[STEVENSKI]

... even ali who is not considered a pure puncher did a better job of stopping top flight opponents and closing the show like what a heavy weight champ is expected to do and he fought better comp than these guys... that has to count for something....

It does. Look at how Clay is nowdays. He sure is sharp & still had the shuffle at the 96 Olympics. Somehow I doubt either brother will end up with their brains mush. Boxing is the art of hitting & not getting hit & that is exactly what they do. They happen to do it very well.

Boxing is not about knocking your opponent out it is about winninng more rounds than they do & if it happens you may get a KO.

[The Ollie Reed F...]

It does. Look at how Clay is nowdays. He sure is sharp & still had the shuffle at the 96 Olympics. Somehow I doubt either brother will end up with their brains mush. Boxing is the art of hitting & not getting hit & that is exactly what they do. They happen to do it very well.

Boxing is not about knocking your opponent out it is about winninng more rounds than they do & if it happens you may get a KO.

Clay used to spar without headgear and boxed on way too long. He also faced some monsters in Norton and Foreman that the brothers will not have to encounter. Ali's condition has little to do with how many guys he knocked out Steve and you know it. I think you may just be baiting our American bretheran (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[Guest_Fitz_*]

I actually think more of Vitali than Wlad. Vitali has dominated guys that have gave Wlad trouble, in my opinion he could have beat Lewis if not for the cut, and his only losses are from retiring from a fight due to torn rotator cuff and the cut vs Lewis.

And I think if these two weren't related Vitali would be holding every belt other than Haye's.

With me, I did rate Vitali higher than Wlad. I think Vitali is more of a fighter than Wlad, he is more game, and tougher. Though I think I give Wlad the edge in the skills department, I think he is slightly better skilled than Vitali.
I only rate Wlad higher now on a p4p list because I think he has done more. Unfortunately, with my p4p list, I pretty much ignored what Vitali did before he retired, so I look at it from then.

Vitali: After retirement
Peter (WBC title that Vitali got for being a 'Super champion' before he retired)
Gomez
Arreola
Johnson
Sonowski
Briggs

Wlad: Since Vitali retired
Castillo
Peter
Byrd (to become IBF champion)
Brock
Austin
Brewster
Ibragimov (claimed the WBO title and unified)
Thompson
Rahman
Chagaev
Chambers
Peter

That's the only reason I have Wlad higher than Vitali. I don't think much separates them as fighters, I just think Wlad has done quite a bit more, against more opposition, better opposition and has unified. Wlad took over during the time Vitali was retired.
Also interesting about the point you bring up about Vitali beating some guys more clearly than Wlad. Not wrong there. Though I remember before Vitali retired, Vitali pulled out of a fight about 3-4 times with Rahman due to injury? In the end, some people implied that Vitali feared him. It didn't look good for Vitali, but I always found it strange, as I always thought Vitali would have made Rahman become another knockout highlight reel, lol.

Now onto the mythical match up. If they weren't brothers? I don't know, never really thought about if they weren't brothers, though I do think Wlad is more polished as a fighter, but like I said earlier, Vitali seems more game.
The scenario I have thought about in a mythical match up is if they actually did fight (as brothers), that Vitali wins. I just think Vitali is mentally tougher than Wlad, and Wlad seems to have a bit more bitch in him, and I could see him almost having a submissive mind against the bigger and older brother. Sometimes dad's have that effect on sons. Just that psychological edge that he probably always had when they were growing up, and I think it would play a factor, especially the type of people they seem to be. They don't strike me as a family that have full on fights, they look like they love each other, so I think that submissive mentality would always be with Wlad, and big brother would always have it over him, lol.

[JLUVBABY]

It does. Look at how Clay is nowdays. He sure is sharp & still had the shuffle at the 96 Olympics. Somehow I doubt either brother will end up with their brains mush. Boxing is the art of hitting & not getting hit & that is exactly what they do. They happen to do it very well.

Boxing is not about knocking your opponent out it is about winninng more rounds than they do & if it happens you may get a KO.

i understand the fact that you are a fan of the two brothers, so am i, but they are not the great champions one would like to believe.... both are very beatable...

