IPB  

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

 
2 Pages V   1 2 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Fernando Vargas VS Miguel Cotto
Douchebag
post Oct 13 2009, 08:19 AM
Post #1


Junior Middleweight


Group: Members
Posts: 2,165
Joined: 24-October 07
From: I'm at where I'm at.
Member No.: 6,400



Man would this be a war or what? I could see Cotto boxing ability giving him a slight edge especially late in the fight and possibly getting a decision. I could also see Vargas scoring a knock down or two early and winning a decision or scoring a the KO. There are so many ways that this fight could turn out, I just can't call it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PR316
post Oct 13 2009, 08:59 AM
Post #2


Super Middleweight


Group: Members
Posts: 3,316
Joined: 9-April 03
From: South Florida
Member No.: 107



I'm gonna say Vargas. It would be a war for sure and both guys faces would show the effects. But Vargas is bigger, stronger, and a better boxer than Margarito.


I think Vargas stops Cotto in a very competitive fight.


Vargas TKO 10
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
kidbazooka1
post Oct 13 2009, 07:09 PM
Post #3


Super Middleweight


Group: Team BU
Posts: 3,083
Joined: 10-December 04
From: Cali
Member No.: 1,319



QUOTE (Fitz @ Oct 13 2009, 04:49 PM) *
I agree, but I think one of the few things that Margarito had over Vargas that could have been the difference between two fights was that Margarito had a granite chin and Cotto was not able to hurt him. Margarito just kept coming. Cotto is able to hurt Vargas, which I think would be the difference between Margarito and Vargas. I think this is a real pick 'em fight and a great fantasy match up.


Like i stated in the other topic the Vargas from the Quartey fight would be to big and strong for Cotto. though i could see Vargas getting KD aswell i think he stops Cotto late in the fight.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Warlord
post Oct 14 2009, 08:35 PM
Post #4


Junior Middleweight


Group: Team BU
Posts: 2,191
Joined: 1-June 09
From: Shanghai, China (The Shithole of the Universe)
Member No.: 10,313



QUOTE (Fitz @ Oct 13 2009, 04:49 PM) *
I agree, but I think one of the few things that Margarito had over Vargas that could have been the difference between two fights was that Margarito had a granite chin and Cotto was not able to hurt him. Margarito just kept coming. Cotto is able to hurt Vargas, which I think would be the difference between Margarito and Vargas. I think this is a real pick 'em fight and a great fantasy match up.

Pre-Trinidad Vargas never showed any chin problems. I think Tito and his illegal wraps shattered Vargas's chin the same way they shattered David Reid's.

We've seen what happens when both fighters take on plaster-casted opponents, lol. Cotto caves mentally, Vargas doesn't.

I think a pre-Trinidad Vargas probably stops Cotto late. He's too tough, too hungry, and too determined.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
kidbazooka1
post Oct 17 2009, 05:18 PM
Post #5


Super Middleweight


Group: Team BU
Posts: 3,083
Joined: 10-December 04
From: Cali
Member No.: 1,319



QUOTE (Warlord @ Oct 14 2009, 08:35 PM) *
Pre-Trinidad Vargas never showed any chin problems. I think Tito and his illegal wraps shattered Vargas's chin the same way they shattered David Reid's.

We've seen what happens when both fighters take on plaster-casted opponents, lol. Cotto caves mentally, Vargas doesn't.

I think a pre-Trinidad Vargas probably stops Cotto late. He's too tough, too hungry, and too determined.


Yeah pre-Tito Vargas showed a real good chin he took big shots from good punchers without even blinking but after the Tito fight Vargas was getting wobbled by feather fisted fighters.

I really believe Vargas could have accomplished alot more had he not been thrown to the wolfs at such an early age. He had the skills to compete with the top dogs but not the mentality which as we all know in boxing is the most important thing.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Warlord
post Oct 21 2009, 09:43 PM
Post #6


Junior Middleweight


Group: Team BU
Posts: 2,191
Joined: 1-June 09
From: Shanghai, China (The Shithole of the Universe)
Member No.: 10,313



QUOTE (kidbazooka1 @ Oct 17 2009, 06:18 PM) *
Yeah pre-Tito Vargas showed a real good chin he took big shots from good punchers without even blinking but after the Tito fight Vargas was getting wobbled by feather fisted fighters.

