 135 calls Mayweather out and now we'll see what happens. 2013 is eerily similar to 2008. Maybe he'll just announce his retirement from the sport.


That is an interesting theory. Before the Hatton fight he said he was going to take a break, that was when everyone was saying that he was afraid of facing Pacquiao. Margarito is a slow fighter and Paul Williams I don't think had a house hold name yet. After Mosley destroyed a loaded glove Margarito, Floyd came back and fought JMM and then put Shane into an early retirement. I don't understand why just because he hasn't fought everyone who called him out he is ducking or taking the easier route. When he called out Shane and Oscar early in his career people were not hearing. Keith "One Time" Thurman called Floyd out as well, if he doesn't fight him is he ducking Thurman? k9 Bunderage called out Floyd on numerous occasion if Floyd does not fight him is he ducking K9? And Floyd has fought big welter weights more dangerous than Margarito and Paul Williams. Oscar De La Hoya, Diego Corrales (RIP), Cotto, are the ones I can think of oh Shane is taller than he. I know Williams is 6'1 but the kid leaves himself far to open and takes too many hits. But it would had been an interesting fight no doubt. A damn interesting one. Mayweather can't fight everyone.

You do make good points.
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The Original MrF...
post Jan 27 2013, 08:16 PM
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QUOTE (Dolimite @ Jan 27 2013, 06:44 PM) *
That is an interesting theory. Before the Hatton fight he said he was going to take a break, that was when everyone was saying that he was afraid of facing Pacquiao. Margarito is a slow fighter and Paul Williams I don't think had a house hold name yet. After Mosley destroyed a loaded glove Margarito, Floyd came back and fought JMM and then put Shane into an early retirement. I don't understand why just because he hasn't fought everyone who called him out he is ducking or taking the easier route. When he called out Shane and Oscar early in his career people were not hearing. Keith "One Time" Thurman called Floyd out as well, if he doesn't fight him is he ducking Thurman? k9 Bunderage called out Floyd on numerous occasion if Floyd does not fight him is he ducking K9? And Floyd has fought big welter weights more dangerous than Margarito and Paul Williams. Oscar De La Hoya, Diego Corrales (RIP), Cotto, are the ones I can think of oh Shane is taller than he. I know Williams is 6'1 but the kid leaves himself far to open and takes too many hits. But it would had been an interesting fight no doubt. A damn interesting one. Mayweather can't fight everyone.

You do make good points.


Just curious... Why are people so quick to defend a guy who hasnt delivered the goods we would like. Do you defend the mailman when he doesnt bring you all of your mail. "You know, well it was raining and the ground was muddy. He just delivered a few of my letters. He couldnt deliver all of them, especially my paycheck." Same thing with Mayweather. Let me ask, did you want to see him fight Marquez or Margarito? Marquez or Williams? As a fight fan, I wanted Williams or Margarito. When both were coming off big wins, he retired. He came back conveniently when the air was clear. He came back to fight the best 135 pounder in the world at the time. Thats undeniable history. thats exactly what happened.

And no, I dont think he should fight Thurmond or K9. Thurmond is not a champ at all and hasnt even fought for a title yet. There are better guys at 154 to fight then K9. In 08, Williams and Margarito were the 2 biggest fights to be made at 147. He retired rather than fight. He came back and took a much easier fight against a smaller guy. I credit him for fighting Mosley and Cotto, but both of those should have happend 5 years before. Just like Pacquiao now. Will Mayweather fight Pacquiao now that he's burnt and spent 3 years after the fight should have happened?

I bought the Cotto PPV because I thought Cotto would challenge him. It was anentertaining fight. I wont buy a fight with Malignaggi, Guerrero or anyone not named Trout, Alverez or Martinez. That ship sailed. They can call my Money MrFactor because I like money too. I wont spend it if it aint worth it... I want to see Mayweather fight a fan friendly fight. See if he truly is/was the best of his era.
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Dolimite
post Jan 27 2013, 08:47 PM
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QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Jan 27 2013, 05:16 PM) *
Just curious... Why are people so quick to defend a guy who hasnt delivered the goods we would like. Do you defend the mailman when he doesnt bring you all of your mail. "You know, well it was raining and the ground was muddy. He just delivered a few of my letters. He couldnt deliver all of them, especially my paycheck." Same thing with Mayweather. Let me ask, did you want to see him fight Marquez or Margarito? Marquez or Williams? As a fight fan, I wanted Williams or Margarito. When both were coming off big wins, he retired. He came back conveniently when the air was clear. He came back to fight the best 135 pounder in the world at the time. Thats undeniable history. thats exactly what happened.

