[Keith]

95 clinches against Cotto... is that not excessive?

Just out of curiosity... where did you arrive at that number? And is that the total clinches or only the ones initiated by Mosley?

How do you count a clinch? Is it anytime the ref has to split you up or just anytime the fighters grab each other regardless of situation?

Has Shane Mosley ever been so much as warned by a ref for excessive clinching/holding?

This post has been edited by Keith: Apr 20 2010, 09:15 PM

[TRU]

Just out of curiosity... where did you arrive at that number? And is that the total clinches or only the ones initiated by Mosley?

How do you count a clinch? Is it anytime the ref has to split you up or just anytime the fighters grab each other regardless of situation?

Has Shane Mosley ever been so much as warned by a ref for excessive clinching/holding?

Miguel Cotto doesn't clinch... period. As in PERIOD.

95 clinches were initiated by Mosley... 15 in 5th round of the Cotto fight.

Watch for yourself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBr__cfEVrA

And yes... Mosley has been warned but never a point taken away. It's inept and/or scared refs that are too weak to make the correct call and deduct points.

Shane holds and LOOKS to hold because he's scared to get hurt badly against like he did in the first Vernon fight. That is not opinion... it is FACT.

[Guest_Fitz_*]

Judge for yourself...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBr__cfEVrA

Non-boxing fans weren't thrilled about the fight. That's how you truly gauge the true intrigue of a fight. Not guys that jerkoff to Mosley's greatest hits on YouTube.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes_anim.gif)

Yeah, a boxing video that YOU uploaded that has a description of "Somebody clinches... somebody doesn't." You already have an agenda, when you have a video like that. Yeah lets use a video that you uploaded that criticises Mosley clinching and then look at the youtube comments to gauge on what 'real' boxing fans are.

Let me pull a video that is intended to bag Mayweather and use all the youtube comments as a benchmark for what 'real boxing' fans are

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes_anim.gif)

By the way, I am neutral with Mosley. He has never been one of my favourites.

[TRU]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes_anim.gif)

Yeah, a boxing video that YOU uploaded that has a description of "Somebody clinches... somebody doesn't." You already have an agenda, when you have a video like that. Yeah lets use a video that you uploaded that criticises Mosley clinching and then look at the youtube comments to gauge on what 'real' boxing fans are.

Let me pull a video that is intended to bag Mayweather and use all the youtube comments as a benchmark for what 'real boxing' fans are

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes_anim.gif)

By the way, I am neutral with Mosley. He has never been one of my favourites.

LOL... did I alter the video?

NOPE. 15 clinches in one round.

Enough said.

[JD]

I agree that Mosley holds excessively.

[TRU]

I agree that Mosley holds excessively.

JACKPOT. Vernon... you are one of the ONLY smart boxing posters online.

[JD]

He ramps it up when he struggles to get his flurries off.

Once Cotto timed him, Mosley would grab constantly. Mosley was able to get back in the fight as Cotto wore down late.

[TRU]

He ramps it up when he struggles to get his flurries off.

Once Cotto timed him, Mosley would grab constantly. Mosley was able to get back in the fight as Cotto wore down late.

I honestly feel as though Cotto started to box more later because everytime he'd press and get close to Shane, he'd get clinched.

I think he adjusted later and decided to box to avoid the clinching as well as possibly being a little bit tired.

[Guest_Fitz_*]

LOL... did I alter the video?

NOPE. 15 clinches in one round.

Enough said.

No you didn't. But I get the impression that you are against clinching period. I think clinching can be pulled off in a good manner. Someone like Ruiz was someone that did it dreadfully, I don't believe Mosley was the case.
For the record, I didn't watch all your video, but saw a little bit. To me, I thought it showed that Cotto is unable to clinch and Mosley can. That is why Cotto was stopped with Margarito and probably Pacquiao, because he doesn't know how survive and clinch.
I think clinching is a problem when it brings down the quality in a fight, I think Mosley still puts on entertaining fights, so it isn't a problem like some of the other fighters.

[TRU]

No you didn't. But I get the impression that you are against clinching period. I think clinching can be pulled off in a good manner. Someone like Ruiz was someone that did it dreadfully, I don't believe Mosley was the case.
For the record, I didn't watch all your video, but saw a little bit. To me, I thought it showed that Cotto is unable to clinch and Mosley can. That is why Cotto was stopped with Margarito and probably Pacquiao, because he doesn't know how survive and clinch.
I think clinching is a problem when it brings down the quality in a fight, I think Mosley still puts on entertaining fights, so it isn't a problem like some of the other fighters.

I can't convince you of what is entertaining and what isn't. Some people like to watch animals fuck... it ain't my cup of tea but that's their form of entertainment.

Great fights in boxing involve little clinching. There has never been a Fight of the Year that involved excessive clinching. Shane Mosley has never been in a "Fight of the Year" or Fight of the year candidate for that matter... there's a reason for it especially for a fighter deemed as so "Exciting".

The original point of this was the fact that Mosley is ruined. Anyone that used to clinch minimally and now clinches upwards of 15 times a round shows that they have serious issues.

It's not a physical example of being ruined but more mentally. His confidence is not there. His primary game was to take shots and dish out his own using his speed and crisp combinations to break down his opponent. He doesn't have the confidence to take a shot anymore hence his relying on clinching to avoid taking flush punches and avoid punishment.

Here is shane before the vernon fight: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXD-KJvjUAI

Here is shane after the vernon fight: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0rUaJrfHAw...feature=related

Night and day...

PS. Oh... and Martinez used clinching against Pavlik in spots. It was close to being the slightest bit excessive but he then turned it up and it's a non-event. But nothing even CLOSE to 15 times a round.

This post has been edited by TRU: Apr 20 2010, 09:52 PM