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> Love or Hate Floyd Mayweather? Reasons Why, 1 Topic Merged Here
D-MARV
post Nov 20 2009, 05:40 AM
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QUOTE
By Mark Vester

Leonard Ellerbe, advisor to Floyd Mayweather Jr., told the Los Angeles Times that Shane Mosley would be their prime target if negotiations to make a fight with Manny Pacquiao fall apart. Mayweather is looking for the biggest financial opportunities out there, and the two biggest are Pacquiao and Mosley. Bob Arum of Top Rank and Richard Schaefer, CEO of Golden Boy Promotions [acting on behalf of Mayweather] are going to do their best to make a deal for a Mayweather-Pacquiao bout. Mosley has to win his January 30 welterweight unification with Andre Berto to keep the Mayweather possibility alive.

"If the fight can't be made [with Pacquiao], we'll fight Shane Mosley if he can get past Berto," Ellerbe said.

Negotiations for Mayweather-Pacquiao will be tough. Mayweather wants the bulk of the money, and so does Pacquiao. Ellerbe doesn't seem to care if Pacquiao's pay-per-view with Miguel Cotto lands a higher buyrate than Mayweather's bout with Juan Manuel Marquez. He stands with Mayweather's position of Marquez bringing very little to the table in terms of pay-per-view buys.

"It's no secret the camps don't see eye to eye, but this is bigger than boxing," Ellerbe said. "We understand the magnitude of this."

"The numbers don't lie, people do," Ellerbe said. "[Pacquiao] had good numbers, God bless him, but he had a dance partner [Cotto] this time."
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thehype
post Nov 20 2009, 03:26 PM
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I see Berto being able to accomplish a better strategy than Mayorga did...and if Mayorga can find success, I think Berto's running and clinching could EASILY earn him a decision. I hope I'm wrong, but man, everything about this fight just seems like a setup for Shane to be upset.

I mean, yeah, Shane clobbered Margarito, but Margarito's strategy against Shane was on par with Ricky Hatton's strategy against Pacquiao. On the other hand, Shane didn't exactly put a beatdown on Cotto, Collazo, Jose Luis Cruz or David Estrada. Hell, he was barely even putting a beatdown on Mayorga, who can't box worth a lick.

I'm just sayin....don't be surprised when those scorecards are read.
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Lil-lightsout
post Nov 20 2009, 04:00 PM
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QUOTE (thehype @ Nov 20 2009, 03:26 PM) *
Hell, he was barely even putting a beatdown on Mayorga, who can't box worth a lick.


If that is the case, please tell me how Mayorga outpointed the purely skilled fighter in Forrest in the rematch? I mean you would think Forrest should have easily outboxed Mayorga, but he couldn't. And Forrest was in his prime.

I seriously think Mosley might have trouble at first with Berto's speed and skills. But I just think with Naz, Shane is now at a different level than with his dad. I just do not see Berto being able to take Shane's punches. I guess we will see in 2 months what Mosley we get.
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thehype
post Nov 20 2009, 07:37 PM
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QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Nov 20 2009, 04:00 PM) *
If that is the case, please tell me how Mayorga outpointed the purely skilled fighter in Forrest in the rematch? I mean you would think Forrest should have easily outboxed Mayorga, but he couldn't. And Forrest was in his prime.


He didn't...I actually had Forrest winning the rematch, regardless of what the judges said.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

But that's besides the point. Vernon went in there tentative due to the first fight, giving Mayorga just enough respect to allow him to fight his fight, which is usually an ugly brawl with him swinging wildly and landing some awkward, but effective punches. Surely you're not trying to imply that Mayorga was a more skilled boxer than Vernon Forrest, are you? When Forrest was boxing, he was getting the better of Mayorga....where he made his mistake is when he opted to exchange with Mayorga, which allowed Mayorga to bank more rounds in the eyes of the judges. Just because he won on the scorecards doesn't mean he "outboxed" Forrest.

I mean, I'm not saying that a less skilled fighter can't win a fight...I'm just saying that it's very rare to see a less skilled fighter using his jab effectively to control a fight, which is what Mayorga was actually doing against Mosley.

QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Nov 20 2009, 04:00 PM) *
I seriously think Mosley might have trouble at first with Berto's speed and skills. But I just think with Naz, Shane is now at a different level than with his dad. I just do not see Berto being able to take Shane's punches. I guess we will see in 2 months what Mosley we get.


A different level? Shane's not at a different level. He just actually has a gameplan now when he goes into fights. You can't teach an old dog new trickes. He still does the same stuff he's always done...that flicking jab, the wicked left hook to the body and the overhand right...the only difference now is that he has a guy in his corner who can give him the right strategy to implement. Thus far, we saw that union work perfectly aginst Antonio Margarito...but I mean, it was Antonio Margarito, who isn't exactly the best boxer when it comes to technique. Don't get me wrong, Shane deserves credit for the impressive win, but in my opinion, his performance was helped by the fact that Margarito went right at him without even using his jab. Stick a jab in Shane's face and he gets flustered. It'll be up to Brother Naaz to get Shane to adjust, but I'm afraid Berto's particular style, with his running and clinching, might be all it takes to survive an ugly fight and win a decision.