And no, I dont think he should fight Thurmond or K9. Thurmond is not a champ at all and hasnt even fought for a title yet. There are better guys at 154 to fight then K9. In 08, Williams and Margarito were the 2 biggest fights to be made at 147. He retired rather than fight. He came back and took a much easier fight against a smaller guy. I credit him for fighting Mosley and Cotto, but both of those should have happend 5 years before. Just like Pacquiao now. Will Mayweather fight Pacquiao now that he's burnt and spent 3 years after the fight should have happened?

I bought the Cotto PPV because I thought Cotto would challenge him. It was anentertaining fight. I wont buy a fight with Malignaggi, Guerrero or anyone not named Trout, Alverez or Martinez. That ship sailed. They can call my Money MrFactor because I like money too. I wont spend it if it aint worth it... I want to see Mayweather fight a fan friendly fight. See if he truly is/was the best of his era.


So you are defining his career based on two fights that you wanted to see. I would not want to see Mayweather fight a slow ass Margarito who has no defense. A typical brawler, boring, counter shots all night. Margarito is a fucking cheater and he beat a Cotto with loaded gloves. Do you honestly think Margarito with Mayweather's defense had a shot? Bert Sugar and he may not know a damn thing about boxing, stated that his fight with Marquez would give Mayweather fits, and it was Marquez who called out Mayweather. He fought the number 2 guy what more would you want? Paul Williams is just tall with an incredible tolerance for punishment. That fight would of ended with a body shot. Again Mayweather said that he was going to retire after the Hatton fight I don't think he was afraid of either Paul or Margarito and let's be honest, both guys were not household names, so even if he did stay in the game do you honestly think he would of fought them? I don't understand how you say he doesn't fight hard competition based on two fighters! Come on.

Again Mayweather will not be fighting either, Trout, Alvarez or Martinez since Trout and Alvarez are suppose to be fighting each other and Sergio already has a fight coming up. Speaking of the red head what the hell has he done to warrant a fight with Mayweather? He hasn't fought a legit 154 fighter and yet you are barking at mayweather for his "dodging?" Really? And Trout, he did beat Cotto and now you think he deserves a fight with Mayweather. Mayweather had to go through three or four fighters just to get to Oscar and Trout beats Cotto and all of the sudden he is proven? Okay...

By the way Mayweather isn't close to being 154 he is a welter weight. So if he ask Trout or Alvarez to come down to welter weight would you call him a coward?
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Marcus
post Jan 27 2013, 08:54 PM
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QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Jan 27 2013, 08:16 PM) *
Just curious... Why are people so quick to defend a guy who hasnt delivered the goods we would like. Do you defend the mailman when he doesnt bring you all of your mail. "You know, well it was raining and the ground was muddy. He just delivered a few of my letters. He couldnt deliver all of them, especially my paycheck." Same thing with Mayweather. Let me ask, did you want to see him fight Marquez or Margarito? Marquez or Williams? As a fight fan, I wanted Williams or Margarito. When both were coming off big wins, he retired. He came back conveniently when the air was clear. He came back to fight the best 135 pounder in the world at the time. Thats undeniable history. thats exactly what happened.

And no, I dont think he should fight Thurmond or K9. Thurmond is not a champ at all and hasnt even fought for a title yet. There are better guys at 154 to fight then K9. In 08, Williams and Margarito were the 2 biggest fights to be made at 147. He retired rather than fight. He came back and took a much easier fight against a smaller guy. I credit him for fighting Mosley and Cotto, but both of those should have happend 5 years before. Just like Pacquiao now. Will Mayweather fight Pacquiao now that he's burnt and spent 3 years after the fight should have happened?

I bought the Cotto PPV because I thought Cotto would challenge him. It was anentertaining fight. I wont buy a fight with Malignaggi, Guerrero or anyone not named Trout, Alverez or Martinez. That ship sailed. They can call my Money MrFactor because I like money too. I wont spend it if it aint worth it... I want to see Mayweather fight a fan friendly fight. See if he truly is/was the best of his era.


