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> Marquez vs. Vasquez II: Round by Round/Postfight, All Comments Here: *Update Post Fight Poll Added!*
Was Marquez-Vasquez II Stopped Too Soon?
Was This Fight Stopped Too Fast?
Yes [ 5 ] ** [71.43%]
No [ 2 ] ** [28.57%]
Undecided [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
Total Votes: 7
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Jack 1000
post Aug 5 2007, 06:09 PM
Post #101


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On the early stoppage debate:

I think some are misreading into our assessments of why I and others believe it was stopped a bit too soon. We aren't asking for these guys to go out on a stretcher, or get seriously hurt, all we are saying is give the hurt boxer in a big fight of this nature that added 15-20 seconds, to see if he can recover. Sure, Marquez was in bad shape, but he wasn't in BAAAAD shape and was fighting back. If Garcia had worked any Gatti fights, we NEVER would have seen any of Gatti's great comeback wins, we never would have seen the great comeback of Corrales in the first Castillo fight after being down twice to stop Castillo in the same round. All that is being suggested is that Marquez and Vasquez are those TYPES of guys who have shown great recovery from being hurt. As said above, maybe 15 seconds longer would have resolved the whole issue. I also agree that the bigger fights with more on the line, should go on for longer period of time, than some Olympic or 4-round pro debut thing. To me that's just common sense. Greater rewards that come about with major title fights often produce greater risks. That's part of being a fighter. But what is even more important is the assigned ref to know the history of the ability of these fighters to recover from knockdowns and being hurt. If you have a fighter with strong recoup ability fighting in a world championship with everything on the line, you the ref might and should react to a fighter of this type getting hurt diifferently as opposed to two ESPN palooka's going 6 rounds. If you as a ref can't or don't want to see the difference in working those kinds of fights, I believe that that ref should not be working big fights.

Jack
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Lil-lightsout
post Aug 5 2007, 07:46 PM
Post #102


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Great post Jack(as usual), that's how I feel about the stoppage.
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NickBarker
post Aug 6 2007, 12:57 PM
Post #103


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Right on, Jack.
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rusty_trombone
post Aug 6 2007, 04:38 PM
Post #104


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QUOTE(Jack 1000 @ Aug 5 2007, 07:09 PM) [snapback]352804[/snapback]
On the early stoppage debate:

I think some are misreading into our assessments of why I and others believe it was stopped a bit too soon. We aren't asking for these guys to go out on a stretcher, or get seriously hurt, all we are saying is give the hurt boxer in a big fight of this nature that added 15-20 seconds, to see if he can recover. Sure, Marquez was in bad shape, but he wasn't in BAAAAD shape and was fighting back. If Garcia had worked any Gatti fights, we NEVER would have seen any of Gatti's great comeback wins, we never would have seen the great comeback of Corrales in the first Castillo fight after being down twice to stop Castillo in the same round. All that is being suggested is that Marquez and Vasquez are those TYPES of guys who have shown great recovery from being hurt. As said above, maybe 15 seconds longer would have resolved the whole issue. I also agree that the bigger fights with more on the line, should go on for longer period of time, than some Olympic or 4-round pro debut thing. To me that's just common sense. Greater rewards that come about with major title fights often produce greater risks. That's part of being a fighter. But what is even more important is the assigned ref to know the history of the ability of these fighters to recover from knockdowns and being hurt. If you have a fighter with strong recoup ability fighting in a world championship with everything on the line, you the ref might and should react to a fighter of this type getting hurt diifferently as opposed to two ESPN palooka's going 6 rounds. If you as a ref can't or don't want to see the difference in working those kinds of fights, I believe that that ref should not be working big fights.

Jack

I agree. Good post.
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Southeastpaw
post Aug 6 2007, 04:59 PM
Post #105


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Definitely a good post Jack. The ref was just doing the best job he knew how. I don't doubt that he is a good ref for having a job reffing big fights. Man has to know what he is looking at, more so than us. But I remember yellin at the TV to stop the fight. It probably should have gone on a few more seconds, but you gotta take everything into account in that fight. If you have recorded the fight, take a look at how each fighter looks in their corners in the last 2 or 3 rounds brfore the stoppage. Marquez did not look good. Marquez was moving on the ropes, but was getting tagged very flush. While Gatti has taken much punishment in many fights, it has also taken it's toll on him, as it has Corrales, Castillo and such. And Gatti has a history of taking clean sot after clean shot. Marquez does not. But If you really go back and watch Marquez between those last few rounds, he looked beat. He had no legs. In between rounds he looked more of a beat fighter than I can remember seeing Gatti or Corrales against Castillo when they were sitting on their stools.. Rewatch. I think that the ref was taking everything into consideration and watching Rafi's eyes and reflexes. Both were pretty much shot at the time of the stoppage.

I agree with what you posted Jack for the most part, and I know most agree wholeheartedly, but I still do not believe that the stoppage was that bad. Like you said, it probably should have gone on a tad bit, just a tad though. But I do not think that the ref was horrible and these guys are trained to know what to look for. Moreso than we are.
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torvix2000
post Aug 8 2007, 04:00 AM
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QUOTE(Southeastpaw @ Aug 6 2007, 09:59 PM) [snapback]353013[/snapback]
And Gatti has a history of taking clean sot after clean shot. Marquez does not. But If you really go back and watch Marquez between those last few rounds, he looked beat. He had no legs. In between rounds he looked more of a beat fighter than I can remember seeing Gatti or Corrales against Castillo when they were sitting on their stools.. Rewatch. I think that the ref was taking everything into consideration and watching Rafi's eyes and reflexes. Both were pretty much shot at the time of the stoppage.


Thanks Southeastpaw. I thought it was a premature stoppage. I did what you said and watched the fight again. Raffy was done by the time of the stoppage. He's simply punching just for the sake of punching while Vazquez was ignoring his shots whether they land or not. I think that's what prompted the ref to stop the fight.
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Imperius3
post Aug 10 2007, 05:09 AM
Post #107


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Wow, what a fight! I had expected Marquez to make improvements (especially to defend against the left hook), but it seems Vazquez did instead. Some quick thoughts:

I thought Marquez knocked Vazquez down in the 5th, and it should have been counted. I also thought the fight was stopped a little early. Great fight though, and I'm looking forward to the rubbermatch.
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