I really believe Vargas could have accomplished alot more had he not been thrown to the wolfs at such an early age. He had the skills to compete with the top dogs but not the mentality which as we all know in boxing is the most important thing.

Bazooka, just curious why you say Vargas didn't have the mentality to compete with the top dogs? Is it because he blew up in weight between fights?

You've got to remember that Vargas also had a bad back for most of his career. I think this really prevented him from doing any sort of hard exercises in between training camps. It certainly doesn't justify Vargas getting up over 200lbs; after all he didn't have to eat all the garbage he did. But at the end of the day, I think there is some difference from a Fernando Vargas ballooning in weight, and say, a James Toney. Vargas fought in one weight class for the majority of his career. That's enough for me.

As for competing with the top dogs, Vargas had some solid wins in Raul Marquez and Yori Boy Campas (to become the youngest 154lb champ in history, in only 14 fights), and he went on to beat two legitimate top tier fighters in Ike Quartey and Ronald "Winky" Wright. And again, he beat these guys with less than 20 pro fights. To me, there is little doubt that Vargas had the tools, or the mentality, to compete with the top dogs.

The only thing Vargas didn't have, thanks to Trinidad, was the chin.

Even a busted up, damaged version of Vargas was able to give Trinidad, De La Hoya, and Mosely (in their 1st fight) life-and-death battles before ulitmately succumbing late to damage he could no longer sustain or absorb.

At one point Vargas had all the tools to become an elite fighter, but due to circumstance, it's just something that never quite materialized. But he was still an exiciting fighter who did well for himself and always showed tremendous heart in the ring. And for that at least, he should be commended.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
kidbazooka1
post Oct 21 2009, 11:36 PM
Post #7


Super Middleweight


Group: Team BU
Posts: 3,083
Joined: 10-December 04
From: Cali
Member No.: 1,319



QUOTE (Warlord @ Oct 21 2009, 10:43 PM) *
Bazooka, just curious why you say Vargas didn't have the mentality to compete with the top dogs?


I meant after the Tito loss. He was not the same fighter some fighters come back stronger Vargas in my opinion once he was beaten his mentality changed he no longer had the same confidence he did before the loss.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Warlord
post Oct 23 2009, 12:33 AM
Post #8


Junior Middleweight


Group: Team BU
Posts: 2,191
Joined: 1-June 09
From: Shanghai, China (The Shithole of the Universe)
Member No.: 10,313



QUOTE (kidbazooka1 @ Oct 21 2009, 11:36 PM) *
I meant after the Tito loss. He was not the same fighter some fighters come back stronger Vargas in my opinion once he was beaten his mentality changed he no longer had the same confidence he did before the loss.

I definitely agree Vargas wasn't the same fighter after Trinidad, but I'd disagree that his confidence changed at any significant level. He fought WARS, even after the Trinidad fight. Facing guys like De La Hoya, Mosely (2x) and Mayorga certainly don't indicate a fighter low on confidence.

Vargas's post-Trinidad career:

Against Wilfredo Rivera Vargas went down in the 2nd, and overcame it to win by TKO in the 6th.

Vargas is stunned several times by Jose Alfredo Flores, before pulling out a 7th round KO.

Vargas beats De La Hoya up in Rd 1, is up on the cards after 6 Rds (imo), before finally getting stopped in the 11th.

Vargas goes on a 4 fight win streak, against opponents with a combined recorcd of 151-23. (2 of those fights are at 160lbs, which were above his natural fighting weight.)

Vargas is going life or death with Shane Mosely, before a doctor stoppage occurs as a result of grotesque swelling around the eye.

Vargas looks strong against Mayorga, despite getting knocked down in the 1st and the 11th, which would ultimately cost him the victory.