The margarito point is completely invalid because Margarito was with top Rank. Floyd JUST LEFT top rank to fight de la hoya in 07. The beef between himself and arum was fresh. A Mayweather margarito fight in 08 was less likely then a mayweather pacquiao fight in 2013. That has nothing to do with ducking and everything to do with business. And mayweather beat the man that massacred a cheating Margarito so whats your point?...
The Paul Williams argument is understandable. The Marquez argument is understandable and still Marquez was number 2 P4P and HE called FLOYD out. When ward fought dawson DAWSON called ward out. Ward didnt go up to 175 to fight. And Paul Williams vs Mayweather wouldnt gross nearly as much as mayweather marquez. Marquez is oe of the rop 3 mexican fighters of all time. Who is williams now? Where will he stand in history?...stop it. If you call someone out you fight at their weight class. Yes marquez was 135 but since you like to bring history up.. history shows marquez called floyd out. But to say mayweather "ducked" Maragarito like he didnt JUST leave top tank with bad blood boiling between himself and arum. No ones defending no one. Thats just a dumb argument.
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Marcus
post Jan 27 2013, 08:56 PM
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QUOTE (Dolimite @ Jan 27 2013, 08:47 PM) *
So you are defining his career based on two fights that you wanted to see. I would not want to see Mayweather fight a slow ass Margarito who has no defense. A typical brawler, boring, counter shots all night. Margarito is a fucking cheater and he beat a Cotto with loaded gloves. Do you honestly think Margarito with Mayweather's defense had a shot? Bert Sugar and he may not know a damn thing about boxing, stated that his fight with Marquez would give Mayweather fits, and it was Marquez who called out Mayweather. He fought the number 2 guy what more would you want? Paul Williams is just tall with an incredible tolerance for punishment. That fight would of ended with a body shot. Again Mayweather said that he was going to retire after the Hatton fight I don't think he was afraid of either Paul or Margarito and let's be honest, both guys were not household names, so even if he did stay in the game do you honestly think he would of fought them? I don't understand how you say he doesn't fight hard competition based on two fighters! Come on.

Again Mayweather will not be fighting either, Trout, Alvarez or Martinez since Trout and Alvarez are suppose to be fighting each other and Sergio already has a fight coming up. Speaking of the red head what the hell has he done to warrant a fight with Mayweather? He hasn't fought a legit 154 fighter and yet you are barking at mayweather for his "dodging?" Really? And Trout, he did beat Cotto and now you think he deserves a fight with Mayweather. Mayweather had to go through three or four fighters just to get to Oscar and Trout beats Cotto and all of the sudden he is proven? Okay...

By the way Mayweather isn't close to being 154 he is a welter weight. So if he ask Trout or Alvarez to come down to welter weight would you call him a coward?


Preach...
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checkleft
post Jan 27 2013, 10:06 PM
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QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Jan 27 2013, 02:30 AM) *
With all this speculation about who Mayweather will fight in May or September, lets look at history. When Margarito beat Cotto, he became the biggest name at 147. Margarito beat Cotto in 2008 and Williams destroyed Carlos Quintanna in their rematch in 2008. Mayweather was fresh off of the Hatton fight at 147 in late 2007. All 3 guys were kings at 147. Either guy would have been a huuuge fight for Mayweather. Both Williams and Margarito were in their prime and BIG welterweights. The money would have been there, no question... What did Mayweather do?? He retired... Only to come back when the field was again clear. Margarito had moved on and been beaten to a pulp by Mosley. Williams moved up to 154 and 160. Mayweather came back in 2009 when these guys were all gone and took on the best 135 pounder in the business because JMM had the nerve to call him out.

Here we are in 2013... Trout and Canelo are 2 BIG 154 pounders primed and ready to fight. Trout is coming off beating Cotto up. Guerrero who happens to be a guy who came from 135 calls Mayweather out and now we'll see what happens. 2013 is eerily similar to 2008. Maybe he'll just announce his retirement from the sport.