For everyone who keeps talking about Berto not being able to take his punches....I mean....I really hope you guys are right. I like Shane and all, but the only guys he's stopped or "destroyed" in the past 8 years are Antonio Margarito, Ricardo Mayorga and Fernando Vargas. Think about that for a second. Since losing to Venon Forrest, he's fought 10 different opponents and only stopped 3 of them...1 (Mayorga) in the final seconds of the bout and the other (Vargas) was wrecked before he stepped into the ring. Call me crazy, but I think Berto has an excellent chance of being one of the other 7 guys and going the distance with Shane...and if it goes the distance, don't be surprised to hear those scorecards.
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Lil-lightsout
post Nov 20 2009, 08:35 PM
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QUOTE (thehype @ Nov 20 2009, 07:37 PM) *
He didn't...I actually had Forrest winning the rematch, regardless of what the judges said.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

But that's besides the point. Vernon went in there tentative due to the first fight, giving Mayorga just enough respect to allow him to fight his fight, which is usually an ugly brawl with him swinging wildly and landing some awkward, but effective punches. Surely you're not trying to imply that Mayorga was a more skilled boxer than Vernon Forrest, are you? When Forrest was boxing, he was getting the better of Mayorga....where he made his mistake is when he opted to exchange with Mayorga, which allowed Mayorga to bank more rounds in the eyes of the judges. Just because he won on the scorecards doesn't mean he "outboxed" Forrest.

I mean, I'm not saying that a less skilled fighter can't win a fight...I'm just saying that it's very rare to see a less skilled fighter using his jab effectively to control a fight, which is what Mayorga was actually doing against Mosley.



A different level? Shane's not at a different level. He just actually has a gameplan now when he goes into fights. You can't teach an old dog new trickes. He still does the same stuff he's always done...that flicking jab, the wicked left hook to the body and the overhand right...the only difference now is that he has a guy in his corner who can give him the right strategy to implement. Thus far, we saw that union work perfectly aginst Antonio Margarito...but I mean, it was Antonio Margarito, who isn't exactly the best boxer when it comes to technique. Don't get me wrong, Shane deserves credit for the impressive win, but in my opinion, his performance was helped by the fact that Margarito went right at him without even using his jab. Stick a jab in Shane's face and he gets flustered. It'll be up to Brother Naaz to get Shane to adjust, but I'm afraid Berto's particular style, with his running and clinching, might be all it takes to survive an ugly fight and win a decision.

For everyone who keeps talking about Berto not being able to take his punches....I mean....I really hope you guys are right. I like Shane and all, but the only guys he's stopped or "destroyed" in the past 8 years are Antonio Margarito, Ricardo Mayorga and Fernando Vargas. Think about that for a second. Since losing to Venon Forrest, he's fought 10 different opponents and only stopped 3 of them...1 (Mayorga) in the final seconds of the bout and the other (Vargas) was wrecked before he stepped into the ring. Call me crazy, but I think Berto has an excellent chance of being one of the other 7 guys and going the distance with Shane...and if it goes the distance, don't be surprised to hear those scorecards.


I never said or implied Mayorga was a better boxer than Forrest, but he did WIN the rematch fair and square. And I always hated him then, and wanted Forrest to decapitate him.
My point about Mayorga is that he is a difficult guy to fight. He is awkward, tough, and hits extremely hard. I thought Shane felt his power early on, and was a little hesitant in there. Plus like Shane has already stated, it got stale with his Dad. So I am sure he was not at his best against Mayorga too. Just like his fights against Cruz and Estrada, surely he was not at peak form for those type of guys. Ever see Mayweather-Burton? Think Floyd was at his best for that fight?



Well I consider it a different level if you IMPROVE on your game regardless. Sure it was just one fight, but there is no denying he was on another level that night. No one came remotely close to doing what Shane did to AM. To me and many others, it just seemed that was a different Mosley in there that night. Mosley is going to be a year older from that fight, so I am curious to see if he has another performance like that in him. I like the way Shane talks and acts recently, he makes me believe in him. So until Berto can prove me wrong, I am sticking with Mosley by KO.

There is no denying the fact Shane has excellent power, and by not knocking out many of those guys since Forrest, alot can be said about there toughness and the quality of fighters he faced. And people mainly picking Mosley by KO are also attributing it to Berto's weak chin and lack of big time opponents.

So don't you be surprised when no scorecards are read that night.
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thehype
post Nov 20 2009, 09:33 PM
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QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Nov 20 2009, 08:35 PM) *
I never said or implied Mayorga was a better boxer than Forrest, but he did WIN the rematch fair and square. And I always hated him then, and wanted Forrest to decapitate him.
My point about Mayorga is that he is a difficult guy to fight. He is awkward, tough, and hits extremely hard. I thought Shane felt his power early on, and was a little hesitant in there. Plus like Shane has already stated, it got stale with his Dad. So I am sure he was not at his best against Mayorga too. Just like his fights against Cruz and Estrada, surely he was not at peak form for those type of guys. Ever see Mayweather-Burton? Think Floyd was at his best for that fight?


