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> Anderson Silva vs Griffin
kidbazooka1
post Nov 1 2009, 04:29 PM
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Yes way the guy is one of the only few athletes in MMA who actually fight like a professional athlete. He's cleaned out the MW division and has destryoed two big ass LHW one who beat Rampage Jackson and was the LHW champ just two fight ago.

I've been following this sport since the mid 90's and Silva is the best i have ever seen. And as for his ground game it has improved big time he got his belt from the Noguera brothers and toyed with Lutter who was suppossed to be one of the best on the groundand many picked him to sub Silva yet after he gets subed he ain't all that anymore.

Like i said I believe Silva to this point is the best MMA fighter going. Fedor is no doubt a good fighter but everyone knows the HW division is sorry right now and he has fought some shitty comp as of late. Another thing i don't like about Fedor is the muthaf*cker looks like sh*t when he fights what i mean by that is he strikes like a f*cking bar fighter he's sloppy and all over the place. I feel that if the HW division was a little stronger Fedor wouldn't have the record he has i consider his best win over Noguera who is a very skilled fighter and Crop Cop back when he was a force.

Lets see Silva has beaten....

Sakurai
Newton
Murray
Horn
Franklin 2X
Lutter
Marquadt
Henderson
Irvin
Griffin
Cote

One of his losses was the first fight of his career the other two like i said were suspect and the fourth one was a DQ loss in a fight he was winning easly against Okami.

Silva would whoop both Rampage and Shogun i would put money on that sh*t and if Machida didn't have the belt he would be the LHW champ.

This post has been edited by kidbazooka1: Nov 1 2009, 06:20 PM
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Warlord
post Nov 1 2009, 08:36 PM
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QUOTE (kidbazooka1 @ Nov 1 2009, 05:29 PM) *
Fedor is no doubt a good fighter but everyone knows the HW division is sorry right now and he has fought some shitty comp as of late.


You, sir, are on drugs. Fedor's comp record as of late? He's beaten 2 former UFC heavyweight champions in his last 2 fights. And he's beaten them badly in the opening minutes. And now he's taking on Brett Rogers, one of the fastest rising heavyweights on the planet, and one of the few guys I mentioned a couple weeks earlier of having the potential to beat Brock Lesnar. So no, forgive me if I do not concur with your assesment.

Fedor's comp record (fought and beaten the following fighters)

Ricardo Arona

Semmy Schilt - The only fighter in history to win K-1 World Grand Prix three times in a row

Heath Herring - A top-5 ranked heavyweight when he fought Fedor

Antonio Rodridgo "Minotauro" Nogueira (2x) - Former Pride and UFC heavyweight champion, universally recognized as the second best heavyweight in history. (After only Fedor himself, of course.)

Kazuyuki Fajita

Gary Goodridge

Mark Coleman (2x) - Former UFC heavyweight champion, and Pride 2000 Open-Weight Grand Prix winner.

Kevin Randleman - Former UFC heavyweight champion

Mirko Cro-Cop - Pride 2006 Open-Weight Grand Prix winner.

Mark Hunt - Winner of the K-1 World Grand Prix 2001, first man to (disputedly) defeat Wanderlei Silva in the ring of Pride.

Matt Lindland

Tim Sylvia - 2-time UFC heavyweight champion.

Andrei Arlovski - Former UFC heavyweight Champion

Respond to this with facts and Anderson Silva's comp record won't stack up. I promise. Especially when you start factoring in his losses to C fighters.

QUOTE
Another thing i don't like about Fedor is the muthaf*cker looks like sh*t when he fights what i mean by that is he strikes like a f*cking bar fighter he's sloppy and all over the place.


I actually don't know what you are talking about here. Fedor spent most of his time standing up against Cro-Cop, and he was getting the better of him in their exchanges. He also KO'd Arlovski standing, so I don't know, man. These are 2 of the elite strikers in the sport. Cro-Cop is a K-1 level striker, and Arlovski at least thinks his shit is good enough to parley over into boxing. So you tell me, do those two guys suck shit in the striking department? 'Cause they both got their shit pushed in by Fedor.