dude didnt williams lose to quintana at that time? why in the hell would the best p4p fighter fight a guy who got schooled by a mediocre fighter?
and why do you think margs was so hyped up? TR was making it seem like floyd was ducking margs when in reality that fight had no chance of being made because floyd had just gotten through ugly litigation with TR. A few years before Arum said floyd was "ducking" margs and cotto he said floyd was the most talented and complete fighter since Ali, after floyd gets out of his contract with him he says hes boring?? come on now put 1 and 1 together
QUOTE (Marcus @ Jan 27 2013, 09:54 PM) *
The margarito point is completely invalid because Margarito was with top Rank. Floyd JUST LEFT top rank to fight de la hoya in 07. The beef between himself and arum was fresh. A Mayweather margarito fight in 08 was less likely then a mayweather pacquiao fight in 2013. That has nothing to do with ducking and everything to do with business. And mayweather beat the man that massacred a cheating Margarito so whats your point?...
The Paul Williams argument is understandable. The Marquez argument is understandable and still Marquez was number 2 P4P and HE called FLOYD out. When ward fought dawson DAWSON called ward out. Ward didnt go up to 175 to fight. And Paul Williams vs Mayweather wouldnt gross nearly as much as mayweather marquez. Marquez is oe of the rop 3 mexican fighters of all time. Who is williams now? Where will he stand in history?...stop it. If you call someone out you fight at their weight class. Yes marquez was 135 but since you like to bring history up.. history shows marquez called floyd out. But to say mayweather "ducked" Maragarito like he didnt JUST leave top tank with bad blood boiling between himself and arum. No ones defending no one. Thats just a dumb argument.

good post
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The Original MrF...
post Jan 28 2013, 01:09 AM
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QUOTE (Dolimite @ Jan 27 2013, 08:47 PM) *
So you are defining his career based on two fights that you wanted to see. I would not want to see Mayweather fight a slow ass Margarito who has no defense. A typical brawler, boring, counter shots all night. Margarito is a fucking cheater and he beat a Cotto with loaded gloves. Do you honestly think Margarito with Mayweather's defense had a shot? Bert Sugar and he may not know a damn thing about boxing, stated that his fight with Marquez would give Mayweather fits, and it was Marquez who called out Mayweather. He fought the number 2 guy what more would you want? Paul Williams is just tall with an incredible tolerance for punishment. That fight would of ended with a body shot. Again Mayweather said that he was going to retire after the Hatton fight I don't think he was afraid of either Paul or Margarito and let's be honest, both guys were not household names, so even if he did stay in the game do you honestly think he would of fought them? I don't understand how you say he doesn't fight hard competition based on two fighters! Come on.


I'm not defining his career based on that, but the lack of those names at that weight class lend credence to the fact that he's not the greatest as he claims. Margarito was slow, but took a licking and kept on ticking. Cotto made Margarito look slow and flat footed, as with many of his previous opponents. Along with Cotto he beat them though. He may or may not have had illegal wraps for Cotto. It was up to Cotto's people to check that. And yes, the Margarito who beat Cotto would have had a great shot to beat Mayweather. Margarito was a guy who didnt give up a reach advantage to Mayweather, so he could hit Mayweather from distance. Out of his lats 10 or so opponents, only DLH had a reach advantage. His team uses clever match making in order to seal his victories. Margarito and Williams had reach advantages, that he may not have been able to overcome. he had difficulty with DLH's reach advantage. I think he would have had equal difficulty with Williams and Margarito who were each in their prime and both guys had no problem throwing 100+ punches per round.


QUOTE (Dolimite @ Jan 27 2013, 08:47 PM) *
Again Mayweather will not be fighting either, Trout, Alvarez or Martinez since Trout and Alvarez are suppose to be fighting each other and Sergio already has a fight coming up. Speaking of the red head what the hell has he done to warrant a fight with Mayweather? He hasn't fought a legit 154 fighter and yet you are barking at mayweather for his "dodging?" Really? And Trout, he did beat Cotto and now you think he deserves a fight with Mayweather. Mayweather had to go through three or four fighters just to get to Oscar and Trout beats Cotto and all of the sudden he is proven? Okay...

Trout beat Cotto and made a name for himself. If not Trout, then who? Alverez? Guerrero? Malignaggi?I have no problem with that. Mayweather went through Chambre Mitchel(really?), Zab Judah and Carlos Baldomir to get to DLH. Thats murderers row? Is that an accomplishment to be proud of. Is he to be mentioned in the same air as SRR and SRL because of that murderers row to get the DLH fight? Where are your standards?! Somehow he missed tough guys like Margarito, Clottey, Williams and Cotto who all somehow found each other to some degree during that time. Mayweather didnt want any parts of the young guys in their prime. Just like now...

QUOTE (Dolimite @ Jan 27 2013, 08:47 PM) *
the way Mayweather isn't close to being 154 he is a welter weight. So if he ask Trout or Alvarez to come down to welter weight would you call him a coward?

Didnt he beat Cotto for the 154 pound belt? I'm just askin'... Isnt Mayweather one of the 154lb champs? Just sayin... This is just silly. Again, giving yer guy a pass, just like in 2007. I guess, he'll make the announcement that he's retiring soon.
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