[gbh32001]

Klitchko's are best boxing sportsman, but to include them in P4P list is a joke to me.

[King Eugene]

With Vitali's style, size(meaning he'd be a lot bigger than most opposition in any weight class), timing, and grit to fight he'd probably be dominant at any division. He's not the fastest but he has precision timing. He uses his size very well(which I wish PWill would do) and takes full advantage of his reach. He might be very beatable but haven't a soul proved it.

[Guest_Fitz_*]

With Vitali's style, size(meaning he'd be a lot bigger than most opposition in any weight class), timing, and grit to fight he'd probably be dominant at any division. He's not the fastest but he has precision timing. He uses his size very well(which I wish PWill would do) and takes full advantage of his reach. He might be very beatable but haven't a soul proved it.

I agree. Especially about the size advantage he would always have against majority regardless on a p4p scale.

[SmartyBeardo]

With Vitali's style, size(meaning he'd be a lot bigger than most opposition in any weight class), timing, and grit to fight he'd probably be dominant at any division. He's not the fastest but he has precision timing. He uses his size very well(which I wish PWill would do) and takes full advantage of his reach. He might be very beatable but haven't a soul proved it.

I have to disagree with you, KE. But, I'm not sure I understand exactly what you are saying. That is the problem with putting HWs in the P4P mix.

Are you suggesting that Big Sister be considered at his same height and speed transposed to the different weights? I don't think you are because if that were the case the older Klit would stand no chance in any other weight class, with the exception of Cruiser. He would be cut down like an unhealthy tree.

But, even if you meant that he would be the second or third tallest in every division, I can't see him being the #1 guy in most of them. There is just too much worthy top level competition in most of the divisions. He would be out-boxed and punished in most other divisions, the same way he would be if he was somehow dropped into the 70s HW Div mix.

This is not meant as a put down to Big Sis. Marciano, Louis, Tyson and Lewis would have suffered the same fate in that time warp.

IMO, Big Klit would not be more than top 5 in any division 168 down.

That does not matter though. It also does not matter what would have happened to him in the 70s. He is the King of the HW hill in this era. Nobody can take that away from him (not even his brother) anymore than they can take away that fact about Jack Johnson, Louis, Marciano, Ali, or Holmes.

He would KO Wlad like a tuna on a boat deck, BTW.

This post has been edited by SmartyBeardo: Oct 20 2010, 08:27 AM

[gravytrain]

It does. Look at how Clay is nowdays. He sure is sharp & still had the shuffle at the 96 Olympics. Somehow I doubt either brother will end up with their brains mush. Boxing is the art of hitting & not getting hit & that is exactly what they do. They happen to do it very well.

Boxing is not about knocking your opponent out it is about winninng more rounds than they do & if it happens you may get a KO.

Every sport with physical contact has a risk/reward element to it. Ali took the risks, became one of the most famous men ever to walk the earth, entertained the world for years, raised awareness about social issues, and had a billion people watching him fight Foreman alone. I remember reading about someone asking "was it worth it?" to Ali and Ali replied "I would have just been a sign painter in Louisville, Kentucky.".

There are vast differences between hitting and not getting hit and letting guys that wont even hit you stick around with you for 12 rounds. You're not going to build any legacy by doing that. It'd be like thinking Michael Jordan would be in the position he's in if he coasted, scored on some layups, and sat out if he felt a little sick.

[pesticid]

Every sport with physical contact has a risk/reward element to it. Ali took the risks, became one of the most famous men ever to walk the earth, entertained the world for years, raised awareness about social issues, and had a billion people watching him fight Foreman alone. I remember reading about someone asking "was it worth it?" to Ali and Ali replied "I would have just been a sign painter in Louisville, Kentucky.".

There are vast differences between hitting and not getting hit and letting guys that wont even hit you stick around with you for 12 rounds. You're not going to build any legacy by doing that. It'd be like thinking Michael Jordan would be in the position he's in if he coasted, scored on some layups, and sat out if he felt a little sick.

Yeah but how many guys like that that did Lennox fool around without even hurting them bad, thining of Tua and the Croatian guy. How many guys did Larry Holmes did not finish either? I mean why do they get a pass and Vitaly doesn't when only 3 fighters have made it to the final round?