QUOTE
I feel that if the HW division was a little stronger Fedor wouldn't have the record he has i consider his best win over Noguera who is a very skilled fighter and Crop Cop back when he was a force.


Fedor has beaten every great heayweight there is to beat. Whose left? Brock Lesnar? That fight will happen. Couture? You guys would shit all over Fedor after he finished wiping his ass with Randy, claiming Randy was too old and shit, yet knowing Randy has been old for nearly 20 years now.

QUOTE
Lets see Silva has beaten....

Sakurai
Newton
Murray
Horn
Franklin
Lutter
Marquadt
Henderson
Irvin
Griffin
Cote


Thanks. Now compare that to the list I provided above. Oh wait, there is no comparison...

Newton < Coleman
Murray < Goodridge
Horn < Lindland
Franklin < Cro-Cop
Lutter < Herring
Marquadt < Arona
Henderson < Nogueira
Irvin < Hunt
Griffin < Arlovski
Cote < Sylvia

QUOTE
One of his losses was the first fight of his career the other two like i said were suspect and the fourth one was a DQ loss in a fight he was winning easly against Okami.


Hold on, my friend, you can't squirt that shit by me.

1.) Silva's loss to Daiju Takase was NOT suspect. Silva got dominated from start to finish (a finish which saw him get triangled.)

(IMG:http://i18.tinypic.com/358xogi.jpg)

2.) Silva's loss to Ryo Chonan was not "suspect" either. He gassed out and, as usual, couldn't deal with the unorthodox approach that many Japanese fighters of that time were using, and thereby got himself caught in one of the most amazing, and hilarious, submissions of all-time... the flying scissor heel hook! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

(IMG:http://i18.tinypic.com/4c8y4wy.jpg)

QUOTE
Silva would whoop both Rampage and Shogun i would put money on that sh*t and if Machida didn't have the belt he would be the LHW champ.

He'd beat Rampage, I agree, because Rampage can't work the clinch.

I actually would pick Shogun to beat Anderson, so you and I can make that bet when the time comes.
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kidbazooka1
post Nov 2 2009, 01:00 AM
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QUOTE (Warlord @ Nov 1 2009, 08:36 PM) *
You, sir, are on drugs. Fedor's comp record as of late? He's beaten 2 former UFC heavyweight champions in his last 2 fights. And he's beaten them badly in the opening minutes. And now he's taking on Brett Rogers, one of the fastest rising heavyweights on the planet, and one of the few guys I mentioned a couple weeks earlier of having the potential to beat Brock Lesnar. So no, forgive me if I do not concur with your assesment.

Fedor's comp record (fought and beaten the following fighters)

Ricardo Arona

Semmy Schilt - The only fighter in history to win K-1 World Grand Prix three times in a row

Heath Herring - A top-5 ranked heavyweight when he fought Fedor

Antonio Rodridgo "Minotauro" Nogueira (2x) - Former Pride and UFC heavyweight champion, universally recognized as the second best heavyweight in history. (After only Fedor himself, of course.)

Kazuyuki Fajita

Gary Goodridge

Mark Coleman (2x) - Former UFC heavyweight champion, and Pride 2000 Open-Weight Grand Prix winner.

Kevin Randleman - Former UFC heavyweight champion

Mirko Cro-Cop - Pride 2006 Open-Weight Grand Prix winner.

Mark Hunt - Winner of the K-1 World Grand Prix 2001, first man to (disputedly) defeat Wanderlei Silva in the ring of Pride.

Matt Lindland

Tim Sylvia - 2-time UFC heavyweight champion.

Andrei Arlovski - Former UFC heavyweight Champion

Respond to this with facts and Anderson Silva's comp record won't stack up. I promise. Especially when you start factoring in his losses to C fighters.



