[Snoop]

But my point is how is THIS situation about RACE?

Merchant suggested that two white guys in Europe would be more popular if they were from Montana, which you pointed out was full of white people.

The common factor there is they're white no matter what. If they were from Montana, they'd still be white.

If he said "if Floyd was from Montana he'd be more popular" okay I could see the point in there being about race.

But this is ....I don't see the RACE aspect to this.

Co-sign. I finally watched the quick 30 seconds that Larry Merchant mentioned this topic and I don't see how this is about race. The Klitschko's are white, at least identified as white, in the simplified spectrum of race. It seemed to be more of an issue of them being "non-American", than implying they'd be more popular if they were white, beecause, well, they already are.

Most of what you're saying, Mr. Factor, I would normally agree with, or at least empathize with, but I just see it as very off-topic concerning this specific situation.

[The Original MrF...]

Correction... Larry said Ranch in Texas or a mine from western pennsylvania. Jim chimed in with Montana or Farm in Nebraska.

[trustfundbaby]

For the 'race' issue, I believe the GIGANTIC vive mexico on the mat was more than a little annoying. Mexico is an awful, corrupt, third world country. Who wants it to 'VIVE'??? Also, the crying was a bit much from A.

This post has been edited by trustfundbaby: Sep 27 2009, 11:11 AM

[The Original MrF...]

Co-sign. I finally watched the quick 30 seconds that Larry Merchant mentioned this topic and I don't see how this is about race. The Klitschko's are white, at least identified as white, in the simplified spectrum of race. It seemed to be more of an issue of them being "non-American", than implying they'd be more popular if they were white, beecause, well, they already are.

Most of what you're saying, Mr. Factor, I would normally agree with, or at least empathize with, but I just see it as very off-topic concerning this specific situation.

Of course they are white. I didnt think that was in question. I think the argument is about IF they were white + american. The argument will never be made IF Lennox Lewis was from a farm in Nebraska or a ranch in Texas. I've said a million times that nationality is an important factor when you are factoring in a fighter's popularity and marketability over here. Race is also a factor. I still think that the ranch in Texas, Montana or Nebraska is alot more likely to contain a white kid versus a black kid. If the Klits were from said ranch, I think they'd be more popular than a black kid with a similar pedigree from Philly. Not just because they are American, but White American.

I dont think this applies to the whole of America. However there are vast pockets of America where this does apply. Those parts are a huge demographic of the US population. They impact marketability and popularity. Are the guys who say I'm wrong denying that racism exists? Are you denying that a White HW champion from Nebraska is not hugely more marketable than a Black HW champ from Atlanta?

[caneman]

Was it just me or did Arreola need to go to his right all night yet never did? I just seen it as something that would pay off for a few reasons! I felt it would have made Vitli's jab be off a bit & Arreola would have stayed away from that right hand! Too bad it won't make Arreola wanna stay in better shape in between fights like I believe every fighter should do! Oh well...what do I know!?!?!?

[The CEO]

When it comes to Nationalism in Boxing, American fans are NOT as nationalistic as other countries' fans.

That is a FACT. End of story.


Normally....a boxer doesn't HAVE to be American in order for them to be our favorite fighter. Ask the typical fans from the other countries if they can say the same...(i.e. British - Hatton/Calzaghe, Filipinos- Pacquiao, Danish - Kessler)


and most of the time, we only get sincerely nationalistic when the other countries' nationalistic, garbage fans bring it out in us...when they make it a them vs. us thing.....on message boards....or when they boo our National Anthem....

Ask Big Slim Sweetness about Mayweather-Hatton for confirmation....he's got a 1st hand story or two for ya...

[alaganza]

If the Klits were exciting to watch they would be popular. Nationality and race have nothing to do with it.

[Jack 1000]

That was a brutal, one sided beat down. Jab, jab, jab,right, move, repeat over the course of 10 one sided rounds. David haye also has no chance. Its going to take a tall rangey guy(like Lennox Lewis) to hang(not necessarily beat) Vitaly.

Vitaly should be ranked P4P. I also think he is better than Wlad. Wlad comes off as very vulnerable. I'm not sure he deals with Arreola's pressure the same as Vit. Vit has great movement. It looks awkward because its still hard to believe a big guy can move like that. He's a great fighter. If he can stay fleet footed, he can probably fight well into his 40's.

I agree with the strategies on how to beat Vitali,

It's gonna take a fighter with a jab that matches or is better than his, PLUS speed and the strength to get inside and get out. You cannot just stand in front of a Klitschko, you have to move, give him angles, give him things to think about, like coming in and setting up the right hand.

It would take a fast inside fighter like a prime Bowe, Lewis, or the pressure of Tyson to really give Vitali problems. Holyfield would also have problems with Vitali because of Evander's size, too small. Vitali would also run the chance of pulling a Bonecrusher Smith against Tyson. It's neutralizing that height of Vitali's. The jab is good on Vitali, but "sloppy." Vitali needs an opponent with quickness and timing with a better jab and combinations. Vitali's jab is much more plodding, but against today's sack of shit heavyweight contenders, he'll get the job done.

And I submit that the styles of the brothers are similar. Vitali is the better fighter than Wlad because he has a better chin. I agree the Klits are boring to watch, but they get the job done.

Jack

[Thegreatequalize...]

i've got to give credit to arreola for coming to fight. he showed a lot of heart in there. i hope he keeps trying. i think he should take a few lower level fights and then try for wlad. his aggressive style would give wlad lots of problems and he would have a good chance to catch him.

i think vitali's performance was very good. he's just a dominant guy in there. as far as him being boring, sure he's not the most exciting, but people said the same thing about lewis and holmes and others. as far as the competition goes, people said the same thing about lewis and holmes and others about that as well. in 5 or 10 years the division will be the same and people will be saying it's the worst era ever and wishing the klits would come back.

[BGv2.0]

They impact marketability and popularity. Are the guys who say I'm wrong denying that racism exists? Are you denying that a White HW champion from Nebraska is not hugely more marketable than a Black HW champ from Atlanta?

Are you F'N nuts?

NOBODY is saying that racism does not exist....of course it does...

And using your example I would say you need to be more specific to actually paint the true picture of the situation...as it is stated above...you are bending it to fit your argument.


it should be..."Are you denying that a awfully boring, unappealing styled White HW champion from Nebraska is not hugely more marketable than an exciting, toe-to-toe engaging Black HW champ from Atlanta?"

Because that is where the true issues stem from.

AND....I'll give you a perfect of example that even has one of your cities listed in it.

1995......which champ is more marketable.....the White corn fed state (not sure if it was Kansas or Nebraska...or some other one) Tommy Morrison OR Black Evander Holyfield from Atlanta?

Morrison had a fan base because of his huge left hook and exciting fights...but it never touched the level of fans the under sized, punch eating prone Evander ever had.

If it was a matter of race in the way you are attempting to argue.....would Morrison's fights not exceeded Evanders in terms of public interest, revenue and any other aspect you can think of?

Your argument does not hold water.

This post has been edited by BGv2.0: Sep 27 2009, 02:54 PM