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> Mayweather VS Cotto, who wins and why?
and the NEW
post Dec 10 2007, 07:43 PM
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QUOTE(The Ring Dictator @ Dec 10 2007, 12:02 PM) [snapback]369729[/snapback]
You were probably referring to Mayweathers personality when you, in another post, said he is one of the "strangest" talents to grace the sport(?), but speaking about strange... Williams! That dude is beyond strange. And a very welcomed freak in the sport (we miss you Hearns). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


Yes, the style of Williams, including the height, makes him very strange! An awkward customer! Hearns was not too strange, very tall, magnificent boxer, who never knew when to tie up!

What makes Mayweather so weird for me, is not his personality, Zab, Roy are similar to him, giant egos and money obsessessed!

The fact that Mayweather knows EXACTLY when to tie up, when to turn out, when to dance, the fact that he watches every single thing and uses his timing to hit all kinds of little openings he sees with that incredible vision and the fact that he can use that shoulder so damn well, is what makes him so so strange. I have never seen anything quiet like him in the history of the sport. Even watching footage on the other defensive wizards like Benny Leonard, Willie Pep or even a guy like Pea, just dont quiet do it like Mayweather. They are more cagey and movers, keeping out of the killzone and using subtle head movements. Mayweather can just lie on the ropes, make opponents miss and watch everything enabling him to pick them off at the same time. Very very weird indeed! He just seems to suck their energy out of them while his own back is on the ropes, incredible capability to just be able to absorb it with so much ease! Kind of reminds me of a black hole, that just sucks things in and then destroys them. He used the same style against Hatton, against Ndou, and these were two of his most brutal, destructive and impressive fights. He ruined Ndou, lets hope he didnt ruin Hatton.....

This post has been edited by and the NEW: Dec 10 2007, 07:45 PM
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BigG
post Dec 10 2007, 07:49 PM
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^ I agree. Weather you like PBF or not, you have to admit, that skill-wise, he might be top 5 of all time.
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and the NEW
post Dec 10 2007, 08:01 PM
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Mayweather is one of the very best out there, I have no doubt about that!

Dont really rank P4P all-time, way too complex for me, think Ive only ever attempted to rank the lights and welters top 10-15, but then splitting the divisions into P4P is even harder.

Only Ray Robinson and Ray Leonard are clearly above Mayweather for me as far as what they accomplished. Mayweather has now dominated the sport for just as long as any of the other guys (from Duran, Gans, Benny Leonard), beat nearly as many, if not as many top quality fighters, and while doing it, remained undefeated! That alone has barely been done before! His still yet to meet that bogey man, that most other great come up against, and as of now, he has nearly cleaned out every good/great fighter from 130 to 154. Thats my opinion at least and remember argueing it years back, but now he has added DLH and Hatton to his resume, it just confirms it more in my mind.
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BigG
post Dec 10 2007, 08:03 PM
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Yeah. in terms of legacies, there are guys out there greater then Floyd (Leonard, Robinson) BUT you definitely can't find many in history that are more skilled and talented then Floyd. Mayweather will be a very hard fighter to beat.
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and the NEW
post Dec 10 2007, 08:10 PM
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Most definately. Not to mention, he is the kind of fighter who can really adapt. He showed against Corley, Ndou, Hatton, that he can stand in there and trade if he wants, and he showed against guys like DLH, Corrales, Castillo that he can box. Then he showed against guys like Mitchell and Zab another quality all-together, that he can actually pressure the fight and walk a man down should they try to counter punch themselves in order to throw his natural style out.

One of the most adaptable fighters out there, if not the most, which would always help immensly if he did come up against a bogey man and have to fight a rematch! Castillo looked like he could be that man, but Floyds lead right and generalship got him out of that one!
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post Dec 10 2007, 08:18 PM
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QUOTE(and the NEW @ Dec 10 2007, 07:43 PM) [snapback]369872[/snapback]
Yes, the style of Williams, including the height, makes him very strange! An awkward customer! Hearns was not too strange, very tall, magnificent boxer, who never knew when to tie up!