I don't know if I would compare the "awkwardness" of Burton to the "awkwardness" of Mayorga. Do I think Floyd was at his best for that fight? Maybe, maybe not...but I do think a 23-year-old Floyd Mayweather was much closer to his prime when he fought Burton than a 37-year-old Shane Mosley was when he fought Mayorga. I mean, of course Shane is going to blame his dad for the way he looked...I mean, do you really expect him to blame himself, or his strategy, or the lack of the Cream and the Clear?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I actually thought Mayorga looked LESS awkward against Mosley than he normally looked...he appeared to be doing a much better job of sticking to the gameplan and focusing on keeping his jab in Shane's face. Was he awkward at times? Absolutley, but he was a lot less awkward when he fought De La Hoya...and yet, somehow, De La Hoya was able to ICE him A LOT easier than Shane was. Hmmmm. Interesting.

QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Nov 20 2009, 08:35 PM) *
Well I consider it a different level if you IMPROVE on your game regardless. Sure it was just one fight, but there is no denying he was on another level that night. No one came remotely close to doing what Shane did to AM. To me and many others, it just seemed that was a different Mosley in there that night. Mosley is going to be a year older from that fight, so I am curious to see if he has another performance like that in him. I like the way Shane talks and acts recently, he makes me believe in him. So until Berto can prove me wrong, I am sticking with Mosley by KO.


Again, I'm not saying that Brother Naaz didn't help his performance...but I AM saying that while you think the "different" Mosley was the reason he looked so good, I think it had more to do with the fact that it was a MUCH MORE "different" Margarito in there with him...you know...the one who wasn't allowed to cheat. So I can't really judge how much Shane has IMPROVED given the fact that he pretty much looked like the same fighter that we've been watching. I mean, Shane didn't look any different to me at all in there. He still squints his eyes and bites down on his lip when he throws those bombs...he still flicks his jab out there....basically, he still looked like the same fighter. One thing I can say, without a doubt though, is that Margarito was DEFINITELY a different fighter without his wraps. He never looked confident at all in there (probably because he knew what was going down with the raps) and he just wasn't as throwing as many punches as he normally does. Normally I would attribute that to his opponent being crafty and elusive, but Shane was right in front of him all night. The difference is that instead of being confused and not having a good strategy, Shane knew exactly what the gameplan was and the times when he did start to stray from it, Brother Naaz put him in check and got him back on track. So was Shane on a whole other level? Pffff. I guess if you want to call it that, but in my opinion, he's still on the same level he's always been on...he just has a good strategist in his corner now. Regard.less of the way Shane talks and acts recently, he still looks like the same fighter to me. Can Brother Naaz come up with the right strategy to defeat Berto? Absolutely, but is Shane going to prevent Berto from running and clinching so he can implement that stategy...man...I'm not so sure...not after seeing how easily he let Cotto off the hook. Margarito wasn't trying to run and clinch at all....Berto, on the other hand, will do exactly that

QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Nov 20 2009, 08:35 PM) *
There is no denying the fact Shane has excellent power, and by not knocking out many of those guys since Forrest, alot can be said about there toughness and the quality of fighters he faced. And people mainly picking Mosley by KO are also attributing it to Berto's weak chin and lack of big time opponents.

So don't you be surprised when no scorecards are read that night.


LOL. The funny thing is that the toughness and quality of fighter that you want to give Shane credit for are the same fighters that Berto has faced....Collazo, David Estrada...I mean, I don't know...maybe there is some denying Shane's "excellent power". I would never deny the quality of his chin, but I mean, he was landing some bombs on Cotto and never really did the same type of damage that Manny Pacquiao just did to Miguel. He was landing some bombs on Mayorga too and never got him out of there until the final seconds of the fight, despite Oscar and Tito cracking that chin early in their fights. Of course, I guess we can attribute that with the fact that Shane was never really able to land that powerful of a punch on Mayorga until the final seconds of the round due to his "awkwardness", but even still, to me, that sounds like a problem and so long as Berto is allowed to run and hold, the chances of Shane landing that big punch are slim. Berto isn't going to be standing right in front of him like Margarito, Vargas and Mayorga were doing. If Cotto, Collazo, David Estrada (who Berto stopped) and Jose Luis Cruz, can survive and go the distance with Shane, I think Berto has an excellent shot of doing the same.

If no scorecards are read, I'll be EXTREMELY surprised, but PLEASANTLY happy since, after all, I am a member of the Berto Hate Bus.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Again, don't get me wrong....I'm pulling for Shane BIG TIME...but I have a bad feeling that we're about to Hopkins vs. Taylor all over again...not the fight itself, but the outcome.
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