I actually don't know what you are talking about here. Fedor spent most of his time standing up against Cro-Cop, and he was getting the better of him in their exchanges. He also KO'd Arlovski standing, so I don't know, man. These are 2 of the elite strikers in the sport. Cro-Cop is a K-1 level striker, and Arlovski at least thinks his shit is good enough to parley over into boxing. So you tell me, do those two guys suck shit in the striking department? 'Cause they both got their shit pushed in by Fedor.



Fedor has beaten every great heayweight there is to beat. Whose left? Brock Lesnar? That fight will happen. Couture? You guys would shit all over Fedor after he finished wiping his ass with Randy, claiming Randy was too old and shit, yet knowing Randy has been old for nearly 20 years now.



Thanks. Now compare that to the list I provided above. Oh wait, there is no comparison...

Newton < Coleman
Murray < Goodridge
Horn < Lindland
Franklin < Cro-Cop
Lutter < Herring
Marquadt < Arona
Henderson < Nogueira
Irvin < Hunt
Griffin < Arlovski
Cote < Sylvia



Hold on, my friend, you can't squirt that shit by me.

1.) Silva's loss to Daiju Takase was NOT suspect. Silva got dominated from start to finish (a finish which saw him get triangled.)

(IMG:http://i18.tinypic.com/358xogi.jpg)

2.) Silva's loss to Ryo Chonan was not "suspect" either. He gassed out and, as usual, couldn't deal with the unorthodox approach that many Japanese fighters of that time were using, and thereby got himself caught in one of the most amazing, and hilarious, submissions of all-time... the flying scissor heel hook! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

(IMG:http://i18.tinypic.com/4c8y4wy.jpg)


He'd beat Rampage, I agree, because Rampage can't work the clinch.

I actually would pick Shogun to beat Anderson, so you and I can make that bet when the time comes.


C'mon man china chin Arloski got beat easier and quicker against Rogers and Sylvia just got KTFO against an ancient boxer again faster and more brutal than what Fedor did to him. That to me ain't that damn impressive i don't give a f*ck what belt they held.

Goodridge was never nothing special Murray was a far better fighter IMO who cut his career short by his mistakes.

Coleman was done when he fought him.

Linland was/is a smaller fighter who fights at MW you know that.

Herring is a journeymen nuff said.

Arona again another naturaly smaller fighter who fights at LHW.

I already said what i had to say about Arloski and Sylvia that leaves like i said Noguera and Cro Cop as his best wins and i give him that but Anderson has been taking elite fighters out like nothing.

Anderson is a precision puncher with one punch KO power he makes top notch fighter look like sh*t.

Thats why i was hopeing Shogun would beat Machida so Silva can fight for it and add that LHW belt to his collection and further establish himself as the best.





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Warlord
post Nov 2 2009, 03:04 AM
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QUOTE (kidbazooka1 @ Nov 2 2009, 01:00 AM) *
Anderson has been taking elite fighters out like nothing.


And which "elite" fighters are you referring to? Leben? Cote? Griffin? Laughable.

The only fighter on Silva's list that one might even THINK of labeling "elite" is Dan Henderson. At that, Henderson is pushing 40 and past his prime, but still beat Anderson up good in the 1st round of their fight before he gassed out in the 2nd.

Silva's win over Dan Henderson does not equal Fedor's wins over Nogueira, who was PRIME when Fedor fought him. Nor does it equal Fedor's win over Cro-Cop, who was, again, PRIME when Fedor fought him.

I think it's cool you guys like Silva and shit, but dude, he couldn't carry Fedor's jockstrap. All this crap about him being the GOAT is premature horse shit. And no matter how you slice it or dice it, you can never remove that stain of losing to C fighters from Silva's record.