What makes Mayweather so weird for me, is not his personality, Zab, Roy are similar to him, giant egos and money obsessessed!

The fact that Mayweather knows EXACTLY when to tie up, when to turn out, when to dance, the fact that he watches every single thing and uses his timing to hit all kinds of little openings he sees with that incredible vision and the fact that he can use that shoulder so damn well, is what makes him so so strange. I have never seen anything quiet like him in the history of the sport. Even watching footage on the other defensive wizards like Benny Leonard, Willie Pep or even a guy like Pea, just dont quiet do it like Mayweather. They are more cagey and movers, keeping out of the killzone and using subtle head movements. Mayweather can just lie on the ropes, make opponents miss and watch everything enabling him to pick them off at the same time. Very very weird indeed! He just seems to suck their energy out of them while his own back is on the ropes, incredible capability to just be able to absorb it with so much ease! Kind of reminds me of a black hole, that just sucks things in and then destroys them. He used the same style against Hatton, against Ndou, and these were two of his most brutal, destructive and impressive fights. He ruined Ndou, lets hope he didnt ruin Hatton.....


Good post .......... And I think all the qualities you described is what make him soo difficult to beat. If you focus too much on one aspect of his game you will pay a price for forgetting the other parts of his game. And this is where hatton and his trainer made critical mistakes. You cannot just think that you can bull-rush and smother a guy like floyd and win. You have to have a plan for every aspect of floyds game to beat him. And then you have to execute to perfection in each area. And there haven't been any fighter's out there who could do it. Floyd doesn't seem to lose his focus during a fight and he doesn't seem to get tired during a fight. Very good preparation, Very good awareness, and very good skillset.

There will always be the bogie man out there with the lucky shot of a lifetime {aka Tarver} but that lucky shot is the only thing that will probally take floyd down IMO.

Because you can forget about outboxing him, and you can forget about out thinking him during a fight.
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and the NEW
post Dec 10 2007, 08:33 PM
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Yeh, see a guy like Hearns would be the most BRUTAL fight for Floyd! But Hearns is a once in a century type of fighter! Not to mention, Mayweather is BY FAR the naturally smaller guy, so the matchup is kind of unfair.

I think the fighter to beat Floyd would be more measured in their attack with a good jab of their own, similar to Oscar and Castillo, not just walking into the killzone carelessly, as Corrales and Hatton did (this enables Floyd to hit you too easily). They also need to RAKE the body all night long and have a HUGE body punch. Another thing they need is great fitness, keep their hands HIGH (DLH did this well) and throw a loopy right hand (similar to Mosley). Cotto has most of these things, if he can just learn to throw a loopy right hand better.

Another thing you need to do is throw punches from unconventional angles (a guy like Mayorga, Corley, though this is hard to do unless you started doing it young) as Mayweather cannot see these coming and use that vision to roll with them and cover using his shoulder. You would really need to prepare for Maywaether as a totally seperate fight, practicing every aspect in training and then execute it well, but no doubt, it can be done! Every fighter can be beaten!



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post Dec 10 2007, 08:50 PM
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QUOTE(and the NEW @ Dec 10 2007, 08:33 PM) [snapback]369887[/snapback]
Yeh, see a guy like Hearns would be the most BRUTAL fight for Floyd! But Hearns is a once in a century type of fighter! Not to mention, Mayweather is BY FAR the naturally smaller guy, so the matchup is kind of unfair.

I think the fighter to beat Floyd would be more measured in their attack with a good jab of their own, similar to Oscar and Castillo, not just walking into the killzone carelessly, as Corrales and Hatton did (this enables Floyd to hit you too easily). They also need to RAKE the body all night long and have a HUGE body punch. Another thing they need is great fitness, keep their hands HIGH (DLH did this well) and throw a loopy right hand (similar to Mosley). Cotto has most of these things, if he can just learn to throw a loopy right hand better.

