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> Should HBO do a Super 6?, 140lb division
JLUVBABY
post May 14 2010, 09:11 PM
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QUOTE (thehype @ May 14 2010, 09:15 AM) *
No.

This tournament shit is whack.

Just make the damn fights...no need for a tournament.


i second this statement 100%
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thehype
post May 15 2010, 12:11 AM
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QUOTE (salvador @ May 14 2010, 04:19 PM) *
It's a great idea. All the super 6 guys at 168 have raised their profile and even the losers are probably going to end up richer as a result of it.


Have they raised their profile though? Exactly how many more people know who Andre Dirrell is? Kessler? Froch? Are they going to end up richer? I mean, Abraham may have been able to make a bigger payday against a Pavlik, Paul Williams or Sergio Martinez if he would have stayed put at 160. I think it's tough to say exactly how much their profile has been raised or how much richer they may be. Just because you pin the word "tournament" next to a fight, that doesn't mean more casual fans are going to tune in.
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thehype
post May 15 2010, 12:22 AM
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QUOTE (lloyd mayflower @ May 14 2010, 04:33 PM) *
There SHOULD be no need for a tournament. But we all know just make the damn fights aint how it goes, more's the pity. As of the way boxing is right now, I tip my hat to showtime and the 168 lb'ers to commiting to a couple of years of quality fights against the top opposition and would be happy to see HBO follow suit. Maybe they can look at the super six as a blueprint but try to improve on it somehow. Make it more inclusive, as in the door not being closed to the rest of the division for 2 whole years while the top 6 scrap it out. Not sure how it could work, but hey, thats what those cunts get paid for.


I disagree. I mean, I think EVENTUALLY some of these fights that we've seen probably would have happened by now. Hell, who knows how many fights we may have missed out on because of those guys being locked in for so long. I mean, I know Winky Wright would LOVE to fight anyone right now. LOL. Not to mention, I hear Chad Dawson can still make 168.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not taking anything away from these guys agreeing to all of those fights...they deserve props for that...but this tournament idea...it's whack. Without Bute in it, the winner will STILL be disputed. On top of that, I already think there's been a couple of fights that deserved an immediate rematch to clear up some questions, but unfortunately, due to the tournament format, we won't be getting those rematches any time soon. Plus the whole deal with Taylor being replaced after his first fight...whack, whack and whack!

Again, I'm not knocking the fighters...just the tournament...but I do believe that EVENTUALLY, a lot of these fights would have gotten made anyway because, after all, who else do they have to fight but each other if they plan on making any money?

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Snoop
post May 15 2010, 12:26 AM
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Them being tied down to fights for two years is definitely a downside. It also either limits the ability for new faces to emerge or if they do, invalidates the point of the tournament since no one will be able to fight outside of the 6 contenders. I think the IDEA of a tournament is a generally good, but I think this one in particular is structured poorly.
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thehype
post May 15 2010, 12:42 AM
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QUOTE (D-MARV @ May 14 2010, 05:52 PM) *
I WISH it would be easy to just make the damn fight BUT for some odd reason it just doesn't work out that way. I think the "Super 5+1" as been a success over on Showtime and just thought that HBO would follow up. 140 is loaded and I would love to see all of the different match ups.


Has it been a success though? I don't know. It looked pretty damn empty at Joe Louis Arena when Dirrell and Abraham squared off. I don't know how much money it's costing Showtime to produce all of these events and the documentaries and whatnot, but I sure hope they're making that money back.

Truth be told, I don't know if the "Super 5+1" is such a hot idea for any of these fighters. For the winner...sure...maybe...but let's say Andre Dirrell would have lost to Abraham. That would have been 2 back-to-back losses for a young guy who's just now coming into his own. That's the kind of shit that can derail a career. Fortunately, it worked out okay for Dirrell...for now....but when you lose a fight, it's not necessarily a good idea to jump right back in with a top fighter if there's some shit you need to work on. Sometimes, you gotta slide a tune-up in there, but for these guys, that's not an option.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all about the best fighting the best too, but depending on how a fight turns out, it may not be a great move for the longevity and the marketability of your career if you take 2 back-to-back losses. If Allan Green loses both of these fights....forget about it....he'll be lucky to be back on ESPN. You gotta remember, boxing is a job for these guys, so they have to be very smart about the moves that they make. THAT'S the "odd reason" why some fights don't get made right away...boxing is just as much a "business" as it is a "sport"...while the "Super 5+1" may be enjoyable from a fans point of view, if it was my fighter, depending on who it was, I'd probably pass on it. It's kind of on par with The Contender, in my opinion. Yeah, it has it's positives, but it has a whole hell of a lot of negatives too.

140-pound division doesn't need a tournament...those fights will happen eventually. Boxing fans have to be a little more patient...we always want these guys to fight each other right away instead of letting the hype build up. I think that's my biggest problem with the "Super 5+1"...I'm just not pumped about ANY of these fights. There's just no build-up for any of them. I'm more pumped to see Khan vs. Malignaggi than I am to see Abraham vs. Froch...but hey...that's just me.