Fedor is the best fighter on the planet today, and his comp record proves it.
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kidbazooka1
post Nov 2 2009, 09:55 AM
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QUOTE (Warlord @ Nov 2 2009, 03:04 AM) *
And which "elite" fighters are you referring to? Leben? Cote? Griffin? Laughable.

The only fighter on Silva's list that one might even THINK of labeling "elite" is Dan Henderson. At that, Henderson is pushing 40 and past his prime, but still beat Anderson up good in the 1st round of their fight before he gassed out in the 2nd.

Silva's win over Dan Henderson does not equal Fedor's wins over Nogueira, who was PRIME when Fedor fought him. Nor does it equal Fedor's win over Cro-Cop, who was, again, PRIME when Fedor fought him.

I think it's cool you guys like Silva and shit, but dude, he couldn't carry Fedor's jockstrap. All this crap about him being the GOAT is premature horse shit. And no matter how you slice it or dice it, you can never remove that stain of losing to C fighters from Silva's record.

Fedor is the best fighter on the planet today, and his comp record proves it.


No but elite figthers in Hendo, Franklin, Marquadt. He dominated all of them.

Hendo was not dominating him he was holding him for dear life for the first five minutes then got choked out in the 2nd.

As for Silva not holding Fedors jockstrap gimme a f*Cking break if fedor had the balls to come over to the UFC instead of fighting in some shitty as org against an unproven fighter he would get his ass whooped.

So f*cking what Silva lost to C fighters earlier on in his caeer so did Manny Pacqiuao, Alexis Arguello and Ray Robinson. That means sh*t what matters is what there doing now and Silva is f*cking dominating the competiton and proven that he is the best p4p fighter in the world and this is not just my opinion but most experts opinion aswell.

Also im no tuffy and personly i can't stand those f*ckers that post at sherdog but many people picked Griffin to give Silva hell. He is a bigger fighter and had juts taken out Shogun beat Rampage and had a tough fight with Rashad and even those who picked Silva to win they never would have thought that he was gonna do it in such quick and brutal fashion. Yet Anderson made him look like garbage and completly annihilated Griffin.
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Warlord
post Nov 2 2009, 08:30 PM
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QUOTE (kidbazooka1 @ Nov 2 2009, 10:55 AM) *
No but elite figthers in Hendo, Franklin, Marquadt. He dominated all of them.


You lost me there, bro. When you referred to Franklin and Marquadt as "elite" you lost me.

I mean, it's my fault you know, I don't blame you. I just made an incorrect assumption.

So umm... yeah. I'm done here. See you around, Bazooka.
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AussieLad
post Nov 3 2009, 04:17 AM
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A spotless record is not a prerequisite for GOAT status, hence floyd, calzaghe, ottke not occupying that slot in boxing. I believe it should be based on accomplishments, and the beast you evolve into, not what you started out as. If he hadnt evolved, and was still relatively the same fighter he once was then those losses can be factored in heavily, but as it stands i think they can be excused considering what he has become

I actually think Marquadt has become an elite fighter, at least in terms of skill and ability, but not accomplishment... not yet anyway. I think he has the best chance of beating silva at MW. Sure he lost the first fight embarrassingly, i think he was overawed. Should he get a rematch, i would think it will be very competitive. He is very well rounded, and not deficient in any area. If it wasnt for henderson, i think he would be a clear number 2 at middle. I seem to recall reading somewhere they are likely to fight for a shot at silva, so the winner of that cements their position in the division

I think its a toss between fedor and anderson at the moment. Fedor needs to fight more often, and some stiffer comp. But overall his past record is great
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Warlord
post Nov 3 2009, 04:33 AM
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QUOTE (AussieLad @ Nov 3 2009, 05:17 AM) *
A spotless record is not a prerequisite for GOAT status, hence floyd, calzaghe, ottke not occupying that slot in boxing. I believe it should be based on accomplishments, and the beast you evolve into, not what you started out as. If he hadnt evolved, and was still relatively the same fighter he once was then those losses can be factored in heavily, but as it stands i think they can be excused considering what he has become.


