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> Boxing "What if" game
JLUVBABY
post May 25 2010, 06:40 PM
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JonnyBlaze
post May 26 2010, 02:20 AM
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QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ May 24 2010, 06:08 AM) *
OUCH Spyder! He is still a greater fighter than Mayweather anyway. His record is impressive with names like Coffee, Zaragoza, McCrory, Payakaroon, Zarate, Callejas & Villesana on his resume.


Tyson would have been a much more diciplined & balanced fighter but I don't think anything would stop him from imploding sometime in the future.

How much greater would Benny Leonard be if he had not retired in his prime & lost 7 years?

Steve,Benny probably would be known as P4P the best ever had he not retired in his prime..
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JonnyBlaze
post May 26 2010, 02:22 AM
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QUOTE (The Conscience @ May 24 2010, 12:03 PM) *
He would be top 10 ATG and Pac Man would be scared shitless right about now.


What if Margarito would not have loaded his gloves with bricks against Cotto?

No way Mosley would be a top 10 ATG had he finished Floyd..He still got dominated by Winky and lost to Forrest badly too..
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streetlion1
post May 26 2010, 10:43 AM
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QUOTE (PR316 @ May 25 2010, 03:00 PM) *
For sure.

But sadly, Cotto would have gotten a terrible beating at the hands of PBF. Too slow and lacks head movement.

Its a fight I have always wanted to see whether Cotto got chopped up by PBF or not. I think Miquel would give a better accounting of himself against Floyd than Mosley and Marquez did. His speed is under rated and we all know he can take a beating. The Floyd who stands his ground and comes forward is a whole different animal but I think he did that just as a gameplan for Mosley....not because he has lost his legs like Freddy Roach says. I think Cotto...given his great body punching and underrated jab.....would give a more natural retreating Floyd problems. One thing cotto has hardly ever done even when hurt is tie his man up....hopefully Manny Steward is working on that with him. Floyd isnt gonna let his hands go ala Roidman Pacquiao.....and he isnt gonna load his gloves and stalk Cotto with power shots ala Cheato. Styles make fights....I would still be interested in seeing this fight.

This post has been edited by streetlion1: May 26 2010, 10:46 AM
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JLUVBABY
post May 26 2010, 11:24 AM
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had to chime in on the tyson douglas comments... no way tyson was gonna finish douglas that night... if you go back and watch that fight, yes tyson caught douglas, but the film shows douglas while watching the ref, hits his glove on the canvas in disgust for being caught like he did... he wasnt hurt... tyson is my boy but that fight was a mixture of him taking douglas lightly and not being prepaired and douglas fighting the fight of his life... also, james buster douglas when in shape was a very good fighter... he was just never motivated... the night we watched tyson fight tony tucker to unify the belts thatwould have been douglas that night had he not tired late in the fight vs tucker and got himself knocked out... just saying its easy to call ol james a shit fighter but was he really?... lol...
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PR316
post May 26 2010, 12:02 PM
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QUOTE (streetlion1 @ May 26 2010, 11:43 AM) *
Its a fight I have always wanted to see whether Cotto got chopped up by PBF or not. I think Miquel would give a better accounting of himself against Floyd than Mosley and Marquez did. His speed is under rated and we all know he can take a beating. The Floyd who stands his ground and comes forward is a whole different animal but I think he did that just as a gameplan for Mosley....not because he has lost his legs like Freddy Roach says. I think Cotto...given his great body punching and underrated jab.....would give a more natural retreating Floyd problems. One thing cotto has hardly ever done even when hurt is tie his man up....hopefully Manny Steward is working on that with him. Floyd isnt gonna let his hands go ala Roidman Pacquiao.....and he isnt gonna load his gloves and stalk Cotto with power shots ala Cheato. Styles make fights....I would still be interested in seeing this fight.


A prime Cotto would have at the very least been competitve, cannot deny that.

And though Floyd wouldn't create a "storm" the way Manny did, he'd place enough precision shots to the head and body to hurt Cotto badly late in the fight.

Mosley is just too one dimensional. His approach of trying to load up with the big right hand after throwing the flicking jab is just too easy to figure out and thats why Cotto was able to outbox him with a good jab, movement, and counter punches. It was pretty much a given Floyd would exploit the same mistakes but nobody thougth PBF would be that aggressive.