To withstand as much as Vargas did in those fights, doesn't indicate a fighter low on confidence to me. To the contrary, it indicates a fighter with massive heart, a heart that allowed him to stay in fights he had no business being in in the first place.

I stand by my statement. Vargas had all the tools to be an elite fighter, imo. The only thing he was lacking was a chin, courtesy of Felix Trinidad's loaded gloves.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
kidbazooka1
post Oct 23 2009, 12:56 AM
Post #9


Super Middleweight


Group: Team BU
Posts: 3,083
Joined: 10-December 04
From: Cali
Member No.: 1,319



QUOTE (Warlord @ Oct 23 2009, 12:33 AM) *
I definitely agree Vargas wasn't the same fighter after Trinidad, but I'd disagree that his confidence changed at any significant level. He fought WARS, even after the Trinidad fight. Facing guys like De La Hoya, Mosely (2x) and Mayorga certainly don't indicate a fighter low on confidence.

Vargas's post-Trinidad career:

Against Wilfredo Rivera Vargas went down in the 2nd, and overcame it to win by TKO in the 6th.

Vargas is stunned several times by Jose Alfredo Flores, before pulling out a 7th round KO.

Vargas beats De La Hoya up in Rd 1, is up on the cards after 6 Rds (imo), before finally getting stopped in the 11th.

Vargas goes on a 4 fight win streak, against opponents with a combined recorcd of 151-23. (2 of those fights are at 160lbs, which were above his natural fighting weight.)

Vargas is going life or death with Shane Mosely, before a doctor stoppage occurs as a result of grotesque swelling around the eye.

Vargas looks strong against Mayorga, despite getting knocked down in the 1st and the 11th, which would ultimately cost him the victory.

To withstand as much as Vargas did in those fights, doesn't indicate a fighter low on confidence to me. To the contrary, it indicates a fighter with massive heart, a heart that allowed him to stay in fights he had no business being in in the first place.

I stand by my statement. Vargas had all the tools to be an elite fighter, imo. The only thing he was lacking was a chin, courtesy of Felix Trinidad's loaded gloves.


I see what you mean I never doubted Vargas heart which he clearly had but what im saying is his confidence when engageing to me after the Tito fight he couldn't do the things he did before with the same confidence.

Like i said mentaly he was not the same fighter he still had a huge heart and skill to be competitve with those guys but you could tell he wasn't the same conifident fighter pre Trinidad (which is understandable when only 22 yrs of age and going through such a tough fight) well atleast thats my opinion.

This post has been edited by kidbazooka1: Oct 23 2009, 01:07 AM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PR316
post Oct 24 2009, 09:52 PM
Post #10


Super Middleweight


Group: Members
Posts: 3,316
Joined: 9-April 03
From: South Florida
Member No.: 107



QUOTE (Warlord @ Oct 15 2009, 01:35 AM) *
Pre-Trinidad Vargas never showed any chin problems. I think Tito and his illegal wraps shattered Vargas's chin the same way they shattered David Reid's.

We've seen what happens when both fighters take on plaster-casted opponents, lol. Cotto caves mentally, Vargas doesn't.

I think a pre-Trinidad Vargas probably stops Cotto late. He's too tough, too hungry, and too determined.



First off Tito, didn't have plaster in his wraps.

2nd of all, Vargas had never faced a big puncher prior to Tito. He had fought an inactive Ike Quartey, and he was staggered at one point in that fight.

Other than that, there was nobody who Vargas faced that really tested his chin. IMO, Fernando had a decent but not great chin.

David Reid on the other hand was just GARBAGE... He was never that good, and at one point in his title winning fight against Laurent Boudouani, he was wobbled as well. Reid was all style and no substance even if he wouldn't have faced Trinidad, he would have faced either Vargas or Winky Wright and either would have beaten him down.


But a young Vargas does take Cotto no doubt. It would have been one helluva fight though.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V   1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 20th April 2014 - 05:01 PM