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thehype
post May 15 2010, 12:56 AM
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QUOTE (Snoop @ May 15 2010, 01:26 AM) *
I think the IDEA of a tournament is a generally good, but I think this one in particular is structured poorly.


Maybe that's the problem for me...the structure of the "tournament"...you know, honestly, instead of these promoters and networks working together to bring me a "tournament" that's going to crown a winner who will still be considered second best, I'd rather they work together to give me better PPV undercards....hell, just better cards in general.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

On a side note, maybe Golden Boy Promotions can do their own 140-pound tournament featuring Ricky Hatton, Amir Khan, Victor Ortiz, Marcos Maidana, Juan Manuel Marquez, Joan Guzman, Nate Campbell or Juan Diaz.

Fuckin Golden Boy Promotions IS the jr. welterweight division!

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I don't think we'll be seeing a 140-pound tournament any time soon.
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EpTXCHAMP
post May 16 2010, 03:49 PM
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QUOTE (thehype @ May 14 2010, 11:42 PM) *
140-pound division doesn't need a tournament...those fights will happen eventually. Boxing fans have to be a little more patient...we always want these guys to fight each other right away instead of letting the hype build up. I think that's my biggest problem with the "Super 5+1"...I'm just not pumped about ANY of these fights. There's just no build-up for any of them. I'm more pumped to see Khan vs. Malignaggi than I am to see Abraham vs. Froch...but hey...that's just me.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/dntknw.gif)


Hype is there some strings being pulled by GBP behind the curtain. I mean Nate gets signed to be served to Ortiz.. Then khan signs with them...then Maidana pulls out with bradley due to "back" problems seeming to set up a in house khan vs Maidana...hoping bradley and devon beat up on each other since their not with GBP... I guess all these moves at 140 have just been fishy almost as if GBP is setting up a tourney @ 140 that will favor their company with out officially saying it
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salvador
post May 16 2010, 03:49 PM
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QUOTE (thehype @ May 15 2010, 12:11 AM) *
Have they raised their profile though? Exactly how many more people know who Andre Dirrell is? Kessler? Froch? Are they going to end up richer? I mean, Abraham may have been able to make a bigger payday against a Pavlik, Paul Williams or Sergio Martinez if he would have stayed put at 160. I think it's tough to say exactly how much their profile has been raised or how much richer they may be. Just because you pin the word "tournament" next to a fight, that doesn't mean more casual fans are going to tune in.


Dirrell, Kessler and Froch are all getting to fight 3 times as headliners on Showtime and the network is pushing the events bigtime and ESPN and HBO talk about the tourney semi-frequently. For those guys the tourney was a blessing. I'm not sure that any one of those guys would have had three major network fights in their careers except maybe as opponents. If nothing else, they were given the opportunity to make names for themselves. And it's not like there was any demand from the public to see ANY of these guys, particularly Dirrell, Kessler or Froch.

And for everyone else too. With the exception of JT, none of those guys were really names beforehand. Obviously the tourney isn't making anyone of these guys a superstar (other than Ward who might emerge from this on the cusp and then take out Pavlik when it's over to seal the deal), but it is giving them exposure and credibility.

Mostly, it's creating some interesting stylistic matchups in a division that's never really gotten any attention other than from Calzaghe. I think Froch, Abraham, and Ward will all come out of this in good shape at this point win or lose because they are all credible/interesting opponents for a Bute, Pavlik or Dawson.
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EpTXCHAMP
post May 16 2010, 03:50 PM
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QUOTE (EpTXCHAMP @ May 16 2010, 02:49 PM) *
Hype is there some strings being pulled by GBP behind the curtain. I mean Nate gets signed to be served to Ortiz.. Then khan signs with them...then Maidana pulls out with bradley due to "back" problems seeming to set up a in house khan vs Maidana I mean people were saying GBP paid berto some side money to open up Shane for Floyd... I think they are hoping bradley and devon beat up on each other since their not with GBP... I guess all these moves at 140 have just been fishy almost as if GBP is setting up a tourney @ 140 that will favor their company with out officially saying it

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post May 16 2010, 08:17 PM
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QUOTE (salvador @ May 17 2010, 06:49 AM) *
Dirrell, Kessler and Froch are all getting to fight 3 times as headliners on Showtime and the network is pushing the events bigtime and ESPN and HBO talk about the tourney semi-frequently. For those guys the tourney was a blessing. I'm not sure that any one of those guys would have had three major network fights in their careers except maybe as opponents. If nothing else, they were given the opportunity to make names for themselves. And it's not like there was any demand from the public to see ANY of these guys, particularly Dirrell, Kessler or Froch.

And for everyone else too. With the exception of JT, none of those guys were really names beforehand. Obviously the tourney isn't making anyone of these guys a superstar (other than Ward who might emerge from this on the cusp and then take out Pavlik when it's over to seal the deal), but it is giving them exposure and credibility.

Mostly, it's creating some interesting stylistic matchups in a division that's never really gotten any attention other than from Calzaghe. I think Froch, Abraham, and Ward will all come out of this in good shape at this point win or lose because they are all credible/interesting opponents for a Bute, Pavlik or Dawson.


Right on point sal, I'm with you.
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