I do think Mayweather still has his legs, but his style of fighting now does make him more hittable than before now. But its gonna take a fast fighter with quick punches from different angles to have a chance against PBF IMO or somebody tall with a good jab who knows how to use his height and reach. De La Hoya had a little success early but he too fell into the pattern of just following Mayweather around.

PBF-Pacquiao would be interesting and I think Manny has a shot because of his own speed and awkward style but how he takes Floyd's big counter right hands remains to be seen.
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streetlion1
post May 26 2010, 04:04 PM
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QUOTE (PR316 @ May 26 2010, 12:02 PM) *
A prime Cotto would have at the very least been competitve, cannot deny that.

And though Floyd wouldn't create a "storm" the way Manny did, he'd place enough precision shots to the head and body to hurt Cotto badly late in the fight.

Mosley is just too one dimensional. His approach of trying to load up with the big right hand after throwing the flicking jab is just too easy to figure out and thats why Cotto was able to outbox him with a good jab, movement, and counter punches. It was pretty much a given Floyd would exploit the same mistakes but nobody thougth PBF would be that aggressive.

I do think Mayweather still has his legs, but his style of fighting now does make him more hittable than before now. But its gonna take a fast fighter with quick punches from different angles to have a chance against PBF IMO or somebody tall with a good jab who knows how to use his height and reach. De La Hoya had a little success early but he too fell into the pattern of just following Mayweather around.

PBF-Pacquiao would be interesting and I think Manny has a shot because of his own speed and awkward style but how he takes Floyd's big counter right hands remains to be seen.

If Cotto is able to beat Foreman I would love to see him fight Mayweather....I just think Cottos style and body attack would be enough to make it a decent fight......better than a Mayweather-Pacquiao fight IMO. I think the Roidman will give Floyd something to think about as far as speed and the fact that Manny is willing to take a couple to land one but thats it. I see Manny as the same fighter who Marquez dominated at times. I see Manny being the product of good matchmaking fighting guys who were either past it or drained......and after his refusal to do the drug test the first time around I think he may be on something. Floyd just dominated the best welter out there and Freddie Roach and company refused to fight Shane.

Floyds counter right and check hook would land at will against Manny.....I think after rounds 2 or 3 Floyd would settle in and make Manny look clueless....eventually stopping him around 7 or 8. When that turtle Clottey threw...he landed at will.....when Cotto threw his jab and right hand they landed. Floyd is by far the superior boxer and I dont think the fight would be close....hopefully we get to see it. Something just tells me that Mayweather-Cotto would be better though.
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PR316
post May 26 2010, 04:23 PM
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Though Cotto should beat Yuri, I have to say that Foreman though he has a boring style was rather impressive in beating Santos as easy as he did. How well he holds up under the pressure and aggression of Cotto is another matter because I don't think he's ever seen that before. I still say Cotto should win but I'm not sure 154 is his weight. I wouldn't recommend putting him in there against the likes of Sergio Martinez and Paul Williams. Cotto could probably beat Angulo or James Kirkland though. Both of them have alot of flaws. And I wouldn't mind seeing a rematch with Margarito not having loaded gloves.


As far as a fight with Floyd, for me it would depend on how he looks. If he absolutely DESTROYS Foreman, then I think he's an attractive opponent for PBF should a deal with Pacquiao not get worked out. If Cotto just looks workmanlike then I think its best he doesn't and instead take on a few easy fights to build confidence before stepping in there against somebody like Mayweather.


To me its debateable whether Pacquiao is the same he was against Marquez. I personally feel that Pacquiao was a little weak at the lower weights in the last couple of years and needed to move up. I don't feel he's really any faster, but if his punches are harder it makes sense because you get a little stronger as you move up. What Pacquiao has been able to do is maintain his speed and stamina which is the real challenge for any fighter that moves up in weight. Though at 147 I really don't see one punch KO power. What I do see is the old saying that "speed kills". The two knockdowns on Cotto came from weird shots that Cotto just could not see at all, strange angles. Back in the 30s and 40s, Henry Armstrong was doing the same, destroying full fledged welterweights while often coming in at just 138-140 pounds. This has been seen before so thats why I don't subscribe too much to the PEDs theory that Floyd Sr started. Anybody who has boxed can tell you themselves that it takes more than steroids to develop power and speed. Not to mention the ability to deliver accurate punches with proper technique.