I would agree to a certain extent. However, I'm just not ready to dismiss two embarrassing submission losses to C fighters, especially when those 2 losses have gone unavenged.

I would like to see Silva against another elite fighter (who is in his prime) before I feel comfortable ranking him as the top P4P fighter in the world today. As I said before, Dan Henderson is the only fighter Silva has faced in the UFC who comes even remotely close to being an elite fighter.

Let him face Shogun Rua, Rampage Jackson, Lyoto Machida (won't happen, but just for instance) Antonio Rogerio Nogeira, or someone of that nature and let's see how he performs.

QUOTE
I actually think Marquadt has become an elite fighter, at least in terms of skill and ability, but not accomplishment... not yet anyway.


Unfortunately, fighters cannot be judged to be great just because they have the skills or ability to be great. Otherwise Zab Judah would be recognized as a top P4P fighter and Mike Tyson would be the undisputed #1 heavyweight fighter of all-time.

QUOTE
I think its a toss between fedor and anderson at the moment. Fedor needs to fight more often, and some stiffer comp. But overall his past record is great.


Greater than Silva's, that's for sure. Much greater.
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AussieLad
post Nov 3 2009, 04:24 PM
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Incidentally, what does everyone think of Barnetts chances vs Lesnar, (if he hadnt fucked up and tested positive for steroids). Solid wrestling, far better striking, better at pretty much everything except brute strength and wrestling. I think he makes a mess of lesnar
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kidbazooka1
post Nov 3 2009, 07:57 PM
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QUOTE (Warlord @ Nov 3 2009, 05:33 AM) *
I would agree to a certain extent. However, I'm just not ready to dismiss two embarrassing submission losses to C fighters, especially when those 2 losses have gone unavenged.

I would like to see Silva against another elite fighter (who is in his prime) before I feel comfortable ranking him as the top P4P fighter in the world today. As I said before, Dan Henderson is the only fighter Silva has faced in the UFC who comes even remotely close to being an elite fighter.

Let him face Shogun Rua, Rampage Jackson, Lyoto Machida (won't happen, but just for instance) Antonio Rogerio Nogeira, or someone of that nature and let's see how he performs.



Unfortunately, fighters cannot be judged to be great just because they have the skills or ability to be great. Otherwise Zab Judah would be recognized as a top P4P fighter and Mike Tyson would be the undisputed #1 heavyweight fighter of all-time.



Greater than Silva's, that's for sure. Much greater.


Ok Warlord you say you wanne see Silva fight more elite fighters yet he destroyed Griffin in one rd who chocked out Shogun and beat Rampage. I know that styles make fight and all but c'mon man you don't wanna give Anderson credit for beating Griffin who many believed was gonna give him a tough fight because of what he did to Shogun and Rampage.

Now i must say im a big chutbox fan Wanderlie is one of my all time favs. I heard the stories about Shogun not being prepared well but Griffin was considered one of the top LHW's at the time with his wins over Shogun and Rampage.

And as for Marquadt not being elite c'mon bro you bring up Goodridge, Herring, an ancient Coleman and Linland as top figher that Fedor beat yet you don't wanna recognize Marquadt and Franklin as elite fighter.

Marquadt is seven times king of pancrase and hold wins over Damian Maia, Gouviea, Kampmann, Horn and several other top fighters.

Franklin was the UFC champ when Silva demolished him and was considered one of the best MW's in the world his only loss prior to Silva was against Machida earlier in his career and he lost a very close split decision to Hendo just a few fights ago.

And so what if Silva hasn't avenged those losses where are those fighters now? Do you honstly believe those guys are better than Silva now?

Alexis Arguello didn't avenge his early career losses neither did Manny, Marquez or Duran does that take way from what they accomplished later in ther careers?

This post has been edited by kidbazooka1: Nov 3 2009, 08:02 PM
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