Another thing you need to do is throw punches from unconventional angles (a guy like Mayorga, Corley, though this is hard to do unless you started doing it young) as Mayweather cannot see these coming and use that vision to roll with them and cover using his shoulder. You would really need to prepare for Maywaether as a totally seperate fight, practicing every aspect in training and then execute it well, but no doubt, it can be done! Every fighter can be beaten!


Here's the thing though, every fighter approches a fight with floyd like this {Here is the thing I can do to beat him} There is no one THING!!!!!. You have to be multi-facetted with a dynamic approch to winning. You have to have {Like you stated} an inside gameplan, an outside gameplan, and a dynamic gameplan {That changes based on what is happening} If you come into the fight with that one thing, floyd will see it and change his stragegy instantly.

Its like what the announcer stated on either SKYBox or HBO, floyd is studying what you're doing during the fight and making changes to his game at the same time. Which shows how dynamic he is to alter what he's doing during the middle of a fight at will. The hatton fight is a very good example, hatton and his trainer kept saying that hattons style will cause all kinds of problems for floyd. BUT WHAT HAPPENS IF RICKY'S STYLE DOESN'T HAVE THE EFFECT YOU EXPECTED, THEN WHAT????? In this regard ricky is and was one-dimensional because when he saw that floyd was dealing with the pressure very well, he had no plan B to execute.
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post Dec 10 2007, 09:02 PM
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In this fight, I saw a level of toughness and ferocity in Mayweather that I havent seen since the Chico fight. He genuinely wanted to kick Hatton's ass. There was a time that I thought Cotto would beat him up. Not anymore. I think Floyd gives Cotto a beating. Floyd showed he's tough and got a little mean in him. I still dont think he beats Williams, or Margarito because they would hit him too much. I think Floyd can Handle Cintron as well. I just see so many possibilities at WW. They probably wont happen though...
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post Dec 10 2007, 09:06 PM
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I think in terms of PURE TALENT AND SKILL, I would rank Floyd up there with the likes of Robinson, Leonard, Ali, and Jones. When speaking of the combination of skill and grace/style, you can't deny Floyd there.

In terms of his reign and quality of opposition, in truth he falls short of Leonard, Robinson, and Ali. I think even Roy's quality of competition was better. But thats not Mayweather's doing there. He's been in there with legitimate threats and not only beat them, but dominated them all. To say that he would or would not have been able to beat guys like Gavilan, Hearns, Chavez, Duran, Benitez, and others is an exercise in futility. I know I'm gonna get probably get flamed for this one, but I think "Pretty Boy" on his best night, would have been able to beat Julio Cesar Chavez. But thats speculation there. I have no actual proof it would happen but I'm just stating I could make an argument.


Floyd much like a PRIME Roy, was never really challenged. People will say that yeah they fought alot of bums, but in all honesty, who did Roy in his prime not face that would have had a legitimate shot at beating him?.. The only fighter I would have given a shot at beating a prime Roy was Joe Calzaghe. As far as Floyd goes, from 130 pounds all the way to 147 pounds, as of now I honestly cannot see a fighter who can beat him. Not Paul Williams, not Miguel Cotto, definitely not Antonio Margarito. He already beat Oscar who everyone considered a legitimate threat and he wasn't really challenged in that fight either. If you ask me, he had a rather easy time in there. Maybe a rough spot or 2 in the late rounds when he got clipped cleanly a couple of times but for the most part he just rendered De La Hoya ineffective. And as far as guys he didn't face that would have beaten him, the only guys he didn't face that I would have considered to be legitimate threats were Shane Mosley and Kostya Tszyu. One could easily say that these two guys would have beaten Floyd, but maybe Floyd is one of those guys who if truly challenged would have raised his game like the Robinsons, Leonards, and Alis and beaten his opponent. All speculation.


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