To me Pac-Mayweather is far from a given. If there's anybody who's gonna be a threat to Floyd, its gonna be someone whom can give him a look he has not seen before. Pac's straight left can work very well over Mayweather's shoulder roll because of the angle the punch is coming from, much the same as Mayweather's straight right hand on Pacquiao. I think its an interesting fight.
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Mean Mister Must...
post May 26 2010, 05:33 PM
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QUOTE (PR316 @ May 26 2010, 04:23 PM) *
Though Cotto should beat Yuri, I have to say that Foreman though he has a boring style was rather impressive in beating Santos as easy as he did. How well he holds up under the pressure and aggression of Cotto is another matter because I don't think he's ever seen that before. I still say Cotto should win but I'm not sure 154 is his weight. I wouldn't recommend putting him in there against the likes of Sergio Martinez and Paul Williams. Cotto could probably beat Angulo or James Kirkland though. Both of them have alot of flaws. And I wouldn't mind seeing a rematch with Margarito not having loaded gloves.


As far as a fight with Floyd, for me it would depend on how he looks. If he absolutely DESTROYS Foreman, then I think he's an attractive opponent for PBF should a deal with Pacquiao not get worked out. If Cotto just looks workmanlike then I think its best he doesn't and instead take on a few easy fights to build confidence before stepping in there against somebody like Mayweather.


To me its debateable whether Pacquiao is the same he was against Marquez. I personally feel that Pacquiao was a little weak at the lower weights in the last couple of years and needed to move up. I don't feel he's really any faster, but if his punches are harder it makes sense because you get a little stronger as you move up. What Pacquiao has been able to do is maintain his speed and stamina which is the real challenge for any fighter that moves up in weight. Though at 147 I really don't see one punch KO power. What I do see is the old saying that "speed kills". The two knockdowns on Cotto came from weird shots that Cotto just could not see at all, strange angles. Back in the 30s and 40s, Henry Armstrong was doing the same, destroying full fledged welterweights while often coming in at just 138-140 pounds. This has been seen before so thats why I don't subscribe too much to the PEDs theory that Floyd Sr started. Anybody who has boxed can tell you themselves that it takes more than steroids to develop power and speed. Not to mention the ability to deliver accurate punches with proper technique.

To me Pac-Mayweather is far from a given. If there's anybody who's gonna be a threat to Floyd, its gonna be someone whom can give him a look he has not seen before. Pac's straight left can work very well over Mayweather's shoulder roll because of the angle the punch is coming from, much the same as Mayweather's straight right hand on Pacquiao. I think its an interesting fight.


Cotto is too tough for his own good. He should have taken an easy fight at 154 just to test the waters but instead he chooses to take on a challenge. The thing that worries me about Cotto is that he tires late in the fight, even when he dominates it. Foreman showed he can go the full 12 and still be fresh at the end. Then again, like you said, he has never fought anyone as good and complete as Cotto.

I think Pacquiao is a risk for Mayweather and the reason why many people are expecting it to be easy fo Pretty Boy is that, apart from the Castillo fights, he always seems to figure out his opponents after 4 or 5 rounds and completely dominates. I could see Mayweather doing that. Based on what Clottey was able to do against Pacquiao, I say Mayweather would have a lot of success by throwing the straight right hand, making Pacquiao cover up and then continue the attack with a left hook to the body and then a left uppercut. He did a similar thing against Corley and Judah. The bodyshots had those guys's feet stuck to the canvas and Clottey seemed to do a similar thing whenever he attacked Pacquiao. The problem is that Pacquiao came back right away, unlike Judah and Corley against Mayweather. That's why I think a Mayweather-Pacquiao fight would be interesting but I don't have much hope for it even happening.
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STEVENSKI
post May 27 2010, 03:24 AM
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QUOTE (PR316 @ May 26 2010, 10:23 PM) *
Back in the 30s and 40s, Henry Armstrong was doing the same, destroying full fledged welterweights while often coming in at just 138-140 pounds. This has been seen before so thats why I don't subscribe too much to the PEDs theory that Floyd Sr started.


You fucking idiot Armstrong was the original PED user & abuser. How else could he win world titles in 3 (classic) weight classes & getting a dodgy draw against the middleweight champion?
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